I realize my perspective is skewed because I am transitioning in a small town, but I wonder if it is even possible to transition in stealth.  Several people have posted things where they think they can transition without anyone noticing.  Is that even possible?

Last night I ran into a gorgeous lesbian I haven't seen in about a year.  We had been friendly acquaintances.  I had to re-introduce myself, saying I used to be <male name> but am Kate now.  She didn't make the connection at first but once she did we had a friendly talk.  I suppose I could have just pretended we had never known each other.

Today I went to get clip-ons for my prescription glasses.  I also asked about prescription sunglasses (too expensive ).  The young man helping me wanted to look up my prescription in their computer, so I told him my name and the name he had me as in his records.  He was very friendly and helpful, but I had to go through the routine again when talking to the 40-something receptionist who handles the money and the records.  She, too, was very friendly and helpful and made the change as if I had moved to a new address or something.   Yeah, I suppose I could have pretended to be somebody else, but it was a lot easier to be up front with them.  Plus, I had the fun of chatting with them both.

Because of these and lots of other experiences, I just don't understand why you would want to transition in stealth or how you could manage it.   Anyone?

- Kate

The only way that I know of would be to legally change your name prior to your transition and then once you start presenting as the other gender, then they have your name in their records already. I think you'd only run into a problem if there's someplace you go all the time and you know the people involved.

You need to work more on passing, Kate, in order to be stealth. You pose and give expresssions like a woman but you need work on passing physically- look like a CD.

Work more on your skin, hair, jaw and cheeks mostly. Then it will be possible after you take care of the papers and legal documents.

Dr Lyn Conway, one of IBM's brilliant computer architecture designers, that helped design the IBM 370 line of general purpose computers which became IBM's most successful mainframe series of computers, *had* to transition in stealth.

When she disclosed to her managers that she was going to change her gender she was summarily fired.

She had to rebuild her life from the ground up.  Start from scratch as an "entry level" designer and rebuild her career.  It took her ten years.

Unfortunately, she was too good.  After rebuilding a successful career AGAIN as a computer designer her past was revealed and she was outed by an investigative reporter doing background on some of the pioneers of IBM's history.

In the intervening years, IBM has drastically modified it's EEOC policies and now embraces LGBT diversity and has an HRC CEI of 100%.

It used to mean that stealth was just that.  Walk away from EVERYTHING.  Change jobs, change careers, change location, change everything, lose everything you hold dear, family, friends, money.  Then lie to everyone about your past.  And have to produce doctored or made up documentation about yourself so that you can get employment.  Then lie, tap dance or remain mum about discussions about your past.

It was kind of like a DIY witness protection program, without the protection.

There are some even here on this site who had to walk away from their lives because they were ostracized from their love and lives.

Now, times have changed.  We don't have to go stealth.  We can just be snickered at and discriminated against sometimes, but not always.  But the fight goes on.  And maybe it may not always be so.

I think Dr. Conway would be happy to see that day.

I'm sorry, Kate, you kind of pushed a button with me.  I'm just a bit on the soap box right now because of Pride month and all.

The fact that you can transition as easily as you have been able to has been because of the raising of awareness that people like Dr. Conway, and others have done.

You, Kate, are your own kind of pioneer.  By being in a small town as you have said, you are raising awareness of those who know you.  This is change at a grass roots level.  Person by person, town by town, bit by bit, people are looking at people as ourselves not as perverts or freaks, but people.  Just people who have a birthright to life and equality.  And really we are not so different at all.

I'm proud of you Kate!

-Sandy

Thanks, Sandy.

I don't want to belittle those who had to do this by stealth in any way.  I looked into trying to do this in the early 80s and wasn't strong enough to fight the culture at that time.  I would have lost everythng and just couldn't do it.  The only reason I can do this now is because of those - like Dr Conway - who have done it before me.

Times have changed.  Now we have the internet, Susan's, serious movies about transeuals, etc.  When you say you are transgendered, most people have an idea of what that is and don't think they have to call the police.

