Just think it is all sad really.  To somehow think because of the way you happen to look gives you more rights than someone else who doesn't look that way.  But that is most of the world opinion anyway.  I view us all the same, passing or not, a woman is a woman.

I still don't get the "I don't want to be seen as a transsexual, but I'm gonna post many topics and or pics on a forum dedicated to transgendered/transsexuals".  It just leads me to wonder if you are all just trying so hard only to convince yourselves of your own womanhood.  I don't feel it's something I have to prove to anyone.

Really, I could care less if you call yourself a transwoman, a woman, or a freaking ape monkey man from outer space.  Whatever makes you happy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  It's nice to not care what other people think.  Maybe one day everyone can find that inner peace.

Because "trans..." is a label you can choose to wear or not. It's an invention by and for psychologists to express their morality about gender and define abnormal people to control their lives. Some people like it as a definition because it's all there in the DSM and SOC's for them to show people who they are, "See, it's says I am..."

In reality, post-transistion women (or men) aren't trans anything, because even by the definition there is no conflict or confusion. And those pre or in transistion are just going through a process to fix the body and get on with their life. We're all just part of the diversity of normal human expression and behavior.

While there is a biological basis for our physical,gender and sexual indentity, it shouldn't be used by psychologists to imply some stigma or morality to maintain some social order. And yes, I'll be civil. You have your view and I have mine.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on February 23, 2009, 10:33:02 PM
First, I don't believe in the reality of linguistic categories like "man" or "woman." They're just convenient shorthand that allow us to communicate. But because of that, because these terms come from a need to communicate, it's important how other people view my gender. And right now, most people see me as simply a man. That inner sense of my gender and what my gender ought to be is just one voice among countless others. It's an important voice, but that's it.

So as long as I'm presentling mostly as a male, being able to say I'm transsexual or transgender or just trans (I really don't care, and use them in different contexts -- they're just words anyway) is my lifeline, the way that I can negate the perception that I'm a man without it really mattering what anyone else thinks. I'm looking forward to being able to leave that behind, but for now I can't deny everybody else's experience of my gender and declare myself a woman.

I guess what I'm saying is that identity is something that we build through community, gender included. So now I'm working on reconstructing my identity within my community. When I'm done with that I'm sure I'll have a different point of view.

~Alyssa

Great post Alyssa!

Myself, I identify as human. I happen to have a disconnect between my physical and mental gender. That isn't so much an identity as simply a description of my internal reality.

Where identity is useful is to build community with others who might share similar experience. Hence, when I identify as transgender and/or androgyne, I see it as a way to connect with others, either for political purposes, or to offer and receive empathy for this sometimes isolating situation.

Z

Quote from: Ashley315 on February 24, 2009, 12:14:29 AM
Just think it is all sad really.  To somehow think because of the way you happen to look gives you more rights than someone else who doesn't look that way.  But that is most of the world opinion anyway.  I view us all the same, passing or not, a woman is a woman.

I still don't get the "I don't want to be seen as a transsexual, but I'm gonna post many topics and or pics on a forum dedicated to transgendered/transsexuals".  It just leads me to wonder if you are all just trying so hard only to convince yourselves of your own womanhood.  I don't feel it's something I have to prove to anyone.

Really, I could care less if you call yourself a transwoman, a woman, or a freaking ape monkey man from outer space.  Whatever makes you happy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  It's nice to not care what other people think.  Maybe one day everyone can find that inner peace.

I'm afraid you may have to get used ot that....


Passing DOES = more rights... 'passing privilage' or 'cis-privilage' that nobody sees you as gender variant.... to someone who aims to pass, that is an advantage, and does offer more ease of living over not passing. Thats not  Ego... thats fact hon.  If you think its not, i wonder where you keep your head...

At some point, when I was old enough to finally understand (as best I could), I realized that I'm a woman.  The topic came up some years ago (elsewhere) about thinking like a woman.  I was asked "how do I know I'm thinking like a woman?".  My reply was something like "how else would I think?".  Anyway, I'm a woman, but I accept that society sees me as a man, or transgendered, transsexual, or whatever.  It's simply the way it is.  I really don't spend time lamenting on this.  I do hope that when I fully transition that I'll be seen simply as a woman, nothing less. Society labels everything. Perhaps I'm just too simplistic, but I have really important issues to ponder, like hrt, rlt, srs, and getting down to a size 10...

Quote from: Rachael on February 23, 2009, 09:26:34 PM
Does living as a student for 3 years at college make me a student forever?

I'm afraid it does seem to. As soon as people here you were a student much is expected of your interests, temperaments, habits and background. Some universities and courses can also never be lived down.

I actually think that the women here are women and the men are men, because I  work on the presumption that not only do they know best, but the brain is the best and most accurate seat of personality and identity. Of course the fact that you transitioned implies that the brain was not the be all and end all for yourself, you had to modify your body to match. That is where the transsexual history comes in.

Tink sums it up best in her signature,
one bit bothers me though.
I agree with the statement, she didn't transition to a special gender status that includes a spectrum. However I would say she was always on this spectrum, as cis-gendered individuals are and she just nudged her body to get closer to her brain. That she has a female identity, a female self, but a transgendered body.

A person might not identify as chicken pox, but chicken pox leaves little permanent scars that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Quote from: Rachael on February 24, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
I'm afraid you may have to get used ot that....


