Hi Everyone,

I just found this forum, and really like the open nature of this forum. So I took the step to register and share you some of my thoughts.

I'm born male, but always wished to be female. Been to a gender therapist from my 13th till me 17th. Been on androgyns but didn't continue taking them because I was still too confused about everything. (however i'm ofter thinking about buying them online again because they made me feel better). Basically I've wished to be a girl since as long as I can remember. (Memories go back till about 5 years old). I seem to be able to able to function in life as a male when it comes to social contact and business/work, but when it comes to dating girl I like I'm getting stuck with myself.

As you see my sexual orientation seems to be more towards girls. (Although I noticed that things change a bit when being on androgyns for a while). My approach to dating seems to be the more female way. For some reason I'm usually not directly attracted to females by their appearance, but when I talk with a nice girl for a while, and I feel a connection Im sometimes getting interested. But it always feels somewhere in between of liking someone and becoming girlfriends.

It feels awkward to "Conquer"  a girl. I just can't do it the way other guys do. I can't just go over to a conquer a girl with empty and slick sweet talk. So basically, since im' not approaching girls nothign happens. Then other things buzz trough my head as well. It feels that when I'm going out with a girl who doesn't know about my inner self that everything is fake. And I hate being fake that way. I dont like disappointing others, and I feel that its not right to date a girl and put her up with all my T-Issues. Maybe that's my protective nature.

I know i'll have a lot of issues to deal with. I'm not even dating anyone right now and i"m already worried about a lot of things. Like; i'd hate ever getting married, since I want to be wearting the white dress, instead of the grey suit. That'd be a reason for me to never get married, since I already know it's going to drive me mad.

I'm feeling stuck. I dont feel like dating anyone I like because I dont want to hurt them. I want kids some day; so transistioning isn't the wisest thing to do. My career is going well ; and dont want to ruin that either.

So it seems that the gender issues are going to convict me to be alone when it comes to true partnership / being a couple, dream about ever being a real girl, drown myself in the career and practise ignoring all issues as much as I can for as long as I can.

Hope this still makes sense to you. Just wanted to share and see how you guys/girl handle issues like this.

Welcome!

Hi Kim, welcome to Susans.

Boy,  dating.  I know what you mean.  For me I just did not date in my Teens and twenties.  period.  Of couse this was long ago in the dark ages but the feelings were the same.  It's a pretty common theme. 

Take care

Beni

hi kim, welcome!

I feel the same way you do about dating girls. I think i've realized that it hasn't ever been about sexual attraction TO women but more about an admiration OF women. i've never been with a man, but i've always had a sense of attraction to "hawt" men but have never pursued anything because I didn't ever consider myself a gay male.

don't feel stuck though, no one says you have to be dating. I've only been out with 1 girl in the last 5 years and I don't feel sorry for myself or trapped.

transistioning wont stop you from having children, yours or adopted. there is no shame in adoption, in fact I have a strong admiration for those that adopt. you can also bank sperm in case one day you find yourself with a woman or surrogate mother.

I would think if you are upfront and they are willing to deal with your problems, then that's fair, I've never met a woman without a bunch of her own that you will have to put up with.  Love is a two way street and all that.

you say you were on Androgynes,  ummm you don't want to take those if your MtF. 

Welcome to Susans.

Thanks your all your quick replies! With androgyns I meant anti-androgyns . I've been on Lucrin for a while to be more precise.

The quote "I think i've realized that it hasn't ever been about sexual attraction TO women but more about an admiration OF women." from eliza beth struck me. I do recognize this. This looks more like an idol / fan situation. I do think I like girls that I see as a role model.

Isn't it really strage to find a girl specifically that does the thing you cannot do? And you'd like to be?Sounds like a strange (but probably true) situation.

With the way I am now, I'd be the "boy"friend and girlfriend at the same time.  Any experience how girls usually handle this? If you have a too much girl-girl relationship, isn't it to be expected that a girl is "missing" something in the relation?

About transistioning. I think that comes to the biggest dilemma as usual. In my opinion i'm too masculine build. My face etc isn't square (and somewhat soft) but i got a somewhat athletic build from nature. With too much muscles. Even though I did a lot to avoid developing the male muscles , i'm still somewhat masculine build.

Basically, if i would transistion, I want to become a woman and not a transsexual by appearance. (No pun intended there, but how I feel). I think people will see it too quickly, making me neither male or female in that sense. That's my dilemma ever since I considered transitioning.

