Quote from: Genevieve Swann on March 02, 2009, 06:44:30 AM
Personally I think lesbians have more fun. Genevieve

I can't deny that this is part of the appeal.  Men mainly seem capable of two things, both of which I find rather distasteful (but that's just me of course).

Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are not the same thing. However, I think I hear what you are saying... it would be so much easier for me to be all about the men. Transitioning alone totally sucks. Finding women that see MtF's as women are rare. Finding even enough of a connection with someone is rare. It makes things complicated. Just be yourself. Our ladies will find us eventually.

I might would be a little more open to the idea of being with a guy if I were not already happily married to a woman..  Who knows.  Guess I don't have to worry about it.  I've just never found them sexually attractive.  There are some I can look at and think, "he is kinda cute" and I can see why a straight woman (or gay guy) would be attracted to some guys, but I've just never been turned on by them.

Quote from: Ashley315 on March 16, 2009, 12:16:36 AM
There are some I can look at and think, "he is kinda cute" and I can see why a straight woman (or gay guy) would be attracted to some guys

I totally understand this concept. I have been so lonely that I try to open to the idea of letting a man into my life but the follow through keeps coming up with the same result ~ it just is not right.

Oddly enough after I awoke today and had my first coffee the daydreaming process began. I told myself  "Self, you should marry a lesbian." It's because I prefer the company of a woman. Some guys are physically attractive but usually there's an attitude problem. Maybe society influences guys to show off their machismo. When guys are together they can act very immature. Arrested development. They are still in a highschool locker room.

If you are attracted to females and wish to be a female, you are indeed lesbian :3

I also consider myself a lesbian, though I am straight as of now because I am still a legal male, due to preferring females and I have a girlfriend already who is a bisexual male to female transgender.

What is the point of beating yourself up for being who you are anyway?
So what if you are attracted to females and wish to change your gender/sex, that is normal although society does not see it that way.

If anything, on the homosexual topic, I have always thought people (as in everyone on this planet) were initially bisexual at one point in time in their life either clueless about it or in denial and I myself have found some male content arousing before a long time ago.
A long time ago I was quite confused about my sexual preference to men because I had thoughts of them sexually and I knew I just did not like them like that, but since I was thinking about them on auto-pilot every now and then I thought I was bisexual but something was WAY off, I was not looking at males intentionally and did not find them arousing.
Years went by and I was still stumped on why I kept thinking of males, then one day I stumbled upon ->-bleeped-<-s (transsexuals) and my images of men stopped auto-piloting and I realized it wasn't men I was attracted to but transsexuals and I have not had a single auto-pilot image of a man in my head since :3
It explains why I was never attracted to men but I did not know much about transsexuals back then and was battling my preferences and I always looked at furry art and feminine guys (emo's) and it just occurred to me that I prefer feminine transsexuals over men and I also realized in turn I am also lesbian.

You just need to find yourself, your place, desires, sexual orientation and be you :3
Explore yourself, your soul, body, desires and everything about you and you will find your place.

I am a male to female lesbian, but I do not want to be with a male... it just does not fit my image.
But I am also taken by a dominant male to female transgender :3

This article about MtF TS sexual orientaion is interesting.
http://www.secondtype.com/sexuality.htm

Most of the studies cited in the chart have too small a sample size to infer much from them.  One of the studies (Lawrence, 2005) is way out of whack, but it has by far the greatest sample size.  The range of results shows anywhere from 10%~ to 25% of post-op women are lesbians.  The range of post-op women who are hetero or bi was pretty consistently within the range of 85%-90%.  I doubt this is terribly different from natal women.  Where TS peeps are differentiated from cis-women (especially in the Lawrence study) is more of them seem to be bi than straight heterosexual. 

As I said, I believe this is less different from cis-women than one might assume.  Like Janet above, I believe many people are a lot more bi than they think.  I am sure plenty of girls raised in repressive social situations who had tendencies to find both boys and girls attractive only pursued their attraction to males, and probably repressed whatever attraction to females they may have felt.  I know from personal experience that the human power for denial is enormous, especially when you are inclined to try to fit in.

