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Androgynes in War

Started by Nicky, March 25, 2009, 04:45:58 PM

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Nicky

Now war might be a bit of an inflammatory topic in some ways. Some people believe it is ok, some don't. Best to avoid arguing against each other. We all have our own reasons. Feel free to share, but respect others opinions.

I don't like war, part of me thinks being in one just makes you part of a problem.
But I'm not a complete pacifist either. I would fight in defence from a direct attack, or fight on behalf of someone that was being unjustly attacked. Despite this I don't think I could bring myself to join an army. I would hate to be the one having to kill the other guy who more than likely is just happens to be on the other side. Armies are too impersonal. I could understand facing somebody that really hates me and wants me dead, maybe even someone that is willing to kill because they are ordered to do it which seems rather inhuman to me. But in war you can't tell, nobody wears their motive and all you know is someone is trying to kill you and you are trying to kill them back.

I get the feeling androgynes are not that well suited to the regimented life of an army, navy or airforce. I imagine that we would likely be found in supporting roles, kitchen, entertainment, supplies, camp whore, or the protesters, the defaulters that sort of thing. But I don't really know.

Have any of you served in any armed conflict?

Any thoughts?
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Constance

I've never served in the armed forces, and when I turned 18 and registered as a Conscientious Objector. However, I'm not a pacifist.

Not all persons can be reasoned with, and I accept this. However, warfare doesn't seem to be the best way to strike at those who won't be reasoned with. I, too, would fight in defense, but that's about as far as I could go.

Pica Pica

I am not a warlike sort, except when i play civilisation and have built all the irrigation and roads I want.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Constance

Hmmm, this reminds me that some of my favorite games include Doom, Quake (I and II), and Halo. Very much war games.

KYLYKaHYT

Dreaming of hawks, elk and thunder brought good fortune to the Omaha. Visions of snakes portended trouble. But among the Omaha and other tribes, a man who dreamed of the moon courted true disaster, for if he awoke at the wrong moment, he would be forever doomed to give up his manhood and take up the ways of a woman. Some young men committed suicide after experiencing such dreams. Others accepted their fate and lived the rest of their lives as mixuga, which means "instructed by the moon." A mixuga man was obligated to dress like a woman, speak like a woman, and perform the female duties of cultivating the soil, braiding buffalo hair, and embroidering moccasins and clothing. Instead of the warrior's shaved head and decorative roach, the mixuga wore his hair long and parted down the middle.

A few mixuga men crossed back and forth between female and male roles. In 1898 an Osage named Black Dog told a white visitor about a young man who had always insisted that he had received a warrior's vision. After leading a war party on a successful raid, the young man was dancing in honor of his victory when an owl hooted and announced to the Indians that their leader was a mixuga. "The people listened in amazement," Black Dog related, "and the leader protested: 'I have done that which a mixuga could never do!' However, on reaching his home, the young leader dressed as a woman and spoke as a woman. He married and had children. He was a successful warrior, but when about to go to war, he discarded his woman's clothing and dressed himself as a man."

Excerpt from: "The American Indians: Cycles of Life" 1994
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
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Nicky

I like games with lots of death and destruction. But then most computer games revolve around death and destruction.
My dnd characters are always rather ruthless type characters too, my most recent killed a gang of chilldren that were trying to steal from her. Pretty distasteful and some of the other players reacted quite strongly to it. I enjoyed it emensly. I don't know what that says about me. I think it just reflects my frustration in the real world.
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Eva Marie

When I turned 18 I registered for selective service. We happened to have a period of peace while I was in the right age range to join the military. Now i'm too old.

I do believe that there are times to go to war. Hitler's genocide comes to mind, as does japan's aggression in WW2. And in later times, al queida and 9-11. There are truly bad/disturbed people in the world who only understand force and nothing else (kim jong II, pol pot, saddam hussein, mussolini, etc). You can't sit down and reason with people like that, in spite of what obama thinks. I do agree that war should only be pulled out as a last resort.

