I went to one of my favorite restaurants in Dayton for lunch today in male drab mode along with my biological sister.  Shortly after our waitress seats us at our table and gives us our menus I can't help but overhear whats going on at the table behind us.  I look over and there are these two ladies minding their own business when I hear their waitress come over and say in a nasty voice "We are sorry but we don't serve men in dresses here."  "We want the both of you to leave our restaurant now."  Almost immediately everyone in the restaurant started looking at this couple like they were freaks.  It just turned my stomach inside out to where I lost my appetite after I witnessed this.  I could not believe this restaurant's staff could be so cruel to TG people and their SO's.  I was so mad it made me almost want to go over to that waitess and bitch slap her across her face for outing these poor humiliated ladies right in front of everyone, but I kept my cool and told my sister that I just lost my appetite and I think we should leave.  It wasn't long when this lady and her lady friend walked out the door with total embarassment written all over their faces.  I felt so bad for them.  My sister and I left the restaurant shortly afterwards and will never go back there again.  The thing that really got me was both ladies looked very convincing and were wearing pretty outfits, but yet their waitress still made it a point to out them and humiliated them in public anyway.  Anyone ever have a similar experience? 

Shannon

No, but I would have made it a point to the manager why I was leaving.

Melissa

Is that even legal?

just reinforces my theory "People suck!!"

legal? ican't imagine so, I know really upscale places can give you crap for not fitting the dress code, but I'm assuming this is just yer regular ol' restaurant, call the better business bureau on them, im sure its not legal.

Hi everyone,

Unfortunately in most places in the US, the trangendered community is not protected from discrimination in public accomidations.  "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", being the mantra under which discrimination occurs. There are a few states that do not allow this, along with cities such as NY and Los Angeles, that also do not permit this type of discrimination.

Here in CA we are protected from discrimination in housing and we are protected from "harrassment", but the law excludes "verbal only" harrassment.  The way the law reads, I beleive that such an act, here in CA, would be unlawful.  I personally have never had any trouble, even though I am not passable for the most part.

It's really sad to think that there are people that think they are somehow going to stop transsexualism with discrimination.

Love always,
Elizabeth

That's insane. I would've raised holy hell if I'd witnessed the same thing. Personally, when I experience discrimination from some ignorant S.O.B., I try to turn it around on them... not necessarily the discrimination, but the criticism. Someone can't tell whether I'm male or female? I ask them if they're suffering from a lack of education. Granted, I'm not an MtF, but if I were, I can imagine myself in that position (of the woman in the restaurant) responding with something like, "Excuse me? I have no idea what you're talking about." I could carry it through to the extent of threatening a lawsuit for slander. Maybe the law doesn't protect transsexuals, but it does protect people... and slander is slander, regardless of sexuality, gender, etc.

Rafe

Is this a chain restaurant, we're talking about, or some family-owned business? Cause if it's a chain, I want the name and address so I can send their home office a letter that will also be forwarded to the Better Business Bureau.  Illegal or not, it is horrendous customer service and I personally want as many people in as many higher up places to know that I won't stand for it.  I think that most of us should be doing something to express our displeasure with any establishment that treats TS this way.  Power is in numbers and the squeaky wheel gets the oil! Nothing will change so long as nobody complains about it.

If it were me I would've made sure that the manager (and most of that restaurant) knew why I was leaving and I would've left that bitchy waittress a nice little tip. On a napkin. It would have said: "Here's your tip: Next time, remember to close your mouth before you put your head up your ass."

I pass fairly well and if someone challenged me, I would respond "Excuse me?"  I think that would fill them with enough doubt to backpedal.  Well, discrimination is illegal where I live anyhow, but I've never had a problem in a public place the whole time I've been transitioning.  Maybe that's why I haven't seen a a display like this before.

Melissa

About par for the course in Ohio.

I think this is illegal and should not be tolerated.  I would appreciate it if you could provide me with the name of this restaurant.  You may send me a PM to do so.  This type of unjustice must be stopped at once!!!


tinkerbell

I am writing a letter to the CEO of this restaurant chain to let him know what happened today at this location.  I told him in my letter to him that I also plan to write a letter to the Better Business Bureau too if there is no action taken.  I have written him before many times and he is a really nice guy.  I have to say he does follow through when there is a problem at one of his restaurants.  I am not sure if the staff at this location had a problem with one of these TS's using the Ladies Restroom or if the manager or waitress there just wanted them to leave.  With his reputation on the line, I am sure the CEO will have a talk with that manager and waitress and will get to the bottom of this once and for all.  I will let you know what the CEO has to say.  He has always sent me a reply before to let me know how he has resolved the problem and he does keep his word I have to say. 

