Quote from: Mister on February 24, 2009, 03:37:31 PM
I'm willing to bet this is a perspective that differs between people who pass v. people who don't, people who are post op v. people who aren't, people for whom this is recent v. people for whom this has been 'dealt with' for years, etc.

To be perfectly honest. I still don't understand it..

Quote from: Miniar on February 24, 2009, 04:01:13 PM
To be perfectly honest. I still don't understand it..

Well, let me take a shot at it from a personal perspective...

Everything from my female past (except the box of photos my mother has requested to keep, which is fine with me) has been eliminated.  Every record changed, every possible record sealed.  All my surgeries were completed a while ago and between chest hair and seeing them all the time, i don't notice my scars anymore.  There is no hint of femininity left in my body, thanks in part to being 5'10" 170 lbs and thin hipped.  I look at myself and it's just not there.  it's over.  it's done.  I've left the Missus behind and now live my life soley as Mister.  When it comes down to it, will my physician always see me as a transsexual?  Yes, but not due to the presence of female body parts but rather for the lack of needing such comfy procedures as a prostate exam.  My friends and family know me only as Mister and now referring to me as Missus sounds strange coming out of their mouths.  Friends i have made since do not know, as it has no bearing on our friendship.  If they were to find out, I'd be willing to say they'd be shocked.  My life as a "woman" has been removed, just like my faulty appendix.

Would I embrace a lifelong TS identity if I didn't pass as well?  Possibly.  I assume that if I was not as undetectable as I am, my community activism would be much more frontlines and involved.  I can't say for sure, as I have the luxury of walking through my life undetected.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 24, 2009, 09:42:22 AM
she has a female identity, a female self, but a transgendered body.

Hmmmm...since we are talking about MY body here, Pica just for the record..there is nothing "transgendered" about my body or myself.  My body is female and so is my mind.  I was born with a female brain (IOW a female neurological gender identity)  SRS didn't change my "gender" either; it simply brought congruence between my (neurological) gender identity and my anatomy. 


tink

Quote from: imaz on February 24, 2009, 11:24:35 AM
Every person in the world has to take a test! You are joking surely?

There's a science called statistics, it's a little like voting intention polls... They predicted an Obama win and what happened?

As for statements by any of the communities you mentioned they have as much validity as any others. God help us all if we have only to listen to the opinions of Straight people, next thing homosexuality will be a sin and punishable by heaven knows what.

I'm not ashamed of my sexuality nor does it make me feel wrong or inferior in any way.

Statistics need to take EVERY person into account or it is just a sample....

samples can be taken from anywhere to prove a statistic you want.... you'll forgive me if i dont belive the world is mostly into same sex activity to some extent or another.... Dont be ashamed of your sexuality....

Sorry, but you missed my point... i was saying that sampling from the lgbt communities would ruin the sample's authenticity.... Nobody said it was a sin, or not to listen to you... get off your high horse....



As for the obama statistic... god, cant you see the difference bettween a 50/50 election prediction, AND THE WORLD's SEXUALITY? *facepalm*

"Sorry, but you missed my point... i was saying that sampling from the lgbt communities would ruin the sample's authenticity...."

Sampling the heterosexual community's just fine then?

Face-palm or not, try to hold your prejudice in sway.

You are one bad tempered and aggressive girl. Go have a lie down.

I would avoid personal attacks, and if you read my post, you'd see i said sample 'THE WHOLE WORLD' what part of whole world means 'just hetros'

I think you need to calm down and read this topic again hon, because id hate to get things argumentative. Understanding a post or reading it twice can clear any mistakes and save fights starting.

Hi Rachael and Imaz,

From my understanding, you may have a small miscommunication issue.  It's not the fault of either one of you.  Sometimes peoples messages just kind of cross funny.  Please don't argue. 

It may be better if you don't address each other's posts here in this thread for a while. 


Thank you,

Rebis

Quote from: Rachael on February 24, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
I'm afraid you may have to get used ot that....


Passing DOES = more rights... 'passing privilage' or 'cis-privilage' that nobody sees you as gender variant.... to someone who aims to pass, that is an advantage, and does offer more ease of living over not passing. Thats not  Ego... thats fact hon.  If you think its not, i wonder where you keep your head...

That's not the point I was making.  My point is, that I would never view someone who doesn't pass as being any different than I am.  I agree, it is easier if you pass, but that doesn't make me superior to anyone who doesn't.  The thing is about passing, there isn't a real measurable way to define it.  You may think you are passing perfectly, but in reality, there are many out there who read you like a book but are open minded and understanding so they just go with it.  The fact is, you don't know what is really going through someones mind when they see you.

