Quote from: Kimberly on June 01, 2006, 02:34:47 AM
For me, changing the body is and was a necessity, it is NOT a necessity for every transsexual however.

Hmmm... but is it still transsexualism if one is content with their physical sex and has no desire for physical changes (I realize one may choose not ACT on the desire though)?

I just went to Wiki and pulled out this part of the definition of a Transexual.

QuoteHowever, it is also often accepted (and is also evident in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) that to express desire to be of the opposite sex, or to assert that one is of the sex opposite to the one with which they were identified at birth, constitutes being transsexual. In contrast, some transgendered people, on the other hand, often do not identify as being of or wanting to be the opposite sex, but as being of or wanting to be another gender.

In this section it's seem if you assert ( believe) that you are the opposite gender than you are a transexual. Also the desire to make a transition is also enough to be called a transexual.

So if Wiki is right than "I IS ONE TOO".

Jillieann

Transition may involve as little as living fulltime in the desired role, but it's still transition.

Melissa

Quote from: Kate on June 11, 2006, 07:17:37 PM
Hmmm... but is it still transsexualism if one is content with their physical sex and has no desire for physical changes (I realize one may choose not ACT on the desire though)?

Yup!  Sure is Transsexualism is a state of mind ONLY... When one begins to alter there appearence that is defined as transitioning. 
(Clinically speaking)

Quoteless that I change my body, is the more money that I save.

Whoa.....can anyone guess how much plastic surgery i have!!!LOL
nevermind ill start a poll!

Chynna

Quote from: Chynna on June 12, 2006, 01:55:13 PM
Yup!  Sure is Transsexualism is a state of mind ONLY

True, but I've always assumed that the state of mind HAD to include a discomfort with one's body (and thus a desire to change it, though one may choose not to for various reasons) in order to be considered transSEXsualism. A desire to change roles, while remaining perfectly happy with one's body, seems to be ->-bleeped-<- instead - or even GenderQueer - a bending of traditional roles vs. physical sex.

This is interesting to me, as I've been wondering if it's possible to evolve emotionally to a point where the compulsion for physical changes becomes unecessary, being seen/revealed as a way to prove to MYSELF that I'm female - to give form and reality to something that seems so nebulous, so vague as a "I identify as a female..." inside. To at last be able to point to my body and say, "See? I TOLD ya so!"

I'm not hopeful though, as it seems to be a root-level, biological craving that can't be touched by any amount of emotional epiphanies.

Nicely stated Excellent point Kate!

But you know it depends on the therapist as to which diagonis each of us fit.

QuoteThis is interesting to me, as I've been wondering if it's possible to evolve emotionally to a point where the compulsion for physical changes becomes unecessary, being seen/revealed as a way to prove to MYSELF that I'm female - to give form and reality to something that seems so nebulous, so vague as a "I identify as a female..." inside. To at last be able to point to my body and say, "See? I TOLD ya so!"

Well you already know my personnal opinion on that. My actions & demenor state what gender I am not my body whatever is between my legs is staying between my legs.....But having an amazing rack helps boost the confidence level & get you better service from mechanics ya know!
so its sort kinda of a catch 22.
I was living as a female way before I started HRT ( I was really cute when I was younger! ) Unfortunantly those days are gone!!LOL so for me it was just a question of trying to beat time & Vanity of course!
'

LOL
Chynna

Quote from: Chynna on June 12, 2006, 02:54:34 PM
My actions & demenor state what gender I am not my body whatever is between my legs is staying between my legs...

But it's such a curious thing: I know (genetic) women who are incredibly masculine in their actions and demeanor, and yet they somehow still seem "female" to me regardless. And I live in a town with a high population of effeminate gay men, yet they all still "feel" like men regardless of their behaviour.

I've been trying to track down this "gender" thing for awhile now, and it's like chasing a mischevious ghost. It's just doesn't seem rooted in sex, mannerisms, demeanor... or anything I can put my finger on. It's as if gender is a static *context* through which any mix of male/female mannerisms and physical sex can be expressed without ever changing it. The content changes. The context remains the same.