Yes, I was scared before I began.  Yes, I get scared sometimes still.  But I get so much strength from my friends and from the people I meet daily that I want to tell everyone: Gather your supporters and go forward.  If you don't have supporters, work to get some before you start because you will need them.  This a difficult process, and ultimately a lonely one.  Don't try to do this on your own.  You will be found out.  Just accept that and work with it.  Keep your head high and a smile on your face and the telephone numbers of your therapist and some close friends.

Now I will get off my soapbox and go polish my nails...

- Kate

I never liked IBM anyway.

If I had the power too I would have destroy IBM right now and mess up all the careers of those managers who fired that TS.

They suck and their computers are garbage- hope they file chapter 11.

Quote from: Tanya1 on June 15, 2009, 09:11:03 PM
I never liked IBM anyway.

If I had the power too I would have destroy IBM right now and mess up all the careers of those managers who fired that TS.

They suck and their computers are garbage- hope they file chapter 11.

What's the matter, Tanya, are you pissed because your Sun stock tanked?

BTW: The 1400 series, 360 series, 370 series, 30xx series of mainframes put quite a bit of food on aunt Sandy's table.  I wouldn't bash them unnecessarily.  Been a mainframe sysprog for quite a long time until *nix took me over which includes Solaris and AIX.

So instead of COBOL, BAL, and PL1, now it's C/C++, PERL, AWK and JAVA.

Bits are bits.

-Sandy

-Sandy

I am transitioning in the open.  Ok I am not walking around with "Transsexual" on my forehead, but many people know my past.  New people don't.  With them, it is kinds like "the names and pronouns have been changed to protect the innocent", namely me. 

And don't forget visual basic, Sandy.

Janet

Down with VB! Up with Python! 

Regarding IBM - Thinkpads, Ultrastar SCSI drives and NUMA support in Linux. You can hate the company, hate their firing policies, but that doesn't mean they didn't put out some good kit.

Ahem....

As others have said, I don't really think it's possible to transition in complete stealth these days. The background checks run too deep.

Physical changes don't happen overnight, and you can't exactly seal yourself away in a locked closet while you go through the "awkward stage".  Somebody, somewhere is going to notice - especially before you get your paperwork changed over.

The concept of stealth bothers me a little.

The original question is simply answerable with No, unless you leave everything and everyone you know, go transition in a convent, and then move to a whole new city, there is no way to transition in stealth that I can think of.

Quote from:  Wikipedia.comStealth
The term stealth is used to refer to a person who passes as their desired gender at all times, and who has broken contact with everybody who knew their gender history. Thus, everybody around them is unaware that they were not always of the gender presented, and they are effectively invisible within the population of their current gender. In order to live in stealth, an individual has to be extremely passable.

History
Jennie Irene Hodgers, dressed as Albert Cashier, was an Irish-born soldier in the Union Army during the United States' Civil War.
Historically, there have been circumstances wherein people have impersonated the opposite gender for reasons other than gender identity. The most common other reason was for women disguising themselves as men in order to become soldiers.

The emphasis is mine.  That is what most of socitiey see us who are stealth.

Janet

Quote from: K8 on June 13, 2009, 07:16:44 PM
I realize my perspective is skewed because I am transitioning in a small town, but I wonder if it is even possible to transition in stealth.  Several people have posted things where they think they can transition without anyone noticing.  Is that even possible?

Last night I ran into a gorgeous lesbian I haven't seen in about a year.  We had been friendly acquaintances.  I had to re-introduce myself, saying I used to be <male name> but am Kate now.  She didn't make the connection at first but once she did we had a friendly talk.  I suppose I could have just pretended we had never known each other.

Today I went to get clip-ons for my prescription glasses.  I also asked about prescription sunglasses (too expensive ).  The young man helping me wanted to look up my prescription in their computer, so I told him my name and the name he had me as in his records.  He was very friendly and helpful, but I had to go through the routine again when talking to the 40-something receptionist who handles the money and the records.  She, too, was very friendly and helpful and made the change as if I had moved to a new address or something.   Yeah, I suppose I could have pretended to be somebody else, but it was a lot easier to be up front with them.  Plus, I had the fun of chatting with them both.

