Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

So why not?

Started by Jill, April 02, 2009, 09:11:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

mina.magpie

Quote from: imaz on April 04, 2009, 03:33:15 AM
Frankly I think I could do a lot more for my faith by transitioning. The World needs more LGBT Muslims if only to show Islam in a more favourable light.

Hehehe. Depends on who's doing the lighting. Combining the Gay Agenda and the Muslim Menace in one scary, ungodly package ... ... muahahahahaha.  >:-)

Mina.
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: imaz on April 04, 2009, 03:33:15 AM
Frankly I think I could do a lot more for my faith by transitioning. The World needs more LGBT Muslims if only to show Islam in a more favourable light.

Had that been my revelation I would still be a girl right now and a TS activist. :D
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

V M

Virginia avoids religious issues...Late  :P
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

SarahFaceDoom

Quote from: imaz on April 04, 2009, 03:21:31 AM
OK let's bring out another contentious issue about "non-ops"...

Some people out there fancy us for how we are, and some of us like that, it's also a sexual thing.

Go on, do your worst punks! >:-)

I struggle with that one sometimes, though I think it's mostly because of the internet.  I'm always asking myself why this person likes me, and what they see--and how that will play with who I am.  I think ideally I want someone who is turned on by who I am--because I mean--doesn't everyone want to be desired?  But I don't want that to be the only reason they are with me.  Which I think is true no matter who you are in the human experience.  The desire is for both phsyical AND emotional intimacy.   I'm still looking for it.
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: Virginia Marie on April 04, 2009, 03:42:37 AM
Virginia avoids religious issues...Late  :P

I agree - not a discussion that ever ends well.  Suffice it to say for my part, it is important to me, but I cannot expect others to see it the way I do.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

cindybc

Hi interalia, I have no plans of detrasitioning, I have already went the full gambit now standing on the other side of the line so to speak. But what you have posted here to us has truly caught my attention, I am curious as well. I have had a spiritual experience I will post it if you wish. Actually I wish to shared one in particular which I have share on these board before.

Cindy   
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: cindybc on April 04, 2009, 03:45:06 AM
Hi interalia, I have no plans of detrasitioning, I have already went the full gambit now standing on the other side of the line so to speak. But what you have posted here to us has truly caught my attention, I am curious as well. I have had a spiritual experience I will post it if you wish. Actually I wish to shared one in particular which I have share on these board before.

Cindy   


Well I feel I'll be up so long as people are responding in the two threads I am watching.  I'm up for more questions either through this forum or PMs.  And feel free to share your experience as well if you feel it appropriate to this particular thread.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

cindybc

I am not certain of what the meaning was, I have some ideas, I believe it had something to do as to what lay ahead of me. Before I had ever even given any consideration to transitioning. I would welcome some thoughts on it though. You say you had a vision that lead you to de transitioning I believe mine meant a going int he opposite direction, but it lead to a journey with a purpose I would never have been aware of.

Cindy
  •  

SarahFaceDoom

Quote from: interalia on April 04, 2009, 03:30:32 AM

For incredibly more detail, I suggest you read this: http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/03/who-am-i.html
I hear it cures insomnia.


I read this whole thing.  It was pretty engrossing and interesting.  It makes me kind of sad too.  You're kind of tearing yourself up over and over, with a belief system that runs exactly counter to your base notions of self.  And rather than accept that there are contradictions, and that's okay, you struggle very intensely with both sides of the argument.  It makes me sad that so many religions do this to their followers.  While I note that it definitely makes the experience much more vivid--it seems unnecessary.  If the Church just had a more open mind on these issues, you would havee been able to live your life as a girl, and as you say over and over, be perfectly happy.  You have both a strong desire to serve your church and you have a very strong identification as a girl.  That those two things are in contest, and not concert, really makes me sad.  Because the sense i got from reading that entry, especially by the end is that the GID is causing you to question the church, rather than embrace it further.  Because what it's embracing, you know is fake.