Shannon

If you've had to write that CEO many times before, I'm surprised you were still even going to that restaurant to begin with.  Yikes!  If something bothers me enough to write to the head of a company I don't usually return to that place of business.  You have the forgiveness of a saint!

I have complained before about the service at their other locations.  One time our waitress was too busy talking to her boyfriend that it took 20 minutes of us waiting around at our booth just to get our check so we could pay and leave.  When I brought this up to the CEO, he apologized and sent me a coupon for a free dinner there for two the next time we went.  I later found out that waitress got fired over this incident.  That location has since gotten a new manager and its much better now.  I still eat there all the time and the service is now top notch.  It does pay to complain sometimes.  This is the first incident that I have ever seen at their Dayton restaurant location.  I would have normally stuck up for these ladies but there were some rednecks at the bar that were much bigger than me and I felt that I was completely outnumbered.  I certainly did not want to make the situation any more worse for those ladies than it already was.  I felt the last thing these ladies needed was an all out braul going on all around them. 

Shannon   

           What company is it?  Which restauraunt? They need more than one letter and they need to be outed in public just as Denny's was because of their treatment of African Americans.





beth

Quote from: beth on July 15, 2006, 11:47:52 AM
           What company is it?  Which restauraunt? They need more than one letter and they need to be outed in public just as Denny's was because of their treatment of African Americans.





beth

Agreed!

Chaunte

Shannon,

Regardless of the reply from the CEO, please write a letter to your State and Federal senators and representatives about the incident.  All too often they say, "We don't know of any harassment in our state."  You can probably do so on line.

Robyn

Quote from: reikirobyn on July 15, 2006, 08:13:26 PM
Shannon,

Regardless of the reply from the CEO, please write a letter to your State and Federal senators and representatives about the incident.  All too often they say, "We don't know of any harassment in our state."  You can probably do so on line.

Robyn

Good idea Robyn.  I will take your advice and send our State and Federal senators and representatives a letter too about this incident along with one to the Better Business Bureau.  I think I can send them online.  I think what may have caused this whole incident to occur in the first place was when one of these ladies used the Ladies Restroom.  Not sure if one of the patrons or staff complained to the manager about this or what exactly made the waitress out these ladies in public.  Like I mentioned earlier I only overheard the waitress saying "We do not serve men in dresses" and asking them to leave. 

Its too bad our country can't seem to adopt what Brazil is now doing.  They just passed a bill down there recently to provide public restrooms for transgenders at all the major venues, bars and resturaunts.  Maybe someday our country will follow their lead and do the same here so situations like this won't happen anymore.   

Shannon

Quote from: ShannonI think what may have caused this whole incident to occur in the first place was when one of these ladies used the Ladies Restroom. 

If this is indeed the case then this may cloud the whole issue.  At the risk of inflaming members, (well I'm sure that this WILL inflame members) but I'll just point out that if the person in question was a CD who was trying to look like a woman then I can see where the management may have been upset and it may also have been the result of one of the other female patrons complaining to the manager when they encountered a man in the ladies washroom.  I don't think we got the complete story.  Personally I feel that even if you are a letter carrying TS, and it's your right, unless you pass very well you should stay out of areas such as washrooms and change rooms, you're just asking for trouble for yourself.  And I believe that CD's should stay out of the opposite gender washrooms completely.  Am I being narrow minded and prejudicial maybe.

Bash away...

Steph

Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 16, 2006, 02:28:32 AM
I got run out of a restroom once. It was extremely embarassing.  The security guy came in the restroom. That in itself was bad enough. It was one of the worst nights of my life.  I was so ashamed.

It is not fun.

Cindi

What???  I'm assuming this was a long time ago (as in years...), please say it was....because I'm already having a cow about Shannon's story... seriously...I'm so ready to fly to Ohio and slap that waitresse's face that you have no idea...



tinkerbell

Quote from: Steph on July 16, 2006, 01:49:21 AM
Personally I feel that even if you are a letter carrying TS, and it's your right, unless you pass very well you should stay out of areas such as washrooms and change rooms, you're just asking for trouble for yourself.  And I believe that CD's should stay out of the opposite gender washrooms completely.  Am I being narrow minded and prejudicial maybe.

I don't think that's being narrow minded or prejudicial, I think it's being impractical.

If I'm out en femme and I really need to go to the toilet (I do try to avoid it) there may be a chance for embarassment if I get outed in the ladies room but I think there's a greater chance to being assualted if I go to the men's room looking like that.  It, unfortunately, becomes a choice between the lesser of two evils.

I think it's the same dynamic (with possibly less serious consequences) in changing rooms.

The Transgender Law Center has released a good document on this very subject: http://www.transgenderlawcenter.org/pdf/pipguide.pdf  It's a big file but very informative, speaking directly to this issue.

helen