For TS's, especially those who tried at first to assimilate as males, their attraction to women wasn't socially stigmatized, so they would have been more likely to be open to such feelings.  Those who transition very late in life would have spent most of their life pushed by the social current toward pursuing women, and those who were able to find satisfaction there had a whole lot of time to get comfortable with the idea that they are attracted to women exclusively.  It is not surprising to me that the older a MtF is when she transitions, the more likely she is to be a lesbian.

For me, I tried to like girls as a part of my effort to assimilate into society as I felt I was expected.  In fact I convinced myself that I really did feel attracted to them.  Yet, I found the physical stuff never did much for me (besides stress me out) and that my relationships were always failing b/c of my complete lack of interest in physical intimacy.  Despite these clues I never really caught on that maybe just because I could perceive that a girl was cute or attractive didn't necessarily mean I was attracted to them sexually.  As I've dropped away from conforming to the gender norms I was assigned at birth, I've found my attraction to women has completely evaporated and that I'm becoming much more attracted to men.

One other consideration about the data in the article I linked is it is all probably somewhat skewed because it's been observed that many post-ops find their orientation is somewhat fluid for a while until they settle into long-term partnering habits (Lynne Conway.)  It would be interesting to see a study that tracks the orientation of people who are a decade or more post-op.

Quote from: Jen on April 19, 2009, 03:31:22 PM
This article about MtF TS sexual orientaion is interesting.
http://www.secondtype.com/sexuality.htm

One thing I didn't see in that article (I read most but skimmed some), is the difference in how different age groups view sexuality. Being gay 30 years ago was a much bigger deal than it is today. This could have an effect on the results as not only the age you transitioned at but also how your generation viewed gay relationships.

Still very interesting.

I'm bisexual I guess but find Gay guys a massive turn off... Never fancied one and never had one fancy me, or if they did I never realised it.

Was at a very famous fetish club here in London last week and the guys were just weird but the girls were just amazing.

When will men realise that just stariing at one or bumping into one is not the way to go?... No class, no sexiness,  and that's why I stick to women

Rant over!

Quote from: Leslie Ann on April 19, 2009, 04:33:16 PM
One thing I didn't see in that article (I read most but skimmed some), is the difference in how different age groups view sexuality. Being gay 30 years ago was a much bigger deal than it is today. This could have an effect on the results as not only the age you transitioned at but also how your generation viewed gay relationships.

You raise a good point.. 

because God made you that way......

Thank you.  I found this very interesting because I am a woman who has been going by the term 'bi-sexual' for the past 10 years and my fiance is a woman who goes by 'lesbian'; who ironically was my boyfriend in 1999.  We dated briefly and then didn't see each other for years.  We met up again and started dating again only this time as a lesbian couple.  I knew nothing about being trans and the first 3 people I talked to told me that as soon as my girlfriend got SRS we would break up.  I didn't understand why they would say such a thing but now I know that it is because they were stereotyping us.  If we really are two females then we won't stay together because eventually we will BOTH seek to date a man.  I was afraid because they honestly believed we CAN'T stay together.  Then I watched a thing on you tube about a Mtf lesbian and I felt much better.  I loved my girlfriend in 1999 when she was a guy I love her now in 2009 when she is a woman and I am looking forward to loving her in 2019 when we are happily married with a house and kids... 

Welcome to Susan's, Venus. I'm glad you found some comfort.

Funny, isn't it, (and sad) how often we buy into these utterly ridiculous stereotypes even while everything we experience tells us they're wrong?

You get people like that from time to time Venus.  Ignorance at it's best is all I can say about that.  I know plenty of lesbian couples (my wife and I included) who have never nor will ever "seek" a man for a relationship.  I have been with my partner for 16 years now and every day our love for each other grows stronger.

Lesbian, straight, bi..... it makes no difference in the end... Just find someone that makes you happy and don't worry to much about the labels.

I'm a Lezzie!   

Some transwomen previously "functioned" quite well in the male role, some didn't function in that role at all and needed to become female to become sexually active.
For the former group, surely that entire past life - 54 years in my case - MUST leave us with a lot of leftover attitudes and inclinations? If you keep on repeating something often enough, the brain itself modifies and adapts, that's the basis of Learning.
So surely it's quite a lot about "how well one adjusted" to life in a gender role that conflicted with ones inner inclinations and desires?