Because of these and lots of other experiences, I just don't understand why you would want to transition in stealth or how you could manage it.   Anyone?

- Kate

I guess I'm the odd one here.

I'm not really saying anything to anybody. My office manager knows, a few employees know and that's about it. I'm steady on a high dose of HRT now and must wear a sports bra everyday or "they" would certainly show. I look much younger now, my hair is getting thicker and I certainly am starting to look different. I wear male looking shoes from the women's dept, I file my nails, wear bra and panties and girl socks everyday, and pluck my eyebrows yet people seem oblivious. I use more lotion than most of the women here and won't go for more than an hour without Burt's Bees Lip Balm on my lips. I also wear a pink bracelet everyday. Again, most people seem completely unaware.

Well, let me take that back. There seems to be a LOT more emphasis on the SIRS and "you are such a guy" and "male", "a boy", and whatever. It is like the longer I'm on hrt and the more female I present myself the more male people see. I think the chemical signatures are confusing them and they have to insist on what their eyes are telling them and vocally express the fact that I am indeed male no matter how mixed and crossed their signals are.

My weight loss continues, I'm tanning so I have a healthy glow, my facial hair is slowly disappearing, and I look ok I guess on the outside to many of the women I work with. They seem to want to touch me a LOT more which is making me rather nervous. I'm like a gay friend now.

My insides tell another story. Deep down, I've been shredded, confused, depressed, saddened, heartbroken and not a day goes by where I don't feel like slashing my wrists. Every sir is like another paper cut. The harder I try the more the world seems to be against me. So I continue my stealth transition, quietly taking my stuff daily, putting up the front and hanging in there until one day if this stuff actually works on me, and wait for the time when things will come to a head.

People see what they want to see. There is little to no education about Gender or sexual education in this country. Its just one of those things taken for granted. There is no way a guy should be a girl. Or even girly. Girls can wear pants, cuss, act like men or be tough. They can be prissy sweet and cute and feminine too.

A guy being anything but tough and a guy is unacceptable. Why is it if we are all human, if females feel the need to act tough or male or not be girly for a day its ok? But if a male needs to relax and not be a guy guy for a day it is not acceptable? Why is there such a huge double standard?

I work with over 100 women now on a daily basis. I'm in a really tough spot. I'm sure what I am doing is not really smart or advisable. I don't care, and personally am not interested in doing it any other way. It is my personal decision and until I know HRT will work on me as a whole ..not just growing boobs, I really don't feel like "Coming out" only to find out I need 75k in surgeries that I don't have just to pull it off.

If HRT really works on me, we will all know and I'll cross that bridge at that time and face the consequences of my actions at that time. Life is painful enough for me and impossible without HRT so I am at a point where I have no other choice but to try to stay alive, and keep going on and try to be as nice and friendly to as many people as I can be in hopes that if the HRT does work I'll have some allies on the other side. At my age and condition I am not holding up much hope. I guess people do get lucky. Here's to luck and a stealth transition.

Lori, hon, I'm not sure why you are doing it this way.  I am not being critical.  Each of us has to do it our own way.  I worry about you and don't understand.

Quote from: Lori on June 16, 2009, 07:48:28 AM
Deep down, I've been shredded, confused, depressed, saddened, heartbroken and not a day goes by where I don't feel like slashing my wrists. Every sir is like another paper cut. The harder I try the more the world seems to be against me. So I continue my stealth transition, quietly taking my stuff daily, putting up the front and hanging in there until one day if this stuff actually works on me, and wait for the time when things will come to a head.

Can you enlist the world to help you rather fighting against it?  Do you have a plan for when things come to a head?