Although sometimes funny things happen. When I'm skiing or wearing a thick coat sometimes people perceive me as female. Last week when I was in the line for the ATM, I heard a lady say to her kid : Wait behind that lady there.  (Referring to me). That made me smile.  I was not in any drag there. That happens so now and then. (Until they see the face in full probably).

Quote from: eliza beth on December 27, 2008, 09:02:51 PM
i've never been with a man, but i've always had a sense of attraction to "hawt" men but have never pursued anything because I didn't ever consider myself a gay male.

From your profile I understand you went all the way with transisitioning. So this would not make you a gay male but a hetero female now. Did your sexual preference change after transistioning? To me it looks like, if you change your physical gender, and that's in place, it could change your sexual orientation as well. Right?

Quote from: Kim_R on December 28, 2008, 06:25:13 AM

Quote from: eliza beth on December 27, 2008, 09:02:51 PM
i've never been with a man, but i've always had a sense of attraction to "hawt" men but have never pursued anything because I didn't ever consider myself a gay male.

From your profile I understand you went all the way with transisitioning. So this would not make you a gay male but a hetero female now. Did your sexual preference change after transistioning? To me it looks like, if you change your physical gender, and that's in place, it could change your sexual orientation as well. Right?

I'm still in the early stages of my transition, so I actually have a long ways to go

Kim,

Your story is freakishly like mine. I know exactly what you mean about being uncomfortable with being expected to "conquer" a girl. Like you, I want to be honest, so I've only dated occasionally. I did tell one GF about my TG issues, and she dumped me. I'd also like to be some gal's boyfriend and girlfriend at the same time! Although it might be easier if I do that sequentially, rather than simultaneously. 

And, yes, if I ever did get married, I'd also want to wear the white dress rather than the grey suit. Although I'm pretty hazy on who'd be standing up there at altar with me, and I don't want to look too closely.

The only difference is that I've never done anti-androgyns, and I'm 60, so I'm probably further along this road that you.

Quote from: Kim_R
So it seems that the gender issues are going to convict me to be alone when it comes to true partnership / being a couple, dream about ever being a real girl, drown myself in the career and practise ignoring all issues as much as I can for as long as I can.

Yup. That's exactly what I've done. I can testify that it's possible to survive that way. And in my case, most of that was before I found internet support groups like this.

Also, remember that drowning yourself in work is a hell of a lot better than drowning yourself in a bottle! The worst that can happen is you'll get rich.

The only other advice I can offer is that if you want companionship, get a cat or a dog. Or maybe several. Seriously! They give you unconditional love, they'll snuggle up next to you on a cold night, and they'll accept you for whoever, or whatever, you are.

And they won't make snide comments that you're too old for miniskirts.

Quote from: eliza beth on December 28, 2008, 06:46:40 PM

I'm still in the early stages of my transition, so I actually have a long ways to go

Wow Eliza beth I think you're already really pretty on your profile picture! I admire people who have the courage to go all the way.  As soon are you're full time i'd guess you'd like guys more? Did you already notice changes in the way you perceive the other gender? I can imagine it's still a bit scary.

MarySue; you're right. I am a bit younger. (I just turned 26 several days ago). Your reply is quite a bit cynical, but acually made me smile and laugh. I did date a girl once, who had a crush on me. I told her about my TG feelings. Her reply was : If you become a woman, i'll just turn lesbian.   That made me feel on top of the world. Eventually it turned out she had issues handling it. Now she got another boyfriend, just became a mum, and we didn't see each other for years.  That was a sad moment there. 

Nice thing is that I ran into her a few weeks ago; we met up and had a great dinner together. And she got me a manicure for the both of us as a birthday present (Smile).

I'm not really sensitive to addictions.  (Ok; i'm always speeding with the car, which got in my trouble) but I never had issues with any other addictions.  I did drown myself into work a lot though.  It has been good for my career, and now also  more indepence. Generally i'd say I have a lot of things going for me in life. I can't really complain if you look from it that way. But the thing I really want ; i cannot get. And that's being a girl ofcourse.

Some while ago a thought kicked in. Could it maybe be the case, that there are some T* people that want to become what they love? Maybe part of this can be explained that way. That you love girls, and you want to be one because of that.  I'm not saying this is the case or true, but it just crossed my mind and I wanted to share it. It would explain why you cannot sexually bind to and conquer the girl.

I got to get some sleep now. It's almost 3am.  GOod night everyone!

Hi Kim,

On the being / looking too male thing, IE you look like a guy so you could never be a girl. .... We all thought that.  Lord knows I felt that way, I knew I would never make it as a girl.  Oddly enough I was wrong.  You would be surprized where I started from and I'm twice your age.  HRT can do magic with appearance. 