Also - if one had assimilated the male role fairly well, then one has spent a LOT of time hanging around with guys and seen them in a way and to a depth that (probably) no cisgendered female ever has.

Personally, I tried male-on-male sex half a dozen times and simply could not "feel right" about it - not guilt or anything, just simply not right even with a really handsome and trusted friend for whom I had/have a deep brotherly affection.

To be honest, I find the entire guy lifestyle uninviting in almost every way - it seems to be little more than a perpetual pissing contest.
Teenage boys are the worst for giving us all grief on the streets - most of the time, I just pity them 'cos I've BEEN THERE once myself and know that they are grandstanding for each others benefit, playing up how "true guy through-and-through they are.

Since this thread seems to be endless, I might as well kick in.

I don't see why more people don't simply presume that a life spent trying to conform to one gender and its norms might just have some lingering effects even after gender transition. A few people above pointed this out, but it seems pretty widely ignored all the same.

I identify as bi-sexual. But increasingly, as I've been in male mode, I'm more like asexual because I don't really want to be intimate with anyone who sees me as male. That wasn't always true. But it's truer the older I get. It's the ultimate turn off.

As for those who accept me as a woman, I'm bisexual for now. I suspect if I'd been raised as a girl I'd be hetero with no more than maybe a couple hidden bi fantasies. But who really knows such a thing? Most of my current romantic fantasies involve men. My closest relationships are with women. I have no idea where things might lead in the future, but my sexuality is among the least of my quandries. I just accept whom I feel attracted to and worry about other things.

Though to toss another log onto the fire, I believe I've heard that post-op TS's who identify as bisexual pre-op go on to identify as hetero in some significant number later on. Anyone have any info on that?

      Oddly enough, for most of my life as a physical male, I was strictly into men. I began hormones at 18 years old and I watched in time as my tastes wandered and morphed as my body did as well. Now 21, all attraction to males has dissipated and I find myself attracted to women.

      My story is not unlike many others, sometimes its vice versa. Don't worry about being a "lesbian" if you are m2f, it's no big deal. I have been in a very committed lesbian relationship with a GG for 1 year now and not only is she supportive but anxious for what my surgery will bring in a few months. It's pretty cool! Anyway, i see this topic a lot and I see absolutely no problem with it! Be you, because that's what caused you to transition in the first place!

Quote from: Dana_W on May 04, 2009, 11:12:25 PM
Though to toss another log onto the fire, I believe I've heard that post-op TS's who identify as bisexual pre-op go on to identify as hetero in some significant number later on. Anyone have any info on that?

I suspect the reason is precisely the same as the reason that many bisexual people in general end up "identifying" -- or more accurately, "being identified" -- as hetero "later on." Simply, if you are strictly bisexual (no preference whatsoever for men versus women), it's a lot more likely that you'll be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex at any given time. That's true with most bisexual people I know, and people tend to identify your sexuality by your current or last relationship.

I suspect that one reason we find more gay or bi trans folks on forums like this than in the total trans population is just that there aren't quite as many ongoing complications for purely straight trans people. It's not that they won't run into trans phobia or are immune from casual bigotry and the like, but hetero relationships as such aren't suspicious and problematic to the mainstream like same-sex ones. Those of us who are in or who want to be in same-sex relationships are going to end up congregating more simply because we do (or will) share an extra dimension of social challenge to deal with, and it's not surprising that a seed of trans people with same-sex desires will attract more.

If there aren't forums that focus more exclusively on the needs (and wants) of trans people in opposite-sex relationships, there's an opening there. I'll bet it could do some folks a lot of good, and I don't mean that sarcastically at all.

Count me in, in the meantime, as another currently male-bodied person who just isn't comfortable around a lot of men, even ones I know and have great confidence. I don't like living in a testerone- and adrenaline-fueled world so much. Women have been better for me in the matters of deepest trust and companionship. I've had both male and female lovers, and am prepared to say plenty of good things about the romantic and sexual potential in male bodies, but...it's not where my heart is.