Quote from: Miniar on April 15, 2009, 08:18:32 AM
There's that (Which is, in my opinion, an extremely positive thing!), and then there's my position.

I was born a girl in the flesh.
No matter how many surgeries I have, how long I'm on hormones, how much time I spend as a man, I can never change the fact that I was born with a vagina instead of a penis.
There will be moments where I will have to explain the absence of natural testicles to my new doctor.
There will be moments where I will have to explain to a prospective lover that my equipment isn't "up to code".
I call myself Trans because I am, plain and simple.
I use the word because "I" need to come to terms with facts I can not change.
I use the word because it's the "right" word.

This doesn't mean I'll shake the hand of a newly met stranger and introduce myself as a transexual, but it means I won't hide from the word or pretend that my youth didn't happen.

Who we are today depends on the path we've walked. If we love ourselves now, we should take pride in all that has come before it, even (if not especially) the parts that were difficult or painful.

I love you.  Good post.

Quote from: Miniar on April 16, 2009, 08:53:43 AM
If I were a diabetic and was able to manage my condition successfully and still live a life worth living, then the answer is a big, fat, YES!
Of course I would be proud.

Agreed!    I actually have a friend who is diabetic and very open about it and proud of herself. 

The difference is that you're not proud of being diabetic.  It means that you're proud of yourself as a diabetic person.  It's the same for being trans.  I'm not proud of my ->-bleeped-<-.  I'm proud of myself and I'm a transgendered person.   

Of course there's a difference between being proud and being "in your face".  If you shove it down people's throats...that's not what you want.  But I think that having pride in ourselves is important and necessary when it comes to rights and such.

Quote from: interalia on April 16, 2009, 11:54:38 PM
I love you.  Good post.

My thoughts exactly.  Miniar, you are fantastic. 

I can agree with that.  It seems logical enough and given that we really don't know much about the nature of DNA other than how it's made and what it's made of, we surely don't know what each individual combination in the chain does.

My post was just a basic breakdown of things.  Mostly because I was to lazy to type out anything like the long post you made.     Not only are we a long way from fully understanding DNA and chromosome mapping, but we are a long way away from understanding the human brain.  I do believe there are many traits and behaviors that are controlled (to some extent) by our DNA construct, but, I also believe than there are many more behaviors and traits that are simply learned from the moment we are conceived.  I do think one can (choose) to change any behavior they want to.  People do it all the time and get paid millions of dollars for it.  They call it acting. 

Maybe one day we will fully understand the wonder that is the human being.

I do think one can (choose) to change any behavior they want to.  People do it all the time and get paid millions of dollars for it.  They call it acting.

In fact, its very, very hard to do in a way that is compelling and convincing, which is why they get paid that much.

That, and that's not at all what acting is all about.

I'm not necessarily proud to be trans, because it's certainly not something I chose... however, I am proud to be who I am, and being trans is part of that, albeit a small part. I refuse to be ashamed of it, as I refuse to be "stealth".

Somebody said this, but I can't find the post on here... if more of us were open and upfront about being trans, and weren't ashamed of it, perhaps more people who are in the closet would have the courage to be themselves. I'm a man who was born with XX chromosomes, and who over time developed female physical characteristics... and yet I'm still a man. Nothing can change that, and I certainly had no power to change the fact that I was born female with a male mind. I think gay people became empowered when the world began to realize that homosexuality is not a choice... and hopefully the same will happen with transsexuals.

Yes, I am a man... one with breasts and a vagina, and one who has to give himself weekly injections to feel like himself. And I'm certainly not ashamed of that.

SD

I think gay people became empowered when the world began to realize that homosexuality is not a choice

B.S.  Gay people became empowered when they took the power.  They stood up, in public and said, "We're here, we're queer, get used to it."  When enough of them did that, it became a force. 

It has nothing to do with choice, but it has everything to do with being willing to take a public stand about who you are and what you are.

As a diabetic for about 5 years now, my feeling for that is simply that for me it has become a way of life and accepting ways that I am different from other people.  Certainly, I looked at the change in my life as a big thing when it was discovered, and I had to learn new things in order to live and stay well.  Now that I have lived with it and learned where my choices in life have to be different, some of them are fun.  I have always loved to cook, and learning new recipes and meal plans, and even coming up with entire meals for other family members and friends that are well within my diet and so tasty that they never guess it was diabetic balanced and perish the thought HEALTHY gives me evil pleasure.  The fact of a nice meal and the humor of their reactions makes it fun.  Not really proud, but its not a burden either any more.