Take care

Beni

Hi Kim,

The great thing about life is it keeps getting more complicated as you get older. I'm now 50 and still struggling with my issues pre-HRT etc, although I have a wife and children. So maybe I'm not the best person to be giving advice, but I will anyway....

From your background and the way you are thinking, you are going to find it hard to find happiness. (I could be wrong, but it sounds like you may also be an only child?)

I really think you need to find your way back to a therapist for "open" discussions if you can.

This is a great place for support on specific issues as they arise, but it sounds to me like you need to get some 1 to 1 time in, and make some decisions about your medium term future before it's too late.

If we get ourselves into a relationship, then working to build a family can help keep our feelings in check until we are older, but they don't go away.

It sounds to me like you are comfortable sitting on the fence...but it sounds like that fence is in the middle of the freeway with life will passing you by on both sides.....

You need to jump down on one side or the other and start walkin' to satisfy your heart as well as your pocket, just don't stay sitting there too much longer.....

Please forgive me, but it has to be said..



Chrissty

I've been a bit busy for the past few days. It's 3:30am already, i'll give you a reply tomorrow!

Quote from: Kim_R on December 29, 2008, 07:46:01 PM
Wow Eliza beth I think you're already really pretty on your profile picture! I admire people who have the courage to go all the way.  As soon are you're full time i'd guess you'd like guys more? Did you already notice changes in the way you perceive the other gender? I can imagine it's still a bit scary.

Thanks Kim, that's very sweet
I guess I can't say for sure until it happens, but I'm pretty sure I will find myself attracted to men even more when I finally go full time. that's not to say that I wouldn't be open to a relationship with a girl if the right situation came along though.

I've noticed a difference in how I've perceived gender, but I don't really think it has anythign to do with being trans, I think it just has to do with maturing as an individual and putting all of life's experience to use.

Hi Chrissty,

In general I'm an optimist and a happy person. Even though I can have my moods, and the gender issues kept  me down for year, I seem to be able to live with it for now. I'm acually not the only child. I have one younger brother.

I have spent a few years with a therapist. Her name is Karin, and I really enjoyed talking to her. At first we talked about gender a lot, but soon it became more a regular talk about all the things I was doing in daily life. (I was already quite an entrepeneur, so new things happened every week).

During that time I spend  many many nights reading every detail I could find about ->-bleeped-<-s, crossdressers and transsexuals.  I ordered multiple books, got my mum the book "mum, I need to be a girl" from Just Evelyn. I was pushing my edges. Wearing transparent nailpolish to school (with sometimes, still some remains of a purple nailpolish I had).  In the beginning I thought I was a crossdresser, but quickly found out I felt more in place with the transsexuals.  I don't want to be a queen, I just want to be a girl, just like my female friends.

I have been fighting my feelings a lot during that time.. eventually I just gave up on the fight. I didn't know where else to talk to about her. I felt that I had all the knowledge to make a rational decision; but I wasn't able to decide.

Eventually I turned 18, and had to leave the youth clinic where Karin was working.  I only visited the adult center to get a medial check and more anti-androgyns, but didnt make any new appointments after a few months. Basically, I dont know what I'd like to get out of talking to a therapist.

Lots of things happened when my parents found out.  My mum was happy she finally knew what was going on with me,(and got me my first own black dress) and why I didn't sleep at night. We decided my dad couldn't handle it, so we didn't tell him.

After a while the therapist phoned my mum on her cellphone, and my dad was next to her. He overheard the conversation and he drove home like crazy to see me and to get it out of my head.

My grandma phoned me to get out of the house ASAP, so I took my stuff and took the bike to a friend. Later that night I returned; and my dad messed up my room and was only saying what people would thing, that everyone would call me a freak, she male etc... He told me he wanted me to take more testosterone .. basically ; just a terrible talk. 

That moment was a long term break between me and my dad.  We didn't speak anymore; and sometimes we acually had physical fights about it. But around that time I was stronger and usually won.   He lived in the garage for 6-7 months, and I lived upstairs with my mum and brother.   Eventually we started to talk little by little and just pretended there was no issue.

I hid every TG aspect of my life from him, and we do get along now again.  Even though I'll never trust him with my inner feelings.   About a year after we had the terrible finding out from him, i was about to go to a local cafe with a female friend. That female friend knew all about me. I wanted to suprise her. So I was applying a bit makeup. But really discreet so not many people would see it.  A very soft shade of lipstick, some fine mascara, bit blush, nailpolish, and my dad came in while he was supposed to be away all night.  He told me I looked like a freak; and I took everything off.

