Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 23, 2009, 10:34:49 PM"Also before I go further I will apologize to Lori for speaking about his family in front of her so to speak."

Huh? Can you clarify that sentence for us, LR?

Firstly I corrected the word "His" to "Her" in the original sentence and secondly It was obvious to me that Lori is reading these posts as we write them.  It's as if you and I were talking about her with her standing right there; very rude in normal circumstances.

-={LR}=-

Oh, ok. It was the his/her thing, I thought I just missed something. Lori is my sis, I always talk about her in third person. Lol, love ya Lori

My situation is a bit similiar, Lori....but I agree totally with Ladyrider regarding wives.  Although, I told my wife (at least about dressing) soon after we were married, I kept it a secret for most of our marriage...until a year and a half ago.  Her reaction was not positive, which is pretty much par for the course.  But, I knew from my earliest memories that I was different...and, that I wanted to be a girl.  I suspect you did as well.  I didn't need to be diagnosed as trans.  I just needed to be at the point in my life where the desire to transition overcame the fear.
Should my wife accept and understand it?  Is it fair to her to accept the fact that I have changed?  But, don't I have the right to be happy?
At this point, we are together....as sisters.  We enjoy our relationship except for the romance part.  Neither of us are attracted to women.  She is a remarkable person, but, the exception. She is definitely not ecstatic about my change, and would prefer a husband, but at present is staying. Most wives choose to leave, and it doesn't make them selfish, or unreasonable.  It's their decision, just like transitioning is ours.  Being trans is not a choice, but transitioning is.  Be prepared for the consequences either way, but, hoping your current action plan will work seems remote at best.
Luckily my children are grown, and totally accepting.  It took my grandchildren (7 & 5) about 30 minutes to accept me.  I didn't have as much luck with my old friends, lost most of them.
Incidentally, I'm 58, and have been on hormones for almost a year, and full time since last Sept.  I honestly have never been as happy as I am now.  Whatever you decide, be true to yourself.

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 10:45:49 PM
Firstly I corrected the word "His" to "Her" in the original sentence and secondly It was obvious to me that Lori is reading these posts as we write them.  It's as if you and I were talking about her with her standing right there; very rude in normal circumstances.

-={LR}=-

I leave the browser open. I don't live in the threads I write. It may show I'm online and viewing the thread but I have 12 open windows for Firefox. I also have three kids. I'm not always there. I don't mean to be rude. I guess I could close that window and come back to it when I'm actually going to read the threads. But I won't. Not for you or anybody.

Get a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything.  If you think the good people of Fort Worth are conservative, wait till you meet one of the judges there.  If you just move you are setting yourself up for financial ruin.

Quote from: Lori on May 23, 2009, 11:11:12 PM
I leave the browser open. I don't live in the threads I write. It may show I'm online and viewing the thread but I have 12 open windows for Firefox. I also have three kids. I'm not always there. I don't mean to be rude. I guess I could close that window and come back to it when I'm actually going to read the threads. But I won't. Not for you or anybody.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said Lori...  I meant it was rude of me to be talking about you when you are standing right there.  Sorry for the confusion.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: tekla on May 23, 2009, 11:13:09 PM
Get a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything.  If you think the good people of Fort Worth are conservative, wait till you meet one of the judges there.  If you just move you are setting yourself up for financial ruin.

Lore, tekla's pretty right about that. And about setting yourself up for the abandonment charge as well.

As ever in TX it's gonna be the luck of the draw with the judge you get that's gonna decide, provided you don't leave until she physically moves you out, or has the FWPD do it.

Had a friend who did what your wife is suggesting. Her life has been hell for the past few years in trying to get unsupervised visitation with her child.

The situation with your step-children may well be decided differently especially if you didn't adopt them. Your wife may be able to keep you from all contact with them altogether no matter who the judge is.

But you need real life legal counsel to make an informed choice. And yes, no matter what else you feel or think about yourself, you need to do what you can to protect your interest at least in terms of your son. Moving to Oregon w/o a word to the children or some hard evidence that your wife suggested it and encouraged it and demanded it (and if she signs a notarized document to that effect she's crazy) is going to pretty much clinch the abandonment thing.

So get a real attorney, set aside whatever self-loathing and guilt you have in this matter and protect yourself at a minimum.

Like LR my usual stance is to understand the wife's position more than the TS's position. Since you're a friend that's harder to do without some equivocation, Lori. You should protect yourself and the best way will be with a divorce atty, preferably a really good one. I know, that costs. But if you want at least the relationship with your son then you better do that.

Wishing all five of you the smoothest and most positive outcome for all concerned.

N~

Lori,

You say that you had no idea you were TS prior to 2004 which suggests that your spouse had no idea either.  Maybe, in her mind, she thought you just had a crossdressing fetish and nothing more?

Honestly, as someone who had no experience of TS issues prior to my current relationship, I find this a bit odd given that you were taking hormones, albeit in tiny doses, prior to marriage with the support of your partner and now spouse.  If my partner was taking hormones, I'd definitely interpret that as a positive indication of transexuality.  I don't find it credible that one would know and support a partner taking hormones without ever thinking "hang on, this is more than a bloke who enjoys donning a pair of knickers for a thrill".