It's all so black and white, that just reading that I think your future is either in being magically changed in terms of how you identify, or leaving the church again.  It may not happen for years and years, but you can't fully serve a god with a fake persona in between.  God knows who you are.  And if you serve him, if he's at all like most other gods, he demands of you EVERYTHING.  Otherwise you won't get the most out of the relationship, and the monsters you hide will grow and grow until they overtake you.

The flipside of the coin is that your faith right now, intrinsically is against you.  because of what your faith is, your GID and how you view it is always going to be as a negative.  Which means you are always going to view yourself in the negative.  you can't embrace yourself with a system of values that demean and devalue your core identity.

I hope it works out for you though.  I think your wife is going to be your biggest ally in this, if you've been honest with her and truthful.  Also I hope you're seeing some kind of therapist, or are able to be completely honest with your bishop or whatever(do mormons do confessionals?  I dunno).
  •  

SarahFaceDoom

Quote from: cindybc on April 04, 2009, 03:56:42 AM
I am not certain of what the meaning was, I have some ideas, I believe it had something to do as to what lay ahead of me. Before I had ever even given any consideration to transitioning. I would welcome some thoughts on it though. You say you had a vision that lead you to de transitioning I believe mine meant a going int he opposite direction, but it lead to a journey with a purpose I would never have been aware of.

Cindy


Aren't you wiccan?  Or have I confused my people's and their religions?
  •  

Cindy

Sorry Interalia
Not meaning in anyway to steal your serious thread.

But Heatherrose.
We need matching tote bags, the hand bags need extra ammo can you get pink bullets? Putting in for fuel? We have chook raffles in Aus. We could try that to subsidze the project

CJ

What colour can you get Pump Action SGs in? The basic black is banned i Oz
  •  

cindybc

Surendering

I guess that would be 10 years ago now, well, it was a few years before I started my full time. I came home and kicked my shoes off and sat on the couch to relax and begin my daily meditations.

I found myself floating in a thick grey fog, then a short time later I felt my feet touching some type of surface. I thought I had heard something in the distance and stopped stalk still to listen more intently for the sound I thought I had heard. I could hear what sounded  like the soft sobbing of a child, the sound was much closer then I had first thought.

I followed the sobbing until I saw the small hunched-over form of a young child. The child stopped whimpering momentarily, maybe sensing my presence, then resumed her whimpering again. Her shoulders shaking at each whimper. It was a little girl. She wore a blue dress with white frilly sleeves and hem and had two blue ribbons in her hair. To my judgment the little girl was not much over six years old. She looked up at me with tear-smeared sad eyes. I reached out to embrace her in my arms but as soon as I touched her it was like an electrical shock, I was sent flying backwards through the thick fog once more where I found myself drifting in that same grey void I had arrived in.

A short time latter the fog thinned and was whisked away as though by a strong wind, I was once again able to see my surroundings. My surroundings were not immediately familiar to me until a short time later I found myself back to the days of early childhood. I then began to move like a movie on fast forward, where I seen myself feeling and experiencing every emotional scene from earliest childhood to the present time,  which at the time was the year 2000.

I was overwhelmed by all these feelings I had experienced as I sat there doing the only thing that made sense at the time: releasing it through the most profound soul depth tears I had ever cried before in my life.

The next vision I had was few months after the first one.

Possibly a year later, I again was sitting on the couch meditating,  and once again found myself floating in the grey fog. When the fog cleared and I looked about to get my bearings on my surroundings. From the fog emerged another dark form. The form wore some type of cloak standing on a large redtangularly shaped stone, the form held a broad sword point down on the stone slab. I thought that odd, no warrior would treat their sword thusly   

I cautiously approached the dark form, and suddenly it jumped off the stone slab, raising the sword over its head. I was quite aware of the possibility that the intent of this entity whom by now appeared to be quite familiar to me, but could not quite remember from where or when. It never entered my mind that this person may have had the intent to impale me with the sword. For some reason I did not fear him, I just stood my ground, staring him in the eyes, the eyes, hazel green, the eyes as they had been coined, the windows to the soul.