This was one very important point in my life.  I still feel like a freak when I apply makeup.. I like feeling like a girl at night, in the dark, but I dont dare to do anything more public than that. I even never talk to my mum about my TG feelings either. It's totally hidden from my family.  I only talk about it with my niece, one female friend and my best (male) buddy.

Why I'm telling you all this? I think to give a bit more insight why I am at the point where I am now.  I already knew what was wrong at age 5.  Didn't tell anyone in the world until 13, and at the point of coming out, and being at the most fragile and sensitive point in my life, my dad just destroyed all the guts I got together.

Now my moment of happiness is at night. I dress up every night. I dont want to wear male stuff at night. Usually I take a loose dress; or an easy top with a basic skirt. For me it's the best way to wake up, realize it, smile. Stay in bed for too long, and then rush off to work.

If i'd ever get a relation with a girl; this is going to be strange. Either I'd really have to get used to wear anything male, or the girl has to get really used to me sleeping in a dress.

I've had so much stress in my life. First Gender, then school, later on hard times with my own business, that I acually dont mind being on the fence and taking things easier. I still have no clue about the next steps though. 

Right now the plan is to continue expanding my business, and see when I get stuck. Still dreaming to be a girl and trying to be on the edge with feminine traits and still function als a male entrepeneur.

Quote from: eliza beth on January 02, 2009, 01:47:34 AM

I've noticed a difference in how I've perceived gender, but I don't really think it has anythign to do with being trans, I think it just has to do with maturing as an individual and putting all of life's experience to use.

Hmm.. I always felt more attracted to girl.. but after I was on anti-androgyns I really started to get more feelings for guys. Maybe it's all mental. That when I accepted myself as more female, things started to make more sense. I'm not attracted to gay guys, but I like the feeling when I got a big strong guy around me, so I feel smaller and get my own space to feel fem.

Still makes sense?

Hi Kim,
Thank you for such a detailed reply, I will apologise if my original post came across a little blunt.

I've thought hard about this, but again I think I owe you an honest response, rather than try to just gloss over the subject.

To be successful in modern business amongst other things you need to be single minded, have a clear set of objectives you want to achieve.
From the way you have responded, you needs and feelings are interfering with these important traits.

I believe if you can address your GID issues head on now, you have a better chance of success in your life.
That does not necessarily mean "physically" doing anything, but just working out where "you" need to be going to be happy, and factoring your life goals into your personal business plan.

Simply making money is rarely enough to satisfy the human spirt.

Still, it's your decision, and whatever you decide to do, I wish you well !



Chrissty

HI Chrissty,

Thanks for your personal msg. (I couldn't reply to you, since my profile doesnt seem to allow me to send personal messages).

Do you really think a gender therapist will help there? Acually; I always wanted to talk to other people with the same issues. About 10 years ago I had email contact with Anna, an MTF transsexual. For some reason our contact quit and I haven't had any contact in  a long time.

We probably have good local support groups here, but I dont feel ready to be "public" like that. I could go talk to a therapist.. I'm acually feeling relatively well now. Dont you think a therapist is more useful if I would be in distress?

In business I like to develop others.  If I make people happy, i'm happy. So in that sense avoiding the gender issue seems to work. Although it's present every day. I notice it in little things. If my mum introduces me to people as her "son" that annoyes me.  A few months ago I was on  a cruise, and everyone took salsa lessons.  As soon as I had to "lead"  as the male, i quit. Too confronting.  Same thing at school with gymnastics. As soon as they started to seperate tasks between guys and girls, and let me do the guys things; i just left class and sneaked out.

I also noticed the gender stress increases during hollidays.  Or to name the cruise as another example; when we had the formal nights for dinner; and all girls are dressed up really nice in designer dresses, and I'm wearing a stupid suit I feel pretty depressed.

Hi Kim,

You need to make 1 more post on the forum to make the magic 15; and then you get the key to the washrooms....No you actually get pm rights, image upload , profile editing etc...

It really doesn't matter how you deal with your issues, I'm just suggesting that they seem so strong that they need to be addressed if not resolved....So they go on your private "to do" list, get reviewed and get some targets assigned along with the business.

You will find some people here who have identified where they are going that are of a similar age to you,  and have put plans in place for 3 or 4 years time. It's another way of coping and it could prove more positive in your position.

Chrissty