On the one hand, I would say that your spouse appears to have known and accepted your TS tendencies prior to marriage and therefore has a moral obligation to work through the situation as best as she can, without seeking to amputate you from her life or that of your children.

On the other hand, if you yourself claim you had no idea that you were TS prior to 2004, then that suggests there is no reasonable reason for expecting your spouse to have any obligation to accept or work through this with you - aside from trying to minimize the impact on your children but that's for their benefit, not for you or your spouse.

It's a very unfortunate situation.  You can certainly invite your spouse to talk this through, in the company of a relevent therapist if possible.  I would certainly explore how you both truly interpreted your pre-marital tendencies to be, in case that helps with the adjustment to the current situation.

Good luck.

Quote from: teklaGet a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything.

If I may add something... its important for your own peace of mind that you dont view getting legal advice as firing a shot across the bough. Unfortunately many view seeking an attorney as a race to effectively "raise shields" before firing a volley of photon torpedoes. The challenge of course is to find a compentant and non-emotional attorney who is more interested in dispensing advice than in gaining a new client. I cannot stress in strong enough terms you need to protect your rights as a parent. Viewed from that vantage point you will find the strength to do what you need to legally without feeling like you betrayed your wife by running for shelter first.

My experience lies strictly with the New York state family court system, probably one of the most dysfunctional and corrupt legal entities in the nation. If Texas is anything like New York, you will need all of the protection you can get.

I wish you godspeed on this difficult journey... 

Keep in mind that about the only place women rule in the American system is in family court and divorce court, and in those two places, they come about as close to absolute as can happen.  Moreover, judges tend to represent (and FTR I think its a good thing, not a bad thing) the most conservative aspects of a community, not the liberal (if there even is such a thing in Fort Worth) aspects. 

It's possible the two of you might find some sort of reconciliation, just like it might be possible that John and George will rise from the dead and reunite the Beatles.  But don't bet on it.  She wants you gone, and suggested a way that is 100% in her best interests in terms of finances and custody, and 100% the exact other way for you.

And may I add...

When the lawyers get involved be prepared to rapidly loose control of things.  FWIW my ex and I went the "Do it yourself" route, cost - $750, result an amicable split and a happy ending.

-={LR}=-

Ok, after reading Stacy and LR I'm going to qualify again. Get a good attorney for advice. Don't hire one for the divorce and resist any attempt to have yourself pushed into getting a divorce by said atty.

You do need to know what you could face legally though.

N~

I disagree I don't think your wife is handling the situation right at all.  Yes I am young and don't know all the complications a real relationship has.  For your wife to do what she is doing and to justify it by saying "I never asked for this" is just being an ->-bleeped-<- all around.  I don't mean to judge but that is how it sounds.  I was born with CP and no one asked for it, does that mean that if my parents wanted to, they could have given me up because it isn't the healthy baby I seemed at first?  No one asks for half the crap they get in life does that make it ok for us to run from or discard what we did not "ask for?"  When you marry someone you share all responsibility and hardship.  You didn't lie, you yourself said you didn't know you had gender dysphoria, so how can someone hold it against you?  You said she helped give you hormone shots and helped you in dressing up.  So basically her philosophy was as long as your ->-bleeped-<- is our private little secret away from reality.  Why does she get to call the shots about what has to happen with you and your son?    She wasn't lied to at allm not really.  It's not like you knew about yourself and married her, then passed yourself off as a man.  You shouldn't blame your other problems like your paranoia or your cutting as reasons that she is right and that you are the absolute cause of all that is wrong.  Sorry for being judgmental.  You blame yourself when it isn't your fault at all. 

Hugs!!!

Yeah, get a good lawyer for advice, but be prepared for the worst.  As Margaret Mead would have it, 'better keep your powder dry' just in case the war breaks out.

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
I'm sorry but "For better or worse" is an antiquated notion.  Additionally I doubt very much that there are many therapists out there who have had professional experience with this type of situation, there are some of course.

You don't think a gender therapist has had families think of this idea, or have children to deal with? My therapist has dealt with hundreds of TS patients. I would be very surprised if she has not dealt with similar. I'm not claiming one would have all the answers but would be a better guide than nothing.


As for antiquated notions, just because divorce is so easy today doesn't mean you have to jump right to it at the first sign of trouble.

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 07:57:51 PM

I find it incredibly selfish of us to expect everyone to adjust to us, have to sacrifice for us, and to support us, when they didn't ask to be put in that situation.  Yes it's grand when wives do, but please don't expect it.

-=(LR}=-

Relationships need compromise from both parties, not "my way or the highway". Why is it acceptable for the TS partner to be exiled from their children? They didn't ask to be in the situation either.