Unmoved and unafraid I watched intently this warrior's every movements and actions action as he took another couple of steps forward. I could see his face clearly now and as the full realization and recognition suddenly struck me, I tingled everywhere as I felt tiny tendrils of goose flesh all over me. A slight breeze arose, ruffling my long hair and ruffling the hem of my long skirts. I continued standing transfixed before this warrior whom I knew to have been part of me in a previous life..

This man lowered the sword, holding it in both hands before him, he then knelt down on his right knee and placed the broad sword on the ground before him, then stood up straight as a soldier and proclaimed that he would fight no more. I was expecting some type of military salute or something but he only stood very straight and still for a couple of seconds studying me. Then turned and walked back toward the stone slab, took his cloak off and draped the stone slab with it, then climbed up and laid on his cloak, and within a few second he closed his eyes and drifted off to sleep.

I, as Cindy, emerged from the vision a short time later. And yes, that was the first time in my life that I had actually seen myself in any type of manifestation in a dream, and it was the last time. Cindy was on her own, but then Cindy truly loves her life. It has been a truly wonderful journey, experience and discovery of who I truly am. Maybe someday I will write my story in it's entirety.       

Cindy
  •  

cindybc

Hi Sarah I practiced Wiccan, which basically means being in harmony with the elements. Also North American Native traditions. Both practices are very close together in practices and basic beliefs.

Cindy
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 04, 2009, 04:16:16 AM
I read this whole thing.  It was pretty engrossing and interesting.  It makes me kind of sad too.  You're kind of tearing yourself up over and over, with a belief system that runs exactly counter to your base notions of self.  And rather than accept that there are contradictions, and that's okay, you struggle very intensely with both sides of the argument.  It makes me sad that so many religions do this to their followers.  While I note that it definitely makes the experience much more vivid--it seems unnecessary.  If the Church just had a more open mind on these issues, you would havee been able to live your life as a girl, and as you say over and over, be perfectly happy.  You have both a strong desire to serve your church and you have a very strong identification as a girl.  That those two things are in contest, and not concert, really makes me sad.  Because the sense i got from reading that entry, especially by the end is that the GID is causing you to question the church, rather than embrace it further.  Because what it's embracing, you know is fake.

It's all so black and white, that just reading that I think your future is either in being magically changed in terms of how you identify, or leaving the church again.  It may not happen for years and years, but you can't fully serve a god with a fake persona in between.  God knows who you are.  And if you serve him, if he's at all like most other gods, he demands of you EVERYTHING.  Otherwise you won't get the most out of the relationship, and the monsters you hide will grow and grow until they overtake you.

The flipside of the coin is that your faith right now, intrinsically is against you.  because of what your faith is, your GID and how you view it is always going to be as a negative.  Which means you are always going to view yourself in the negative.  you can't embrace yourself with a system of values that demean and devalue your core identity.

I hope it works out for you though.  I think your wife is going to be your biggest ally in this, if you've been honest with her and truthful.  Also I hope you're seeing some kind of therapist, or are able to be completely honest with your bishop or whatever(do mormons do confessionals?  I dunno).

I'm glad you found it interesting.  As far as denouncing my religion as being intolerant, know that we do have transgendered members that are not excommunicated and are considered full members of the church.  My situation is as such that I feel I received a direct, personal, and powerful revelation that I should de-transition.  That didn't come from my church, but from what I perceive to be God.  Even if I left the church tomorrow it would be hard to deny the experience I had.

You are correct though that GID is a big negative to me.  I have accepted myself as a male with the condition, however there is no cure available to me - so I must learn to live with it.  Other people in this world have conditions far worse than my own that are untreatable - this is just the particular cross I have to bear for this life.  If I can learn anything that will help others bear it better, I will share it openly.