Another place where I recently came to grips with another situation that is life changing, is that my brain is apparently wired with a predisposition to physical addictions to drugs and alcohol.  Ok, no more drinking for fun, or any other reason.  Now that I get the picture, its Ho Humm, pass the iced tea.  Some people tell me I should be proud that my last drink of booze and a few pills was over 6 months ago.  I do go to a 12 step meeting, and the rest of them reacted more heavily to my 6 months status than another person's six years.  I am much happier now than I was this time last year, but thats what I look at.

Both of these things are also the way I look at my dissatisfaction with the gender that my mother's OB/GYN declared me to be back in 1948.  I am not proud that I am this way.  Why be proud of something that has put you through HELL??  Some of that is why my other two life changing health/psycho-chemistry related issues happened.  (Beer bellys are serious weight that screws up the liver and pancreas which causes Type 2 diabetes.  Gender dissatisfaction makes you grouchy and unhappy, so you look to beer to make you feel better, as it take more beer to feel better, the beer belly gets larger.) 

I could go into another genetic condition that makes my blood the same for vampires as the beer is for me, but its more fun to keep people guessing.

OK bottom line for this "Trans Girl" is that I don't know whether I will live 24/7 as a woman, have GRS or even if I will get HRT because of my other internal damage.  I am and have been a female spirited person since earliest memory, although the female was a concept I had not defined early on.  I was a boy because the doctor said I was, and I mistakenly thought all boys were like I was!!!  I can be big about it, that was a terrible mistake on my part.  I have a sister who is much more "one of the boys" even during her precious girlhood than I ever was!! 

I have noticed a large number of people claiming to be "Transgendered" with no claim to being or becoming their pretend gender.  Many of these are on a "bandwagon" rock 'em and shock 'em trip.  They are expressing their "individuality" much as gang bangers wear Oakland Raiders gear.  How individual is that? 

Meanwhile, "Transgendered" is a term that I feel about the same as I do the lable "Alcoholic".  "Hi I'm Vicky and I am a Transgenderedalcoholic".  (deliberate word fusion)  "Hi Vicky!"  It describes a condition for the public horror or enlightenment, but in no way invites knowledge of the individual which is what is really needed.  I am a person, not a social phenomenae or an epithet.  Yes I do see people that use Transgendered in a way that "disses" all of us that simply need a short answer to why are you dressed funny?

Quote from: Sebastien on April 17, 2009, 12:51:32 AM
I'm not necessarily proud to be trans, because it's certainly not something I chose... however, I am proud to be who I am, and being trans is part of that, albeit a small part. I refuse to be ashamed of it, as I refuse to be "stealth".

Somebody said this, but I can't find the post on here... if more of us were open and upfront about being trans, and weren't ashamed of it, perhaps more people who are in the closet would have the courage to be themselves.

Early in this process I was talking to my minister about being transgendered.  I was bemoaning the (perceived) fact that it would be easier to be gay.  She pointed out that is because everyone either knows someone who is gay or knows of someone who is gay but may not know that they know someone who is trans.  (I hope that makes sense. )  She said maybe if I was more open about it more people would realize they know someone trans. 

That helped me a lot.  When I would have doubts about moving forward toward full openness and transition, I would remember that part of what I'm doing is social activism.  That thought would give me the courage to continue moving forward.  I'm doing this for me, but in a way I'm also doing it for those still in the closet.

Quote from: tekla on April 17, 2009, 12:55:15 AM
Gay people became empowered when they took the power.  They stood up, in public and said, "We're here, we're queer, get used to it."  When enough of them did that, it became a force. 

It has nothing to do with choice, but it has everything to do with being willing to take a public stand about who you are and what you are.

Exactly.

I hope to live most of the rest of my life as a woman.  As Miniar said (better than I can) I'm not going to wear a sign that I'm trans, but I don't expect to hide that fact.

If necessary I will stand up for my right to be who I was born to be and to stand with you for your right to be who you were born to be.  The rest of the time I just want to be Katherine.

- Kate

I wish I could rename this topic "People Who are Female and Who are Not Ashamed of Also being Transgendered."  The current title seems to presume that the two are mutually exclusive.  That rubs me the wrong way.

Quote from: tekla on April 17, 2009, 12:22:23 AM
I do think one can (choose) to change any behavior they want to.  People do it all the time and get paid millions of dollars for it.  They call it acting.

In fact, its very, very hard to do in a way that is compelling and convincing, which is why they get paid that much.

That, and that's not at all what acting is all about.