Kate,
I like your style of thinking....
The females you metioned might always seem feminine to you because no manner what they do you've already made it up in your mind that there Biological females.
Curious question for you.... have you ever meet a butch leisbian or FtM TS's and you still subconciously look at them as a female just because you knew physically they still had "female plumbing" even though they gave off this masculine vibe???Just a curious question.
Most gay men I know do not act like women they act like...well gay men for a  lack of a better description (sorry didn't mean to sterotype anyone)
Ask yourself this question what defines a woman to you? what defines a man in your eyes? Now apply your answers to everyone you refered to You might find some clarification.

Are you trying to establish what gender is? or how one comes to the conclusion that an individual is male or female?

For a while I thought that being a man was having a penis (point blank)
I know now that a man is based on his abilities to handle responsabilities, his word, and his ability to be confident within himself.
Flip the script having a "vagina" or being born female does not make you a woman. it simply makes you female being a woman a true woman is based entirely on her actions,mannerism and demenor.

Gender Identity to me is based primarily 85% perception of the individual you are interacting that in part is based on mannerism, demonor, presence, & vocabulary. the other 15% is based on what you identify yourself as , Body, voice, and finally past experiences you share within your dialogue with that person. Of course thats just the way I see people and they way I evaluate most of my clients who ask me "what they are" or say "I am confused" but never would I say you are _____ Only that person can decide what they consider themselves thus what the world will see in time

thats just my rambling thou it might help you to establish those guidlines for yourself in trying to track down this "gender thing"

Who put the hot in hot n tot....
who put the api in apricot.......
what do they got that I aint got.. courage!
you can say that again!
Chynna
 

Kate, I love this:

QuoteIt's as if gender is a static *context* through which any mix of male/female mannerisms and physical sex can be expressed without ever changing it. The content changes. The context remains the same.

That's exactly the right word - context.  It's the lens through which we sense everything else.  I know that, even when I project masculinity (which I do alot, according to my wife - years of training, LOL), it is coming through a female context - hidden but there - I know it because I can sense it.  I think it's the disconnect between the hidden context that is our gender and our expression in the real world that causes our pain.

Wonderful word, context.  I think you nailed it.
helen

Very interesting.  I seem to vibe female myself.  Even to people I am completely presenting myself as male to tend to treat me as female.  I'm sure it's subconscious, but at least it says I'm doing things right.  Of course being a woman, I suppose it jsut comes naturally.

Melissa

Since were talking about transitioning and if a person doesn't actually change  their physical appearance, I went searching into the Internet, and thsi is what I found:

The term transgender was coined in the 1970s by Virginia Prince in the USA, as a contrast with the term "transsexual," to refer to someone who does not desire surgical intervention to "change sex," and/or who believes that they fall "between" genders, not identifying fully, or strictly, as either male or female.

The term transgender is used to refer to "non-op transsexuals" or "non-op transpeople" — transpeople who live as the gender opposite to their birth gender and, though sexual reassignment surgery is possible, have chosen not to undergo it; sometimes they also choose not to have other medical gender reassignment therapy.

Transsexual people are people who desire to have, or have achieved, a different physical sex from their original physical sex. One typical (though oversimplified) explanation is of a "woman trapped in a man's body" or vice versa. Many transsexual women state that they were in fact always female gender, despite physically being male; transmen feel exactly the opposite.

The process of physical transition for transsexual people usually includes hormone replacement therapy and may also include sexual reassignment surgery (a.k.a. gender reassignment surgery); at least a strong wish for it has to be present to meet the requirement for the diagnosis.

Now it was atually Dr,. Harry Benjamin who coined the phrase "between the sexes" which means that the body is being one sex and the mind (brain) being opposite.

Chynna, I really liked your thoughts: Yup!  Sure is Transsexualism is a state of mind ONLY... When one begins to alter there appearence that is defined as transitioning.  Very good point there. BTW Chynna, how much plastic surgery have you had?

Gina 

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 16, 2006, 06:18:58 AM

Chynna, I really liked your thoughts: Yup!  Sure is Transsexualism is a state of mind ONLY... When one begins to alter there appearence that is defined as transitioning.  Very good point there. BTW Chynna, how much plastic surgery have you had?