As for my wife, I am completely open with her.  I didn't even agree to marry her until she promised me that she would help me with my GID after we got married and until I was sure she would understand that it would always be a struggle for me.  She has accepted and embraced that challenge for which I am so very grateful.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

SarahFaceDoom

Quote from: interalia on April 04, 2009, 04:27:13 AM
I'm glad you found it interesting.  As far as denouncing my religion as being intolerant, know that we do have transgendered members that are not excommunicated and are considered full members of the church.  My situation is as such that I feel I received a direct, personal, and powerful revelation that I should de-transition.  That didn't come from my church, but from what I perceive to be God.  Even if I left the church tomorrow it would be hard to deny the experience I had.

You are correct though that GID is a big negative to me.  I have accepted myself as a male with the condition, however there is no cure available to me - so I must learn to live with it.  Other people in this world have conditions far worse than my own that are untreatable - this is just the particular cross I have to bear for this life.  If I can learn anything that will help others bear it better, I will share it openly.

As for my wife, I am completely open with her.  I didn't even agree to marry her until she promised me that she would help me with my GID after we got married and until I was sure she would understand that it would always be a struggle for me.  She has accepted and embraced that challenge for which I am so very grateful.

Thank you for the clarification.  So the struggle is between you and God?  That's a heavy battle to forge.  What does God tell you about your GID?  Does he just want you to live with it?  Does he tell you where you can act within your faith to serve him, and also salve those wounds?  Or does he want you to suffer?  Did he tell you why and what you had done?  What are the parameters you have to meet for him to be happy with you?  Is he okay with you identifying as a MTF TS and posting on a transgender board--so long as you yourself do not do anything to act on that identification?
  •  

imaz

GID a big negative?

Well the DSM creators, bless their little twisted hearts, do define it as a disorder!

Better to think of it as GIB - Gender Identity Blessing, because that is what it is and it is up to us to make the most of it.

Let's be positive here :)
  •  

Just Kate

My responses in Bold

Thank you for the clarification.  So the struggle is between you and God?  That's a heavy battle to forge. 

The struggle is between the life my GID wants me to live and living a normal life.

What does God tell you about your GID?  Does he just want you to live with it? 

I don't feel God has told me anything specific about anything other than that I needed to de-transition.  Everything else I say is my speculation.

Does he tell you where you can act within your faith to serve him, and also salve those wounds?  Or does he want you to suffer? 

I feel my GID lessened quite a bit up until recently, but feel it is more manageable now than in the past.  As I've learned more of my "triggers" I've been more successful in stemming off the negative effects.

Did he tell you why and what you had done?  What are the parameters you have to meet for him to be happy with you? 

I feel God wouldn't be "unhappy" with me if I transitioned really.  It was made known to me that I would be of better use to Him and the world if I don't transition and learn how to cope without it.  Then I could teach others so there would be less families and individuals torn apart by this insidious condition.

Is he okay with you identifying as a MTF TS and posting on a transgender board--so long as you yourself do not do anything to act on that identification?

I am a MTF TS by definition.  I am also a mammal and a human. ;)  Posting here allows me to receive support as well as give it - I doubt God has anything against Susan's or the people who post here.

For me this is a situation of choosing between a better and best option.  The "better" option is transition, but the "best" option is not to transition and learn how to do it without killing myself.  I am relying on God for the strength to make it through while I learn these coping techniques to share with others.

Imagine the good that would come about if that husband and father of three who struggles with GID didn't have to leave his family and had another option other than transition.  Who is telling that guy he has a choice and who is doing the research to show him how to make it?  I am, and others like me.  We are paving the way for others in the future to not have to endure the pain we did or so many others that have gone before us.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

cindybc

Hi Imaz, my mate calls it an inestimable gift. I think of it as a destiny, all is as it should be, I am only here to serve Great Spirit whose light grows brighter each day.

Cindy 
  •  

Just Kate

BTW, Cindy.  Thank you for sharing your visions.  They were interesting to me.  I myself have never had a vision per se, just very strong feelings I perceive that are coming from beyond myself.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

imaz

Quite right Cindy, our very existence is a blessing so let's make the most of it.

I'm out now to see a guy a fancy and then to meet a Bollywood superstar this evening! ;D

Word!
  •