Warning - Bad case of Nero Behaving Badly ahead





Regardless of the flack I'm going to get for this, this needs to be examined.


When I say androgynes and cissexual privilege, clearly I'm not speaking of androgynes who transgress gender boundaries in an outwardly significant way.
Obviously androgynes who go about with visible tits and beards or who have taken medical steps to alter their bodies to a more gender neutral state are not recipients of cissexual privilege.

Who is a recipient of cissexual privilege?

Androgynes who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.  Androgynes who wax poetic all day long about the wonders of androgyny and the phenomenon of being born of neither or mixed gender,
androgynes who are 'above' such 'puerile' notions as gender, bask in their self proclaimed uniqueness
and yet balk at the thought of allowing their gender any significant outward expression in their everyday lives.

Androgynes who speak with 'authority' on androgyne issues whilst enjoying cissexual and not to mention male privilege in their presentation as the average heterosexual male.

Androgynes so fortunate as to have been born into bodies they find comfortable who s->-bleeped-<- at the attempts of the less fortunate to alter themselves for mere survival.

Androgynes who are not 'out' except to those they preach the gospel of androgyne to,

androgynes for whom their gender is a mere habit to be enjoyed on off days,

androgynes either too shallow or cowardly to live what they preach,

to these individuals I say:

Do not attempt to speak for us to whom our gender is a part of ourselves that will not and cannot be denied, or set aside in favor of cissexual and heterosexual privilege, or taken out for a Sunday drive when we get the urge, for us to whom our gender is a life and death matter.

Shut up until you live it and in the mean time, get another hobby.

If I understood correctly you speak of those who don't appear androgyne on the outside, yeah? 

Quote from: Jörgen on October 18, 2008, 08:53:08 AM
If I understood correctly you speak of those who don't appear androgyne on the outside, yeah? 

Yes and who aren't 'out' in their everyday lives. I'm speaking of those for whom androgyne is a net hobby.

Must be nice for those who have that option.

About the preaching, I thought you meant as in public, not on the net. Oops, my bad. 

What if your self-perception changes so much, you can't physically be whatever you are feeling like on any given day so you decide you'll stay as you are?
(Hope that made sense.)

Quote from: Jörgen on October 18, 2008, 09:31:21 AM
About the preaching, I thought you meant as in public, not on the net. Oops, my bad. 

What if your self-perception changes so much, you can't physically be whatever you are feeling like on any given day so you decide you'll stay as you are?
(Hope that made sense.)

I'm addressing more the androgynes who wax poetic and preach about it but refuse to let it infringe on their everyday lives, who aren't even out to anyone in RL, real time, who wouldn't give up their cissexual, heterosexual male privilege for anything.

Isn't that like being prejudiced against a certain type of androgyne? 

Depends on what they preach too. 

I think this maybe a subtle dig at me.

well i do believe there is cisgender privilege i don't think its right to say net androgynes are privileged.  they are expressing themselves online because they fear to express themselves in public.  there is suffering there, not privilege.

We all benefit from some form of privilege, be we women, men, androgynes, or whatever. Race, class, sex, etc all play a part in addition to our gender identities.

Zythyra

Well as a white, male bodies individual with a good solid lower middle class education (though a working class background) I should be given the world on a plate with brown sauce...(well, more likely houmous for the privileged).

A little odd then that I can't keep even the lowest paid and menial jobs for very long, or that I am turned away from employment agencies without a word, and scowled away from many a fancy club...must be my face.

***

I do have a few advantages though. Very few people point at me as I walk down the street, I do not need to face stares to be myself.

I wouldn't say I am a 'sunday androgyne' though. It is true I have not told anybody...I have not forced through a neutral passport...I do not bore those around me with gender neutral pronouns and I do not make people call me some stupid name like AdamEve. This is because I am a mild, easy going person and want I want more than anything else is a personal connection...To do these obstructive things would get in the way of that possible connection. It would isolate me. I'm an androgyne, not a hermit.

I wouldn't even call it hiding, just a sense of perspective and proportion. I do find receiving letters to 'Mr' a bit irritating, I feel very trapped and confused by Gender: M/F parts of job application forms and I do always tick M.  Not because I am a coward, not because I am shallow, not because it doesn't hurt - but because there are more important things. And being able to afford my rent is one of them.