Quote from: Lori on June 16, 2009, 07:48:28 AM
I'm in a really tough spot. I'm sure what I am doing is not really smart or advisable. I don't care, and personally am not interested in doing it any other way. It is my personal decision and until I know HRT will work on me as a whole ..not just growing boobs, I really don't feel like "Coming out" only to find out I need 75k in surgeries that I don't have just to pull it off.

What do you mean, the hormones working on you as a whole?  As for the money, can't you live full time without getting surgery?  Wouldn't you be happier even without the genital surgery?

Again, I am not criticising - I am just trying to understand.  You are in agony doing it this way.  What is driving you to go through such agony?  Are you working with a therapist?

Good luck on your journey and may each step become easier.

*{hugs}*
Kate

1) I don't know how else to explain it. Most therapists I see say, "I can't figure you out" or "You don't fit any normal/regular patterns".

2) I'm not crying out for help. This is not a desperate attempt at anything nor do I mean to confuse anybody.

3) I'm tired.

4) I have serious trust issues so enlisting somebody with my level of paranoia is probably why I have to do it the way I am. I'm constantly suspicious and worried.

5 )I start seeing a new therapist tonight. I promised my spouse I would try something before doing anything to myself. I struggle each and everyday and find excuses to keep going. Again I'm very tired. I've run out of the will to live. I'm just going through motions at this point.

6) What I meant on hormones working on me is I've seen some people transform in their before and after pics. They look like brother and sister. I've seen them do it without FFS. I mean they literally turn from men into women on HRT. I've seen others that still looked like men after 5 years of hrt and srs. I cannot live like that. I won't live like that. That is my personal decision to not do it.

I cannot afford surgeries for FFS and body sculpting. I can live without srs for a while because society doesn't see that. You pass from the neck up and what can be seen. How you carry yourself and your attitude. A vagina does not make you a woman. Plenty of FTM's to prove that one. I would like for HRT to help transform me into a female in body. I know I won't get hips and a big butt and other things but I've certainly seen plenty of GG's with no hips and no butt.

I want to feel like I want to live. I want to be happy. I want to stop the destruction of my feet. I waged war on them the last two days and once again had to wear two pairs of socks just to stand up. My ankles are sore because I cannot walk normally without pain. I'm hoping my therapist can figure out a way to stop that. My chest feels like a black hole where I've digested all the negativity and heartache and pain in my life and in this world and stored it in there and now its full. I have to find a way of emptying it without spilling my blood out of my veins and I cannot find a way to do it. I'm running out of time and not sleeping. I sit up at night scared because I feel like I am suffocating. It is like death has its icy, gray, cold hands squeezing the breath out of my very chest. I want to get up and just cry and make it all go away. I don't know what is wrong with me.

I've made my therapist aware of what is going on with me and if she cannot help, I can go see another one. I have a few to go see and I am going to get help. I also understand it may take some time before I can become healthy enough mentally to continue a will to live.

I know I'm difficult to understand and you don't have to dance around on thin ice for me. Just know I'll be in agony anyway I go and this is the way I have chosen because it puts the least pressure on me. The last thing I need is more pressure and to worry about fulfilling unrealistic expectations I am in no way prepared to deliver on. This is what I have today at this moment and tomorrow is a new day. I'll worry about it when it comes.

You can't ever transition in 100% secrecy.  You've got to file things in court, tell your parents, etc.

But can you go through your transition without it being a public display?  Sure.  Change your audience and no one will be the wiser.

Lori:

Hon, I understand completely how you feel!  I have felt that way as well.  I'm sure others have too.  You are not alone in your fears.  You have described them quite well, so it sounds like you are methodical, but confused perhaps.

Let's see if we can discuss your issues as you've described them:

1) If your therapist says that they can't figure you out, you have the wrong therapist.  Change that one and get another.  Please look for a therapist who has training in gender identity issues.  Discuss that up front.  Suicide and self image issues most therapists have quite extensive training in, but gender issues, not quite as many.