Gina 

LMAO
Actually none! *Yet* (The BF would prefer I don't alter my face)
As for my body I tend to shy away from surgeries due to my medical condition
The "socially accepted norm" for TS'S here is to get "pumped" - IE silicone injections
to give you hips, cheeks, breast, butt.......... etc.
Unfortunantly "to me" it doesn't quiet fell right "you can tell the difference between natural "fatty tissue" breast and breast made\filled of silicone."
So for me that definitly aint the route to go...im just fortunate "blessed" to be on a HRT regimate thats given me a 38D chest, one hell of an hour glass curve (I think I already had that thou) and hair more than half down my back.
So my body as far as I am concerned is lets say   
"DAMN - I'm a pretty a__ man!" LOL
My favorite personal phrase I tell myself every morning

but I have this really weird preception of what the woman inside me should look like!
(IE Sista needs some Cologen\Retalin injections in her lips and her nose broken and reset)
but that won't happen until the BF convinces one of his coleagues to take me on as a patient...
I keep a picture of myself on my vanity of me when I was a "so-called" straight man\boy
Just to remind myself of the difference.

I might post it here to give you all a culture shock!
Before and 6 months after


I bring good things to life
Chynna

Hey Chynna, that's good that your BF doesn't want you to alter your face. I really don't see anything wrong with it. I was once sitting at The Bottom Line nightclub with a gentleman, and he repeatedly told me what lovely feminine features I have, so I felt blessed, that I won't have to done any altering myself.

I just like to let everything develop naturally, without going to the extreme of silicone injections. If I can't get it naturally there's always padding. LOL

I hope that I have such good results when I start my HRT regimate as you have.

Chynna, that's interesting that you keep a picture of yourself on your vanity of when you were a "so-called" straight man\boy.  I'm sure that you see the difference, but why torture yourself with your old life? If it were me, I'd get rid of everything that reminded me of that old life and would move into my new life as a woman. My mom has told me that she'll still keep my pictures up in her house, and if anybody were to ask about it, she'd just tell them that he died.

Gina

First of all, I'd like to say that you're a really good writer Gina.  Your femininity really comes through in it.

Second, before considering Silicon Injections, please read this: http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/index.html

Melissa

Thank you Melissa for that nice compliment. I always seemed to think that my writing had more of a feminine edge to it.

Now I was just merely saying that I'd rather let things develop naturally before I'd consider silicone injections.

Gina 

The link was just as much for Chynna as it was for anybody else considering them.  I've never heard anything good about them either.  Natural fat works well for me.

Melissa

Thanks Melissa,

I briefly read through the link on silicone injection, and it looks pretty scary! A lot of risks involved, and it's something that I really wouldn't even consider.

Gina 

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 17, 2006, 09:23:33 AM

I hope that I have such good results when I start my HRT regimate as you have.

Thanks I never thought I was beautiful or attractive...maybe cute once or twice

QuoteChynna, that's interesting that you keep a picture of yourself on your vanity of when you were a "so-called" straight man\boy.  I'm sure that you see the difference, but why torture yourself with your old life? If it were me, I'd get rid of everything that reminded me of that old life and would move into my new life as a woman.

Now you know I like to remind myself of all that I have accomplished when I look at the pic of me has a boy I don't reconize me and I do see the hell of a difference between what I used to look like and what I look like now...Just reminds me the "STRUGGLE" is not in vain.
PSychological thing for myself....I guess

Quoteand if anybody were to ask about it, she'd just tell them that he died.

OUCH! thats kinda harsh... Hey mom im not dead I just changed my appearence Im still the same child you raised! Just prettier!
My momma keeps all my boy pics i recently had a dinner party at her apartment with about 8 of my associates 3 lesbians, 1 gay male, 2 FtM TS's and 2 MtF TS's Has they walked through the hallway leading to the kitchen they noticed pics of my brother... her...and some other guy! LOL
Until they found out the "other guy" was me!!! LOL
Anyway my personal feeling is that no one should forget or be ashamed of thier past or past life...to remember only makes you appreciate your life now and the present even more!

Melissa, thanks for the link boo my BF has been through all the risks he uses that has his logical argument of why I shouldn't

Chynna
PS anyone wanna see the boy pics!? LMAO

Quote from: Chynna on June 17, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
Melissa, thanks for the link boo my BF has been through all the risks he uses that has his logical argument of why I shouldn't

It's your body, but as long as your aware of the risks.

Quote from: Chynna on June 17, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
PS anyone wanna see the boy pics!? LMAO [/color]

Sure.

Melissa

Melissa,

That my dear was a JOKE!

But will consider it

CHYNNA