Passing DOES = more rights... 'passing privilage' or 'cis-privilage' that nobody sees you as gender variant.... to someone who aims to pass, that is an advantage, and does offer more ease of living over not passing. Thats not  Ego... thats fact hon.  If you think its not, i wonder where you keep your head...

Can we please remain devoted to conversation rather han jabs? This is what elicits flame wars. The inability to just respond to something without the personal suggestions that if someone disagrees they have their heads poked into places heads don't normally fit.

You are quite aware of that, Rach. That passing does involve a certain amount of privilege is undeniable, but it's not everyone's holy grail. I don't think that makes them unthinking or moronic, it just means that they see no need to make the necessary changes that might bring that closer to happening.

Good grief, you didn't want flames. Well, stop with the personal affronts please. Otherwise like this topic always tends to do, it will be locked.

Nichole

I didnt say it was what everyone wanted, but i said that it does undeniably give more to the person....


And Pica: I disagree.... Medically a transsexual body, but Imo, its as female as any woman that has no uterus... are they transsexed because they are not fertile?

Maybe yer right, can't claim enough medical knowledge to assert my claim or deny yours or anyfink.

Though you'll let me have the 'transsexual history' bit? 

---

Post Merge: February 24, 2009, 10:29:13 AM

---

maybe we could say a body that has been on a transgendered journey.

to an extent, but it depends on the person and thier personal situation...

OK, here's a confession

When I was a teenager everything had to be all or nothing for me - male or female etc. When I started to transition my mind went along with it and identified as 100% female, despite being into girls and going for the butch look (!).

But, just recently while hanging out with my girlfriends I met this girl who was really into me for being trans. Well, she's really cute and extremely seksi and she just woke up a side of me that I thought was dead.

Is that really so bad that both of us see things in that way, to be honest I found it one of the most liberating experiences of my life not to have be anything but myself.

Surely everything is fluid to a certain extent, just like the Straight/Gay line. How many people are 100% Gay or vice-versa?

A lot id guess.... most of the world is very straight.... As am i... the idea of same sex stuff is weird... at best.

As for identification: what does identifying female have to do with being butch, or lesbian? are butch lesbians not allowed to be women?

Quote from: Tink on February 23, 2009, 07:35:43 PM
I don't go around telling people I am a diabetic, or had chicken pox or mumps when I was a little girl, same thing with this "TS business"...it is something that is not part of who I am anymore.  I treated it, survived it and now life simply goes on...

tink

this is the most meaningful statement to my own situation and views, i had ts, i treated it and i moved on.

thank you Tink

AFAIK research shows that 10% of people are totally straight and 10% are totally Gay. The remaing lie somewhere along that line whatever they may profess. Could be 80/20, could be 25/75 and so on...

Of course butch lesbians are women, did I suggest otherwise!

As for the world being very straight, are you sure about that?

How many take this research?

if every person in the world has, ill belive it. but if thats a ts community or lgbt statement, it means little.

Quote from: Rachael on February 24, 2009, 11:17:57 AM
How many take this research?

if every person in the world has, ill belive it. but if thats a ts community or lgbt statement, it means little.

Every person in the world has to take a test! You are joking surely?

There's a science called statistics, it's a little like voting intention polls... They predicted an Obama win and what happened?

As for statements by any of the communities you mentioned they have as much validity as any others. God help us all if we have only to listen to the opinions of Straight people, next thing homosexuality will be a sin and punishable by heaven knows what.

I'm not ashamed of my sexuality nor does it make me feel wrong or inferior in any way.

I am a trans-woman and have always felt very comfortable with that label.  As a trans-woman I do not feel I am better of worse than anyone.  Everyone has the personal right to self-identify as they wish.
What bothers me is when people identify as ___________, in such a way that says if anyone else in their same gender condition does not identify as such, then they are idiots.  Enough said!

Quote from: Virginia87106 on February 24, 2009, 11:31:33 AM
I am a trans-woman and have always felt very comfortable with that label.  As a trans-woman I do not feel I am better of worse than anyone.  Everyone has the personal right to self-identify as they wish.
What bothers me is when people identify as ___________, in such a way that says if anyone else in their same gender condition does not identify as such, then they are idiots.  Enough said!

Right on Sister

"I" am a bloke. "I" as in my self-aware-self. "I" as in "my non-physical self".
The body that "I" Inhabit however, is not a boy. Even if I change it, it'll still require me to manage it's hormonal balance myself manually. It'll never function 100% like it would if it had been male to begin with. And nothing I do to it will change that it was born female.
I will always have taken that step to change my flesh to fit who "I" am, have always been and will always be. That is to say, "I" am a bloke, and always will be, but at the same time, just like I have brown hair, am right handed, and so on, I will always also be a trans-guy.
Being right-handed isn't my identity. Being brown-haired (turning gray fast) is not "who" I am. But it doesn't change that I'm right-handed and brown-haired. Just like trans is something I am, but not "who" I am.

I don't see why people can't accept that both apply.

I am not my body, I am not my haircolour, but that doesn't mean my body isn't my own or that my haircolour changes itself.
"I" am myself, always will be,... but that doesn't change the physical facts...
I'm a bloke, but no amount of me being a bloke will change that I was born with the wrong equipment.

QuoteI don't see why people can't accept that both apply.

I'm willing to bet this is a perspective that differs between people who pass v. people who don't, people who are post op v. people who aren't, people for whom this is recent v. people for whom this has been 'dealt with' for years, etc.