2) Many times I would post my feelings simply to allow myself the opportunity to organize my issues in my head so I could discuss them.  I was so confused and bewildered, I really didn't know which way was up.  It sounds like you are doing the same here.  Good!  Discussion is part of the process.  It allows you to discuss your feelings and fears, though really the best place to truly discuss your issues is with a therapist you can trust.  Realize the advice you get from here is worth what you paid for it.  We are not experts so don't rely on us for having all the answers.

3) Depression causes exhaustion.  Exhaustion can lead to depression.  It can be a vicious cycle.

4) Trust issues with the types of things people like us have to deal with are understandable.  You've held these things inside you for so long and you perhaps feel very vulnerable if someone would find out.  Again, developing a relationship with a therapist that you can trust and discuss all your issues with is key to your health.

5) I hope this new therapist has had some impact or that is a person who you can trust.  Let us know how it goes.  Each day can be a struggle, but truly there is hope.  There can be a time where this is not part of you any longer.  Have hope.  If nothing else, hold on to that thought.  Please if you feel that you are going to do harm to yourself, please call someone, anyone.  The suicide prevention hotline is 1.800.SUICIDE (784-2433), please call them!

6) The nature of hormones has a lot to do with your body as it is.  If you haven't figured it out, going on HRT is going through a second puberty.  The human body was only designed really to do that once so it is a bit of a crap shoot.  HRT can only have an effect on soft tissue.  Hard tissue and bone will not be affected.  So one of the reasons some MTF's look a lot more fem is mainly due to the amount of soft tissue in the face and the masculinization that occurs in late male puberty.  The ravages of testosterone can be severe. 

Remember though, your femininity comes from the inside, the more you "feel" feminine, the more you will express it in your appearance.

We don't know what you look like so it's hard to judge.  But many factors go into creating the image of femininity that you see on the street.  Makeup, wardrobe, presentation and confidence all play into that.

Yes the face is what everyone uses to judge gender more often than not.  You can have a true feminine presentation with HRT effects and the power of makeup, hair and wardrobe.  Also going through facial hair removal through electrolysis or laser will be very helpful.  Also learn to take care of your skin.

If you haven't started HRT yet, you have no idea what the effects will be.  Your doctor won't be able to tell either.  Puberty affects people different ways.  The only way you can find out is to try.

FFS and body sculpting is completely cosmetic and unfortunately few if any insurance plans cover it.  But it is not a requirement.

If you make the decision to live, to transition, you may find a load has been lifted off your shoulders.  It is a daunting task to say the least, but it can be done.  And on the other side life can be so beautiful.

You may feel like you are in agony now, but you can overcome it.  With proper support you can become whole.

We are here for you, please know that you are not alone.

-Sandy

Quote from: Tanya1 on June 15, 2009, 05:41:22 PM
You need to work more on passing, Kate, in order to be stealth. You pose and give expresssions like a woman but you need work on passing physically- look like a CD.

Way to pull your punches, Tanya.

Quote from: Mister on June 16, 2009, 10:24:29 AM
You can't ever transition in 100% secrecy.  You've got to file things in court, tell your parents, etc.

As the kids say, THIS. 

Even if you lived as a man right up until your transition date, if you one day just started living full time, which some people do, I think the feminization of the male appearance will be a little obvious.  People will notice weight loss, or weight re-distribution, and start to think you're sick.  It happened to me at church.  I wasn't really out, and people thought I was ill.  Physically ill, not GID-crazy. 

I just don't think it's impossible to hide completely.  Especially not now.  The internet makes it much harder to just disappear. 

Lori--
Two things you said stuck out to me. 

The first was the comment about people not noticing what you're doing to your appearance at work.  I have to say that based on my own experience, people DO notice, and they just aren't saying anything.  You're at work, everyone's there to be professional, etc, and your business is your business.  Unless it affects your work, no one at work has a right to know what you're doing.  If you wear pink bracelets and pluck your eyebrows and whatever else, people won't care as long as you're still a good employee.  But don't think they haven't noticed.  They might not be able to pinpoint individual changes (i.e. you got your eyebrows waxed) but they will notice that you look different. 