Ashley-  You are so right on!!!!

Ashley, that's a lovely sentiment ... but after going back and forth something like six times, I can't figure out why you insist that you disagree with Rachael. You seem to be saying the same thing.

Rachael said nothing about people with so-called passing priviledge being better or worse, only that they have, well, priviledge. They have literally more rights afforded them. All you seem to be saying is that passing priviledge is relative to some extent.

Your last point is ambiguous. Are you referring to all transsexual women, some or them, or Rachael in particular? Certainly this woman didn't have to worry about people in everyday life seeing her as transsexual (though sadly she did have to worry about her past being uncovered -- but I don't think you can credibly argue that her looks tipped anyone off):



I don't get the impression Rachael has much trouble herself ... the exact opposite dynamic seems more likely, that is, that she's convinced whe doesn't pass, and in reality she does, pretty much perfectly. That's not exactly unheard of -- see Raci in Transgeneration, for instance. (I don't think Gabbie really applies, since she is so open about her status.)

I don't imply one way or the other on a personal matter if a person passes or not.  That is not for me to decide.  I really don't care if someone does or not, they will be the same in my eyes.  If they are not the same to anyone else, then I really pity that person for their shallowness.  "Passing privilage" should not be a factor, sadly, I know it is to many, just not me.

I don't want to be set apart from anyone for any reason.  We all have struggles and I think we should stick with our kind in the fight for equality.  I'm sure as hell not taking the cowardice side of things and saying "Well, I pass perfectly.  If you are treated like crap, that's not my problem."  No, I will fight for them as well.  That is where the problem of this discussion all started.  One group not wanting to be linked with another because of passing privilage.  It's just stupid.

People are diverse even within the same demographic.  Individuals tend to be at different places in their personal development.  Sometimes people are at a place where they wish to keep to themselves, and other times they are at a place where they may wish to be involved.

people are just all different.  I no longer waste energy trying to understand why some people feel differently than I do.  They just do.

Quote from: Ashley315 on March 01, 2009, 12:13:49 PM
That's not the point I was making.  My point is, that I would never view someone who doesn't pass as being any different than I am.  I agree, it is easier if you pass, but that doesn't make me superior to anyone who doesn't. The thing is about passing, there isn't a real measurable way to define it.  You may think you are passing perfectly, but in reality, there are many out there who read you like a book but are open minded and understanding so they just go with it.  The fact is, you don't know what is really going through someones mind when they see you.

As much as i want to say you're wrong, You just confirmed what my mother tells me every time we speak, and have stripped the last of my self confidence.

Thankyou

Quote from: Rachael on March 02, 2009, 06:00:09 PM
As much as i want to say you're wrong, You just confirmed what my mother tells me every time we speak, and have stripped the last of my self confidence.

Thankyou

Not even close to what I was really meaning by all this, but take it however you want.  I personally don't know if you pass, don't care, and would never say one way or the other.  Was only making a point that we can not read peoples minds.  Why should it matter if they "know but are understanding and go with it"?  They are still treating you the way they should be regardless of the reasoning.

I give up on this topic.  It's a pointless thing to argue about.

Quote from: Ashley315 on March 02, 2009, 06:43:01 PM
Not even close to what I was really meaning by all this, but take it however you want.  I personally don't know if you pass, don't care, and would never say one way or the other.  Was only making a point that we can not read peoples minds.  Why should it matter if they "know but are understanding and go with it"?  They are still treating you the way they should be regardless of the reasoning.

I give up on this topic.  It's a pointless thing to argue about.

I see what you're saying, Ashley, but I feel like there's an absolute difference between passing without recognition and with it.  I've passed as both and can say i've been treated much more 'male' by those who didn't recognize my history.

You just proved that frame of mind.....

As for why it matters?

I am a woman, i want to be seen as a woman, not accepted as 'a woman' Acceptance suggests that you are accepted for something you are not. I dont want acceptance.

[Edited violation of TOS, Rule 7-- Nichole]... all you post seems to be bitter and frankly unhelpful....

As for my own situation. I get told every other moment by my mother, that i dont pass, that people treat me as a girl out of sympathy or humouring me... I find this disgusting personally. I live by the truth, i want to live in a world of it. not a cotton padded fantisy land....

You have no concept of others feelings do you? In a support forum, such views are franky worse than so called 'you dont pass' comments. Then again, what with the old sentiment here of 'if you cant tell someone they pass, dont post'. You cant see my point becase your reality doesnt exist....

Ok, topic locked. All this sort of thing ever does is cause hurt feelings. O, I also removed your suggestion that someone stop posting altogether, Rachael. That violates TOS and you are well aware of that.

Nichole