First of all, sweetie, you are neither dirty, nor is this a secret.  Your wife knows and married you with this in mind.  Now is this time to get yourself in the best shape you can.  I agree with the posts about seeking legal advice.  But for the immediate time you need to get Lori up and functioning well.  Get out and begin to let Lori live.  Else, why even bother to transition?  In Texas, make her kick you out.  And find a way to make her put that in writing.  If not, she can and will take you to the cleaners. 

Love you, sis.  You are not alone in this.

Kristi

Let me be a little more clear on the "Not Knowing I'm TS" before 2004. I was wrong. It was 2003. I double checked the dates. I apologize for any confusion this may cause.

I had never been diagnosed before then. I knew I had a problem. I had more clothes and shoes than many GG's at that time. I wore makeup constantly and since I was 6 years old I had crossed dressed.

I never had a label for what I was. I'm the type of person that lives day to day. I find reasons to live and keep going. I have as my wife will put it, "a cocktail of issues".

I know I've looked into the mirror and have said, "OMG you are FK'D up". I'd be in skirt, heels, dressed to the 9's knowing I was messed up. I've been to gay bars, lesbian bars, and some of the gayest areas of Dallas and loved it. I know its not normal behavior. When I was 10 I would go to the local grocery store in Denver and steal makeup to wear at night. That is not normal behaviour. I know that now. A crazy person doesn't really know they are crazy???

I had a really bad childhood. I don't think and act like many in society. I've been over beaten so many times when I was a child,  I had to use to cold tile floor in the basement to ease the pain and bruising just to stand up and walk. I spent the first couple years of my life on the floor eating with the dogs. I'm not one to go and get help for personal issues. I try to deal with them. I'm in no way trusting, and even though I've had two diagnosises of my being TS I didn't listen and believe. I have been told that I would need HRT the rest of my life I'd end up dead or in a nut house yet I tempt fate and go on and off them, because I don't believe those that said it. I'm finding out really fast, being TS is not a joke. It is a real issue, a real problem and without my meds, I'm simply miserable.

Again, my first diagnosis was not until 2003. My wife was the one that figured it out. I was on hrt again from Mexico at that time. Self medicating. I went to Dr. Catherine Long over in Plano for GID therapy. At that time my chosen name was Cindy. She saw I had been self medicating and immediately sent me to an endo at SW Medical Center. That is also when I had a Karyotype done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyotype


It came back normal and that pretty much told me I was not TS. In my mind at that time. I wanted an excuse, a reason, a sympathy card to pull out and use for transitioning. Why? Because I know first hand how mean people are capable of being. I just didn't see doing it over what was in my head. What if I'm too messed up and wrong?




I don't want to have to deal with this. I just want to close my eyes and have it all go away. I don't want to have to divorce, or move out. I don't want to talk to a lawyer to find out what my "options are". I just want to get fixed. I've paid my dues in life.

Maybe I can be prescribed diazepam, thioridazine, or haloperidol by my Paranoid Personality Disorder therapist.

Lori,

My heart breaks for you, but unfortunately I think Lady Rider is right

You cannot force somebody (anybody) to accept you.  You cannot force someone to go to therapy to understand.  It is these truths that make many people choose to not transition ... It is those fears and realizations that have caused me to resist transitioning for many, many years ... and I still fear that my decisions will hurt my wife or cause her to leave me.

Only you can weigh the issues and decide what is the proper choice ... What will bring the highest level of happiness and fulfillment to your life, not necessarily what will cause the least pain.

Oh she has been to therapy with me. In fact she dragged me to the last one. You'd have to meet my wife. Nobody makes her do anything she doesn't want to do. She understands probably more so than I do. She KNOWS I'm trans. She will argue that fact with you. I think it just pisses her off I don't trust in the diagnosis. She understands how tough a decision to transition is and the fears and issues it brings. She knows better than most.

She knows I'm a diagnosed a TS on HRT but cannot make decisions for me. I'm on my own at deciding what to do. I've been back and forth so many times I flat wore her down. She's done with it.  She is still allowing me to spend our money on HRT, hair and laser.

I'm not sure where I gave the impression that I wanted her to be forced into accepting my transition. She really wants what is best for me. What messes me up is the leaving the state thing. I'm like "WTF". I am to be cast out with the bath water and not allowed back until everything is done.

It makes me so sad and sick to my stomach. She's as afraid of what will happen to her kids being around a trans as I am about being one. She knows I'm no threat, its other people.

But realize I have Paranoid Personality Disorder. I have a host of fears. I'm pretty sure after 9 years with me those fears have bled over and I bet most are unfounded. But who wants to risk getting their kids involved with some bible wielding a-hole that interpreted it in their own way and is going to use it against us and have our children taken away from the sinner trans?

People are really passionate about gender and sex. Guys just don't do certain things. Girls can do whatever. But the guy doing this must mean I'm gay and a pedophile and its all about sex don't you know?

Goddamn Jerry Springer.

I have no doubt she will leave me. She won't be married to a woman. She is straight.

I don't know what to do. Just keep taking the stuff and wait for stuff to hit the fan. Once I get a grip on the other issues it may just clear the road. I don't know, for only time will tell.