When I was starting out, I was doing the same thing, feminizing my appearance a bit at a time, and people at work DID notice, they just didn't say anything.  I thought they were oblivious, but they were really just being awkwardly careful not to say anything about it.  Talk about the elephant in the room.  Being open with my co-workers actually helped lighten the atmosphere.  I started by telling people that I was doing laser hair removal, seeing a therapist.  Once I opened the subject, they felt comfortable to ask questions without the whole thing being awkward.  I wouldn't compare what I'm doing to someone like Lyn Conway, but I think that education at the grass-roots personal level is what's going to change acceptance for trans people in society.  One person at a time, I guess. 

The second thing you said was that

Quote from: Lori on June 16, 2009, 09:58:44 AM

...I've seen others that still looked like men after 5 years of hrt and srs. I cannot live like that. I won't live like that. That is my personal decision to not do it.

I cannot afford surgeries for FFS and body sculpting...I would like for HRT to help transform me into a female in body. I know I won't get hips and a big butt and other things but I've certainly seen plenty of GG's with no hips and no butt...I want to feel like I want to live. I want to be happy.

I think it's been said before with respect to surgery that it won't make your life 100% better.  IOW, if you had a crap life before SRS, chances are your life will still be crappy post-SRS, you'll just have a vagina instead.  IMO, the same kind of conventional wisdom applies to HRT and transition in general.  HRT will help to feminize your appearance, but it doesn't magically make all your other problems go away.  I have depression.  I've had it for years.  Some of it is GID related, but some of it is not.  Being on HRT, or socially transitioning, didn't make the depression go away, now I just get depressed about different things.  Learning to deal with those things is part of what makes transition so hard. 

If you put all your eggs in the basket of hope that HRT will make you into a girl, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.  I don't mean to be the pessimist here, but I am trying to be realistic and say that the kinds of things you're talking about are kind of scary-- "I won't live like that"  If HRT doesn't do what you want it to, are you saying you'll kill yourself?  I think a lot of us here have been suicidal or depressed to the point of suicide, and speaking from my own experience (which may or may not help you at all) it's important to find your reasons to live outside of how you look, outside of how smoothly transition goes and outside of anything except the part of you that says "there are things I still want to do, a life I still want to live.  I might not pass perfectly, or be a beautiful supermodel, but there's an advantage to living my life in as authentic a way as I can." 

I think Sandy has said some great things, and probably put everything more eloquently than I could.  Please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm just concerned, and like Sandy said, we're here for you, and talking about your issues and problems is good.  We're not experts, but we are here to support you. 

Love and hugs.

Can you transition in stealth?  That's easy - NO.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: Sandy on June 16, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
1) If your therapist says that they can't figure you out, you have the wrong therapist.  Change that one and get another.  Please look for a therapist who has training in gender identity issues.  Discuss that up front.  Suicide and self image issues most therapists have quite extensive training in, but gender issues, not quite as many.

I did. I ran as fast as I could.


2) Many times I would post my feelings simply to allow myself the opportunity to organize my issues in my head so I could discuss them.  I was so confused and bewildered, I really didn't know which way was up.  It sounds like you are doing the same here.  Good!  Discussion is part of the process.  It allows you to discuss your feelings and fears, though really the best place to truly discuss your issues is with a therapist you can trust.  Realize the advice you get from here is worth what you paid for it.  We are not experts so don't rely on us for having all the answers.

I try to avoid that too much because it just sticks in my face on how fk'd up I am and feel. I stare at it and wonder why I am still here. It just makes me cry and more depressed. I could handle just being TS now. I've accepted it. Fine I'm TS. Just transition and get it over with right?. Simple enough for many but not for me. I don't have physical issues many have fears about. I wear size 8 women's shoes, I'm 5'7", I have smaller hands than many of the women I work with and when all the weight comes off I should not stick out too bad if HRT will work. I'm not very masculine but I'm horribly depressed. Mentally I'm not well.  I've gone downhill quite a bit. It has a lot to do with PTSD. I don't really want to discuss most of my fears.