I also believe that if you choose to join into a war you go all out for winning it. Wars where the goals are ill defined and fuzzy just don't work (vietnam).
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Nicky

I think the problem with thinking that some people only understand force is that they are thinking the exact same thing.

If it comes down to the actions of a leader, why not just assassinate them and all or any associated leaders? If you can't find the leaders kill the middle men. I don't think enough effort is put into assasination. Bugger the morality, it has to be better than war.
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KYLYKaHYT

#8
I personally make no judgments regarding warfare. Sadly, it's one of those things our species just can't seem to grow past. My personal ethics don't glorify warfare, but they don't forbid it either. Sometimes war is necessary and it is always tragic.

I will fight if necessary to protect my loved ones, myself or my country, but I hope that never becomes necessary.
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
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Nicky

I get the feeling that as long as most of us are prepared to fight to defend ourselves there will always be war  :(
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KYLYKaHYT

I get the feeling that you're probably right.  :(
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
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ZaidaZadkiel

I hate HATE **HATE** war and conflict.

When I think about it and the history and the Reasons why there has been wars, my stomach feels like a knot and I want to cry.

The human race is extremly short-sighted.

I would rather give up everything than kill. I would rather die than kill, too.

Why can't we just get along ?
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imaz

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on March 25, 2009, 07:16:48 PM
I hate HATE **HATE** war and conflict.

When I think about it and the history and the Reasons why there has been wars, my stomach feels like a knot and I want to cry.

The human race is extremly short-sighted.

I would rather give up everything than kill. I would rather die than kill, too.

Why can't we just get along ?

Well said :)
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Jaimey

I can understand war in some situations, but in today's world, generally, I think it can be avoided.  I hate war and conflict, but I am the type that would fight to survive.  I'd never join the armed forces though.  Too structured, too strict, and I don't like being told what to do.

I guess you could say I loathe violence, but I'll use it if I have to to protect myself or someone else.  It really depends on the situation.  On a side note, I don't like war/fighting games (Risk can bite my ass :icon_burn:)...although if you were to play certain games with me, I can be just as sick as anyone.  :D 
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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Shana A

I don't understand how any human can take the life of another human.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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tekla

The trouble with violence is that in some situations its the most effective course of action.  People use it because it works.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Nicky

That is only true when dealing with violent people or if you are violent yourself, even then it could be debatable.  If nobody was violent there would be no need for it at all.
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KYLYKaHYT

Quote from: Zythyra on March 25, 2009, 09:50:20 PM
I don't understand how any human can take the life of another human.

I think it is because deep inside every human being, beyond a certain breaking point, lives something ugly that will resort to such actions, even if it is just to make someone else stop committing horrors and atrocities. Any of us who have never had occasion to be introduced to that ugly thing should probably count ourselves as fortunate.
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
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Nicky

Quote from: KYLYKaHYT on March 26, 2009, 07:04:39 AM
I think it is because deep inside every human being, beyond a certain breaking point, lives something ugly that will resort to such actions, even if it is just to make someone else stop committing horrors and atrocities. Any of us who have never had occasion to be introduced to that ugly thing should probably count ourselves as fortunate.

Likely it is part of our makeup that helped us survive as a species.
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Simone Louise

I believe violence is an admission of failure and creates more problems than it solves. That would be true of relations with spouse or partner, children, at work, and especially between nations. World War II was fought because we did too little, too late to oppose Hitler. The US was ambivalent about his proposals to rid Germany of its Jewry and unwilling to accept more refugees. Even when at war, we did not destroy the railroads leading to the concentration camps. Our government suppressed the mounting evidence of genocide. And US Jews, by and large, kept quiet for fear of rocking our own boat.

For the record, my aunt and grandmother were lifelong antiwar activists. My family did host WWII and later refugees. I would be happy to suggest books on non-violent conflict resolution to any who might be interested.

Looking forward to next fall's college football,
S
Choose life.
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