Quote from: Saraloop on October 19, 2008, 08:35:59 PM
hmmm.. is there alot of kinds of androgynes ?

I thought I was maybe one but I dunno anymore if there's some kind of weird standard that's more than the definition.

nah no standard. this is just a typical 'Nero behaving badly' thread.

My suggestion is that we read EVERY post in this thread before responding to it from this point on.    Nero's already apologized and cleared up the matter, so no one should still be confused over it.  

Just a polite message of peace from Jaimey. 

*gets off soapbox*

I wrote a song for Nero:

Old King Nero
was an emotional old soul
and an emtional old soul was he

He called for his pipe
and he called for his ho
and he called for his androgynes three (the holy trinity of androgynes - Rebis, Pica and Zythra I thinks)

fiddle diddle
fiddle with his diddle
went the androgynes three 

Quote from: Nicky on October 20, 2008, 07:00:40 PM
and he called for his androgynes three (the holy trinity of androgynes - Rebis, Pica and Zythra I thinks)

LOL

Quotefiddle diddle
fiddle with his diddle
went the androgynes three 

BTW, I actually play fiddle in real life 

Z

I just want to thank Nero for this thread, oddly.

In challenging me, and voicing some of my own fears about myself (is this real? am i playing? am i hiding from myself?) I feel much strongerer and confidenterer. And also less didactic.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 21, 2008, 08:54:31 AM
I just want to thank Nero for this thread, oddly.

Coming late to this, me too. The middle of the thread wasn't very nice, but despite the tone the start gave some food for thought and the more recent posts have been a nice save for the nastiness in between. Anyway.

Sure, I have cissexual privilege and male privilege. What one has to keep in mind, though, is that it's not as simple as that: all these privileges are not on/off things but instead relative and very situational. There are some contexts where there is a definite female privilege -- say, when a couple goes to see a midwife, or in a lot of feminist discourses. Male and cissexual privileges are just the most egregious ones from our point of view, and the most basic ones with regard to everyday life.

The privileges have their flip side too. My biggest issue all along has been the people who expect me to use the oh-so-wonderful male privilege, and there have been several cases where my refusal to be 'male enough' has been a problem. Similarly, in the past year or two I've come to see cissexual privilege as a personal straitjacket, and while the thought of losing it is scary, it has also been liberating to make an attempt at not worrying about it. Just like it has been a relief to not worry about losing transsexual privilege in these forums.

The key issue here is to realise that this complex web of privileges exists -- it does, and there's not too much we can do about it -- and try to live so that the various privileges have as little effect on one's personal behaviour as possible. In other words know the big picture but be true to oneself, I guess.

  Nfr

sorry to bump this one up, but...

I was the clear recipient of this privilege the other day. A lady assumed I was the manager, and that the manager was the dogsbody. There was a little racism mixed in too though, cos the manager is asian.

I have been with a woman doing some work and the person we talk to directs all their conversation to me.   Funny because she was the leader. I took all my cues from her.

Both men and women have done it.

Quote from: Rebis on November 10, 2008, 11:24:30 AM

I have been with a woman doing some work and the person we talk to directs all their conversation to me.   Funny because she was the leader. I took all my cues from her.

Both men and women have done it.

Indeed.  I am somewhat ashamed to say that I have pulled that stupid act that many girls do to keep from getting in trouble.  I just acted like I didn't know I was doing something wrong.   

  <--wrong response. 

The last time I can remember being the recipient of this privilege was helping one of the other tech support agents with a tough call. She put the user on hold to explain the situation to me, then conferenced me in.

As soon as the the user heard D___ speak, the user began to read her the riot act. As soon as the user heard me speak, she changed her tone of voice entirely. Here was a woman treating another woman poorly. I even told the user that I was the call of the long hold delay because I needed D___ to explain the details of the issue to me. The user was perfectly compliant with me, D___ was certain because of my male name and voice.

It sucks. I didn't ask for this privelege. But, I certainly didn't as for D___ to be treated like garbage, either. I felt really bad for D___, because she did everything correctly and this user still just let her have. I get on the line, and suddenly everything changes.

Sheesh, some people suck.

Isn't it ironic how women can be so misogynistic and condescending toward one another? And they don't even realize it.

Quote from: Nero on November 10, 2008, 05:34:51 PM
Isn't it ironic how women can be so misogynistic and condescending toward one another? And they don't even realize it.

It seems totally bass-ackwards. I was absolutely blown away. But, that certainly seemed to be the case. D___ sure felt that way.

Quote from: Nero on November 10, 2008, 05:34:51 PM
Isn't it ironic how women can be so misogynistic and condescending toward one another? And they don't even realize it.

Oh my god.  I don't like women.  And that's exactly why.  For most women that I have known (not all, of course), even their best friends' are enemies.  I've been back stabbed and turned on and just had crazy things said about me over nothing by women.  Needless to say, I am very distrustful of most women.  They are vicious. 

Quote from: Jaimey on November 10, 2008, 05:42:01 PM
They are vicious. 

I know, that's why I like em.

Fly my pretties, fly, fly! :

I dunno. While I'm sure I've received privilege in my life, I'm certain I've taken more flak for being who I am.

Quote from: 6thsomatic on November 10, 2008, 08:56:37 PM
I dunno. While I'm sure I've received privilege in my life, I'm certain I've taken more flak for being who I am.

True that.

But I have seen some added privilege for myself though. Being included as 'one of the girls' in a group of girls, being considered less-threatening when picking up my daughter from her creche, my opinion counting when it came to female fashion, my opinion counting when it came to male fashion, inducing a protective response from other men, people talking to me in my phone counselling role because they assumed I was one gender or the other, dogs that hated men did not seem to mind me, having a certain street cred amongst hippies and activists for challenging boundaries...damn I hate hippies.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on November 10, 2008, 05:31:59 PM
It sucks. I didn't ask for this privelege.

Yes. Besides being so b*dy unfair, the obvious cases also do wonders to one's self-doubt: there's always the nagging feeling that people listen to me just because they see the lack of hair on my forehead, not because they hear the arguments coming from inside that forehead.

I don't think I'd like it any better if others had that kind of privilege over me, of course, but I'm not at all sure I'd like it any less either.

  Nfr

We can't use the word "bloody"?




Rebis,


verging on thread jack.

cos it gets messy.

Not if you keep it in tubs and glasses like you're supposed to.