It's exactly what acting is about.. Acting is nothing more than playing the role of someone else (behaviors and attitudes).  Simply put, it's something trans people have years of experience in.. I've always said that trans people would make the best actors ever.

Quote from: Sebastien on April 17, 2009, 12:51:32 AMYes, I am a man... one with breasts and a vagina, and one who has to give himself weekly injections to feel like himself. And I'm certainly not ashamed of that.

I am. Sigh. Yes, I still am. I still think of myself as a freak. I guess that's from decades of self-conditioning and internal reinforcement.

But I'm also having a particularly bad day today. Tomorrow might be better.

I was watching a youtube video of a girl that says she is what is becoming more and more prevalent among us as a non-op transsexual woman. Of course, there are many girls and boys in the community who choose for whatever reason to not have surgery. However, this girl's reason for not wanting to have surgery is plain outright offensive to me and other girls who have and want to have Viginoplasty. Rather than draw attention to her youtube video, she says, her reason for not wanting to have surgery is because she feels that the surgery only leads to a imitation, not real, cosmetic imitation vagina. I was deeply offended by this as well many of the trans-women on Youtube. Yet, she felt as if we were attacking her by sending her comments that her choice of words was offense. She compared her reasons for not wanting surgery with those of trans-men. She says that trans-men often don't have the surgery because the results aren't real. The results aren't good enough.

This kind of talk brings back the very same excuses that cis-women try to use to say we aren't real women or men. How often have I heard cis-women say that a trans-women can never be a real woman because they weren't born just like them. Or, trans-women don't bleed or can't have babies so they can't be real women. I read one time how an African American man came down on Isis King from ANTM saying that she is an insult to men and women because she can't bleed or have babies. I was shocked and applaud at the ignorance people have towards not only the trans community, but also the intersexed community.

As an intersexed woman forced to live her childhood as a boy, I know first hand what's it like to be something you are not simply because people choose to ignore the facts. This girl has insulted not only the trans-women, but all women who have had Viginoplasty right down to women who have viginal agensis. 1 in 5,000 females in this world are born without a vagina. They have to go through the same proceedure as some intersexed women and trans-women must go through. The exception to the rule is that, they don't have penile or scrotum skin to line the neo-vagina. Thus they doctors have to use full-thickness skin grafts.

So for anyone to stand in the face of any woman and say to her, your not a real woman or your vagina isn't real because you weren't born with one is simply ignorant. 

Now with that said, I have nothing against trans-women who do not want to have surgery. That's their business. But please, if you are reading this and you consider yourself a non-op trans-woman, don't take on the notion that viginoplasty only leads to a imitation, not real, cosmetic imitation vagina.

Quote from: JasmineG on April 17, 2009, 01:24:51 PM
I was watching a youtube video of a girl that says she is what is becoming more and more prevalent among us as a non-op transsexual woman. Of course, there are many girls and boys in the community who choose for whatever reason to not have surgery. However, this girl's reason for not wanting to have surgery is plain outright offensive to me and other girls who have and want to have Viginoplasty. Rather than draw attention to her youtube video, she says, her reason for not wanting to have surgery is because she feels that the surgery only leads to a imitation, not real, cosmetic imitation vagina. I was deeply offended by this as well many of the trans-women on Youtube. Yet, she felt as if we were attacking her by sending her comments that her choice of words was offense. She compared her reasons for not wanting surgery with those of trans-men. She says that trans-men often don't have the surgery because the results aren't real. The results aren't good enough.

This kind of talk brings back the very same excuses that cis-women try to use to say we aren't real women or men. How often have I heard cis-women say that a trans-women can never be a real woman because they weren't born just like them. Or, trans-women don't bleed or can't have babies so they can't be real women. I read one time how an African American man came down on Isis King from ANTM saying that she is an insult to men and women because she can't bleed or have babies. I was shocked and applaud at the ignorance people have towards not only the trans community, but also the intersexed community.

As an intersexed woman forced to live her childhood as a boy, I know first hand what's it like to be something you are not simply because people choose to ignore the facts. This girl has insulted not only the trans-women, but all women who have had Viginoplasty right down to women who have viginal agensis. 1 in 5,000 females in this world are born without a vagina. They have to go through the same proceedure as some intersexed women and trans-women must go through. The exception to the rule is that, they don't have penile or scrotum skin to line the neo-vagina. Thus they doctors have to use full-thickness skin grafts.

So for anyone to stand in the face of any woman and say to her, your not a real woman or your vagina isn't real because you weren't born with one is simply ignorant. 