3) Depression causes exhaustion.  Exhaustion can lead to depression.  It can be a vicious cycle.

This I know too well.

4) Trust issues with the types of things people like us have to deal with are understandable.  You've held these things inside you for so long and you perhaps feel very vulnerable if someone would find out.  Again, developing a relationship with a therapist that you can trust and discuss all your issues with is key to your health.

Growing up being raped and beaten took its toll on me. I don't trust people because I know what people are capable of. I was beaten at times for just being there awake and standing there in the wrong spot.

5) I hope this new therapist has had some impact or that is a person who you can trust.  Let us know how it goes.  Each day can be a struggle, but truly there is hope.  There can be a time where this is not part of you any longer.  Have hope.  If nothing else, hold on to that thought.  Please if you feel that you are going to do harm to yourself, please call someone, anyone.  The suicide prevention hotline is 1.800.SUICIDE (784-2433), please call them!

Me 2. Dr. Gina Galloway. http://www.ginagalloway.com/

Mind you I'm not there to deal with being TS. I'm there to deal with the other monsters in my closet that are there. I know I'm in trouble. That is why I'm going. Again this is not a cry for help, threat, or a warning, or anything like that. Its just me saying If something doesn't change, and really soon, I won't be around. It is fact. I'm not even sad about it anymore. I'm just really tired and want to get away from it. The new therapist is well aware of my feelings, how I plan on doing it and I almost feel bad for her. I'd be really hesitant to pick up a client like me. I'm there to get help with the depression, find out why I'm so hell bent on dying, and to get to a state where I can deal with being TS

6) The nature of hormones has a lot to do with your body as it is.  If you haven't figured it out, going on HRT is going through a second puberty.  The human body was only designed really to do that once so it is a bit of a crap shoot.  HRT can only have an effect on soft tissue.  Hard tissue and bone will not be affected.  So one of the reasons some MTF's look a lot more fem is mainly due to the amount of soft tissue in the face and the masculinization that occurs in late male puberty.  The ravages of testosterone can be severe. 

Remember though, your femininity comes from the inside, the more you "feel" feminine, the more you will express it in your appearance.

We don't know what you look like so it's hard to judge.  But many factors go into creating the image of femininity that you see on the street.  Makeup, wardrobe, presentation and confidence all play into that.

Yes the face is what everyone uses to judge gender more often than not.  You can have a true feminine presentation with HRT effects and the power of makeup, hair and wardrobe.  Also going through facial hair removal through electrolysis or laser will be very helpful.  Also learn to take care of your skin.

If you haven't started HRT yet, you have no idea what the effects will be.  Your doctor won't be able to tell either.  Puberty affects people different ways.  The only way you can find out is to try.

FFS and body sculpting is completely cosmetic and unfortunately few if any insurance plans cover it.  But it is not a requirement.

If you make the decision to live, to transition, you may find a load has been lifted off your shoulders.  It is a daunting task to say the least, but it can be done.  And on the other side life can be so beautiful.

You may feel like you are in agony now, but you can overcome it.  With proper support you can become whole.

We are here for you, please know that you are not alone.

I've been on HRT more times than I care to count. Just never much longer than 5 months at a time. I'm nearing the 4 month mark again. I think this is my 4th or 5th time to do it. It is different this time and I know it. I also know if you strip down a female naked and a male naked they look different. Even if you ignore the genitals. I posted a pic on here at one time before my third round of HRT. I'm not sure if it is still there. I don't have any pics of me anymore so if that pic is not there, you won't be getting any new ones. I've systematically gone through and deleted them all. I cannot even look into the mirror to brush my teeth any more. Just the mere sight of me makes me sick and depressed.



-Sandy

I don't like the post merge thingy so I'll respond to you later Jessica.