I do ask my friends and colleagues not to call me 'Mr Stevens' but by my first name. If someone persists after a few reminders, I know they are a wanker. If someone calls me that at an interview, I don't mention it, because I don't want the interviewer to remember me as the nutter who preached obscure corners of gender politics at them... I want that job.

Today I had the first day at my new job. In a shop selling loose tea, teapots and some attractively designed cups, dinner services and stuff. I had an androgyne day...

It included the manly jobs, crawling around attic space warehouses, carrying dusty boxes full of heavy china; feminine jobs, helping a lady my age pick a dinner service for her first ever dinner party, swapping recipes and giggling at kitchen disasters; and jobs that would count as purely neutral, being commanded to 'experience' all the loose tea without drinking it...which involved sniffing in the leaves and feeling it - that sort of tactile curiosity that seems to be inherently genderless.

Now, the  boss was watching me throughout today, and I think my actions confused her...she was confused when i turned up with my dark jeans and purple boots but as I left I reckon she had no idea what to make of me....If my experience at the pub was anything to go by then they might be talking about me. In the pub, it was reported to me that the regulars in the pub having a sweepstake on my general sexuality and gender...I remember one of the more frequent bets being that I was actually a woman trying to be a man.  (Something they knew about because two FTMs were semi-regular).

None of these things are, I think, the actions of a hobby androgyne. But an androgyne who wants to be a part of the society they were born in. A sensible androgyne. A not irritating crazy-sod androgyne.

QuoteShut up until you live it and in the mean time, get another hobby.

I also reckon I live my life as an androgyne more openly than you live yours as a man.

Oh? I'm out to everyone I know. I just haven't had the fortune due to illness and addiction to medically alter myself as of yet.
I've gone by a male name and dressed in male mode as long as I can remember. The only 'girly' part of my presentation is a little mascara which is a personal preference.

I was wrong then. Sorry.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 18, 2008, 02:29:20 PM
I was wrong then. Sorry.

You were wrong because you've never bothered to ask. You were also wrong that this is a dig at you. This is something I've noticed by others all over the net and irks me.

QuoteThis is something I've noticed by others all over the net and irks me.

Examples? 
I like their theories. 

indeed, this so called 'Cissexual Privilege' is one of the hardest things in this whole androgyne thing.

women do not trust you, because with this privalege you have percieved power over them. Any casual chat could be a seduction, and any silly fun and games a front for a dark soul. Talk about 'girly things' and some are prepared to run away blowing a whistle.

on the other hand you have men, this privilege presumes that men have power, as a result men constantly compete to see who has the most of it. Avoid this competition through naivity or lack of interest and men on the whole can't be bothered with you. Talk about 'girly things' and some are prepared to run away blowing a whistle.

this'd leave me isolated and alone. And often does.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 18, 2008, 06:43:47 PM
indeed, this so called 'Cissexual Privilege' is one of the hardest things in this whole androgyne thing.

women do not trust you, because with this privalege you have percieved power over them. Any casual chat could be a seduction, and any silly fun and games a front for a dark soul. Talk about 'girly things' and some are prepared to run away blowing a whistle.

on the other hand you have men, this privilege presumes that men have power, as a result men constantly compete to see who has the most of it. Avoid this competition through naivity or lack of interest and men on the whole can't be bothered with you. Talk about 'girly things' and some are prepared to run away blowing a whistle.

this'd leave me isolated and alone. And often does.

Then why do you embrace it?

i don't.

Posted on: October 18, 2008, 06:49:08 pm

---

if you were in the same situation, what would you do?

Pretty much same as I'm doing now. I venture to say I actually come off more androgyne in my daily life than most real androgynes.
I am someone with a very female look who goes about with a man's name and whose behaviour is so contrary to their appearance that within less than a hour of chatting with me, most strangers start relating to me as and even commenting on the fact 'I'm like a man' despite a very female appearance and body.

and how is that different from what i do? or what most people do?

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 18, 2008, 07:01:48 PM
and how is that different from what i do? or what most people do?

You hide behind cissexual privilege. You do not present in RL or even in your videos (cept the occasional display of sitting in a dress like a linebacker) as anything other than a typical male. You dress male, you look male, you behave male. You wish to be seen as one thing on the net and another in real time.
In real time you present as a typical albeit quirky hetero man. You wouldn't part with your cissexual, heterosexual male privilege for anything, not even your own identity.