Now with that said, I have nothing against trans-women who do not want to have surgery. That's their business. But please, if you are reading this and you consider yourself a non-op trans-woman, don't take on the notion that viginoplasty only leads to a imitation, not real, cosmetic imitation vagina.

I think your passion over this issue has caused you to read in too much to what this girl said.  She seems to have merely stated HER reason for not wanting vaginoplasty - not making a statement about all those who do receive it.  For them it is good enough, for her it is not.  Seems pretty open and shut to me.

Quote from: glendagladwitch on April 17, 2009, 09:50:25 AM
I wish I could rename this topic "People Who are Female and Who are Not Ashamed of Also being Transgendered."  The current title seems to presume that the two are mutually exclusive.  That rubs me the wrong way.

Agreed.

Quote from: interalia on April 17, 2009, 01:29:24 PM
I think your passion over this issue has caused you to read in too much to what this girl said.  She seems to have merely stated HER reason for not wanting vaginoplasty - not making a statement about all those who do receive it.  For them it is good enough, for her it is not.  Seems pretty open and shut to me.

And that's ok. Everyone has their reason for why or why not they choose to have or not have SRS. Yet, to say that SRS is only imitation of a genetic female is insulting no matter how you try to read between the lines.

I would never walk up to any FTM that does decide to have phalloplasty and say, "I think yours is cosmetic and an imitation vs. a genetic male is real." It's not just me who has recognized this and I only posted here because I thought this was the place to express my concern. I have started a separate thread in the non-op section asking all non-op to please be careful what they say.

I don't my words are insulting to anyone to ask a simple plea, watch what you say. If you haven't notice, this is common trend starting to pop up among non-op trans-women and it really is causing me to not even want to identify with any trans community because of it.

God help me if I went to an AIS convention and one of the girls stood up and said we are imitation of real women because we don't bleed or can't have babies and doctors had to help us enjoy our lives as females. This would never be said in the intersex community and I don't think it should be said within the trans community.

If a trans-woman or trans-man feels that the surgery is unacceptable to her or him, I can understand that. Let's leave it at that. Because I belong to a group of women (1 in 5,000) who was not born with a vagina and will have to have or have already had surgical procedures to create one and they are very happy. To add to insult that we are imitation of real women is just unacceptable to me.

Quote from: JasmineG on April 17, 2009, 04:28:55 PM
To add to insult that we are imitation of real women is just unacceptable to me.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said that, so I'm a little confused at what you're getting at.  What the original poster was getting at is that she doesn't understand why women who happen to have been born in male bodies don't just call themselves 'women'.  She wants to know why they still use transgendered/transsexual (or intersexed, if that happens to be the case). 

Quote
I wish I could rename this topic "People Who are Female and Who are Not Ashamed of Also being Transgendered."  The current title seems to presume that the two are mutually exclusive.  That rubs me the wrong way.

The new topic name RUBS me in the wrong way.

Old: People who WANT to be a transgender and not female? - Not properly worded it seems. But talks about that some transgender persons dont want/use/etc the identification as female. Happens and it brings a lot of questions.

New: Those who are female and also not afraid of being transgendered - Its like you are saying rejecting the TG label its wrong. I call BS on this one.

I don't think she was saying that trans women are immitations of women, just their vaginas are immitations of natal vaginas.. There really isn't any argument there really.  It is what it is.  Does it look and function the same?  For the most part yes.... But that doesn't make it the same.

Given the option, what would you choose, one that was grown naturally since your birth, or one that was made from the penis you once had?

Yeah.. that's what I thought.

Quote from: Zelane on April 18, 2009, 12:00:30 AMNew: Those who are female and also not afraid of being transgendered - Its like you are saying rejecting the TG label its wrong. I call BS on this one.

Why?

Because they are some persons who dislike the TG label (I wont go into details or discussion on that, too extensive) And what if they are female, gender female, identify as female but not TG.

Its like saying... that those that dont use the label are scared of things, etc, etc (which bring me to the so old discussion of stealth vs out)


I think the OP was referring to some persons who are TG/TS (leaning to the female side) but they dont refer to themselves as female or woman. Or something like... "Im just a woman, no matter what my body might say"

Something like that. I knew one TG girl that she says she was gay (homosexual man) That was due to the culture of the place where she grew up and transitioned. And that was how others told her was her label and identity. I told her that no, that she was a girl (not only physical but her vibe)

Another person I knew she had transitioned social roles several years ago. But she told me she wasnt sure if she felt female or was female. Like something was missing was her answer (actually she just had FFS but not SRS and later told me ti was because of not having SRS)