I'm surprised to see the category androgyne used so prominently on these threads. I've never met someone who said they are androgynous tho I've met lots of genderqueers.

What's the difference? Is there a difference? I have my idea, but it sounds like people here use it more loosely.

Androgyne doesn't have the suffix "queer".

That's why I prefer it anyway.

I don't know what the difference is. I assumed they were interchangeable.

Quote from: Sophie90 on December 27, 2008, 01:57:15 PM
Androgyne doesn't have the suffix "queer".

That's why I prefer it anyway.

I don't know what the difference is. I assumed they were interchangeable.

I see. That's one reason I DO like genderQUEER.

Quote from: Ephilei on December 27, 2008, 02:15:01 PM

Quote from: Sophie90 on December 27, 2008, 01:57:15 PM
Androgyne doesn't have the suffix "queer".

That's why I prefer it anyway.

I don't know what the difference is. I assumed they were interchangeable.

I see. That's one reason I DO like genderQUEER.

Hmm, well, in the UK declaring yourself "queer" is a fasttrack to eating lunch by yourself in the corner.
It's not a word with positive connotations.

Quote from: Sophie90 on December 27, 2008, 02:19:41 PM
Hmm, well, in the UK declaring yourself "queer" is a fasttrack to eating lunch by yourself in the corner.
It's not a word with positive connotations.

I agree. Symbols have whatever connotation we give them. People using "genderqueer" are giving queer a good connotation.

Does that mean the difference is just political?

ive always thought they were interchangeable.  though some people seem more like one than the other.  picapica for example sems like an androgyne because ze is so cool and laid back.  seems like queer is too "loud".  me on the otherhand... im pretty ->-bleeped-<-gy and RAWR and weird so i think genderqueer or just queer fits me pretty well.

I don't know, to me androgyne seems more an equal and subtle mix of male and female identity, while genderqueer seems more malleable and has a much more overt presentation. I'm crawling out on a flimsy limb here, mind you.

Mina.

I have a love/hate relationship with the word "androgyne" as it seems to me to inadvertently reinforce the binary (andro + gyne).

But, I dislike genderqueer because of the suffix "queer." The dictionary definition of "queer" either implicitly or explicitly describes something that is wrong.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/queer

Non-binary gender variant is a mouthful, but it's a term I prefer. That, and genderflux.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on December 28, 2008, 10:05:05 PM
But, I dislike genderqueer because of the suffix "queer." The dictionary definition of "queer" either implicitly or explicitly describes something that is wrong.

Agreed, don't like that definition.

Maybe i'm like popeye. I am what I am LOL.......

Quote from: Chet on December 27, 2008, 09:51:18 PM
ive always thought they were interchangeable.  though some people seem more like one than the other.  picapica for example sems like an androgyne because ze is so cool and laid back.  seems like queer is too "loud".  me on the otherhand... im pretty ->-bleeped-<-gy and RAWR and weird so i think genderqueer or just queer fits me pretty well.

Yeah, I always kinda thought of genderqueer as androgyne with the volume turned waaaay up.

Yeah, I never liked genderqueer, it does seem loud and trying to call attention to itself instead of being just 'there'.

But that is probably because of people I've met.  Most of the queer people i know have had me weighed, judged and found wanting, it seems you have to follow a very strict code to fit in, and i don't really do strict codes.

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 29, 2008, 01:57:13 AM
Yeah, I never liked genderqueer, it does seem loud and trying to call attention to itself instead of being just 'there'.

But that is probably because of people I've met.  Most of the queer people i know have had me weighed, judged and found wanting, it seems you have to follow a very strict code to fit in, and i don't really do strict codes.

you don't fit in with genderqueers? why? i'dve thought you would.

they were whiny queeny wankers

ah. yeah and you're not queeny; just whiny.

absolutely

I've never heard the word "queer" used for positive connotation.  Even when used by self-described "queers", it's used in the way that racial slurs are used by members of the given race.

Personally, I prefer specificity in definition, but if I had a more difficult-to-explain label I'd probably feel differently ("genderless" rolls off the tongue rather nicely).  Although I will say, "androgyne" does sound really cool.

I prefer androgyne for myself. Seems gentler, less confrontational than genderqueer. I also like using non binary gender variant, however it is a mouthful. I should probably just tell people I'm from another planet though, any of these terms tend to elicit a similar response, as in WTF is this Z person talking about anyway. 

Z

Quote from: Pneumonica on December 29, 2008, 03:49:23 AM
I've never heard the word "queer" used for positive connotation.  Even when used by self-described "queers", it's used in the way that racial slurs are used by members of the given race.

Personally, I prefer specificity in definition, but if I had a more difficult-to-explain label I'd probably feel differently ("genderless" rolls off the tongue rather nicely).  Although I will say, "androgyne" does sound really cool.

To me, queer is (to quote dictionary.com): "strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular".  There is no inherent value judgement in there.  Negative value judgements are added to the word by people who think being different is bad.  To me though, my gender is different, odd, unusual... so what?  Variety is a good thing, we're all different anyway regardless of what categories a single aspect of our existence fits into.  To me it's a neutral term. 

I guess the term can be seen as confrontational, because it's confronting the idea that being outside the norm is a bad thing.  The only downside to me using the term to describe myself is it may lead people to think that I identify outside the binary solely for activism purposes.  Anybody who gets to know me though will know that that's not the case at all.

I don't identify as androgyne as I don't feel many of the definitions of that term I've seen (including the one for this forum) particularly resonate with me.

Quote from: Andra on December 29, 2008, 09:33:12 AM
To me, queer is (to quote dictionary.com): "strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular".  There is no inherent value judgement in there.  Negative value judgements are added to the word by people who think being different is bad.  To me though, my gender is different, odd, unusual... so what?  Variety is a good thing, we're all different anyway regardless of what categories a single aspect of our existence fits into.  To me it's a neutral term. 

I guess the term can be seen as confrontational, because it's confronting the idea that being outside the norm is a bad thing.  The only downside to me using the term to describe myself is it may lead people to think that I identify outside the binary solely for activism purposes.  Anybody who gets to know me though will know that that's not the case at all.

I don't identify as androgyne as I don't feel many of the definitions of that term I've seen (including the one for this forum) particularly resonate with me.

I guess I don't see my gender identity as "odd." It's just who/what I am. Why should that be odd? And, why should I accept the notion of what others consider to be odd?

I prefer a non-confrontational stance, as being confrontational has not served me well thus far. I understand that others are able to pull it off quite well. Confrontational attitudes and stances put me off, though.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on December 29, 2008, 10:20:22 AM
I guess I don't see my gender identity as "odd." It's just who/what I am. Why should that be odd? And, why should I accept the notion of what others consider to be odd?

I prefer a non-confrontational stance, as being confrontational has not served me well thus far. I understand that others are able to pull it off quite well. Confrontational attitudes and stances put me off, though.

The vast majority of people in western culture are binary identified.  Being non-binary therefore fits the definition of odd.