Quote from: finewine on July 09, 2009, 12:24:45 PM
Sure they will, with onion gravy and mashed potato by the sounds of it

Nice tasty "deposit" anyone? hehe

is this your personal theory on the origin of salsbury steak?

Quote from: Mister on July 09, 2009, 12:52:38 PM
is this your personal theory on the origin of salsbury steak?

LOL!  You made me gargle on my demi-sec, dear boy!

Military issue MREs are almost synthetic. Meals Ready to Eat. The salisbury steak is nearly fit for human consumption. Does anyone remember the movie Soylent Green with Charleton Heston? Soylent Green are protein wafers made of recycled people.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 09, 2009, 11:35:08 AMWhen I said the world is flat I was referring to the lack of looking to the future and answers that are not in the majority's belief.

Lisa, you do hold the majority's belief. Every working-class citizen and his/her pet dog thinks that there is something special about "natural" or "organic" foods. They seem to think it's more "pure" somehow, therefore it must be "better" for them. Practically everybody in the USA holds this belief on some level. They are just flat-out wrong. The only difference organic food makes to your health is that it increases your risk of becoming infected with botulism or some other horrible disease. If you are really worried about your health, eat a bunch of hot peppers. They are amazingly good for your health.

QuoteThey are amazingly good for your health.

My health is amazingly good anyway, but I do on occasion eat very spicy food. I do cook every meal with as much things from my neighbors and farmers market I can get. No I do not eat fast foods and only during travel eat at a restaurant. We make our own bread and grind our own flour.

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Post Merge: July 09, 2009, 02:08:45 PM

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QuoteThe only difference organic food makes to your health is that it increases your risk of becoming infected with botulism or some other horrible disease

I am one that thinks things being too clean and antiseptic leads to reduced antibodies, so when you are exposed you have no defense.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 09, 2009, 02:07:06 PM
My health is amazingly good anyway, but I do on occasion eat very spicy food.

Mine, too. I am one of those perverts who enjoy sweating.

QuoteWe make our own bread and grind our own flour.

Investigate wheat alternatives. Wheat is the devil. Oats are acceptable: they contain a different form of gluten.

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Post Merge: July 09, 2009, 01:08:45 PM

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I am one that thinks things being too clean and antiseptic leads to reduced antibodies, so when you are exposed you have no defense.

That is the strangest belief I have ever heard of.

I am one that thinks things being too clean and antiseptic leads to reduced antibodies, so when you are exposed you have no defense.

I'm down with Lisa here.  I know several others that are too.  Often when I get simple cuts I don't treat it, preferring to let it get a bit (but not too much) infected, so that the body can fight it.

QuoteInvestigate wheat alternatives. Wheat is the devil. Oats are acceptable: they contain a different form of gluten.

We grind many things.

Quote from: tekla on July 09, 2009, 02:25:47 PMI'm down with Lisa here.  I know several others that are too.  Often when I get simple cuts I don't treat it, preferring to let it get a bit (but not too much) infected, so that the body can fight it.

You mean you don't cook your food? Tekla, it is not even necessary to raise the temperature of your food to the point at which water boils to reduce the number of viable pathogens in it to just about nil. You are not getting sufficient pathogens in your food to really count for anything if you are actually cooking your food before you eat it. It seems to be immaterial whether you are using acid or heat. For example, you are perfectly safe eating ceviche. I honestly don't think there is anything to this belief.

Most of the food I eat is either from craft services or from catering - I'm not sure how they prepare it, but it covers the waterfront I'm sure. A lot of stuff can be eaten raw, and that's often the best way though.  Not so much with meat, but almost always with fruit and veggies you lose nutrition by cooking.

QuoteWhile Triclosan is generally — but not universally — regarded as safe, numerous studies have questioned its necessity. A 2007 research project by the University of Oregon School of Public Health concluded that plain soap and water are as effective in removing bacteria from the hands, and additional research questions whether the indiscriminate use of Triclosan might contribute to the development of hardier bacteria.

I agree with earlier comments about over-sterilization and natural resistance.  My stomach is pretty cast iron after so much time spent in Asia - yet I see folks get sick almost the moment they walk off the plane because they're used to irradiated, sterilized food.  Even a live yoghurt gives them the squits.

Quote from: finewine on July 09, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
I agree with earlier comments about over-sterilization and natural resistance.  My stomach is pretty cast iron after so much time spent in Asia - yet I see folks get sick almost the moment they walk off the plane because they're used to irradiated, sterilized food.  Even a live yoghurt gives them the squits.

I have really never heard of that, but perhaps this is the reason I can't handle eating a lot of red meat. You see, I switched to a diet of mostly white meat and fish, completely out of personal taste. I got a better taste sensation from the chicken, so I never even looked at anything that had beef in it. Well, I stopped eating chicken for a while, and I was mostly on seafood for a while, mostly shrimp. Well, for some reason, suddenly I'd always get this terrible taste in mouth after eating a lot of chicken, and I couldn't wash it out at all. So...what do you think? Is it the meat itself that causes this, or is it some kind of pathogen that lives in the meat that I've simply lost my resistance to?

Or perhaps the growth hormones that chicken is full of these days.

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 09, 2009, 03:04:34 PM
I have really never heard of that, but perhaps this is the reason I can't handle eating a lot of red meat.

In the previous example, the probable cause was that the natural flora of the gut had adjusted to the food pattern (and a fair amount of antibiotic misuse).  The pattern is so pronounced that I actually recommend eating live yoghurts to folks before they make their trip out.  In the case of meat,  my sister is like you - she stopped eating it mostly due to personal taste and now she finds red meat too heavy and too rich, which unsettles her stomach.

QuoteWell, for some reason, suddenly I'd always get this terrible taste in mouth after eating a lot of chicken, and I couldn't wash it out at all. So...what do you think? Is it the meat itself that causes this, or is it some kind of pathogen that lives in the meat that I've simply lost my resistance to?

I honestly don't know but I suspect it's more likely to be an intolerance to the proteins in the meat - in particular the composition of saliva can change with diet, which is most probably why there's such a profound taste reaction in your case.  The following quote comes from a paper on this very topic¹:

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The specific activity of saliva of man shows wide variations in different individuals. In one group there is a prevalence of zoolytic activity, in another phytolytic, while in certain persons both activities are equal. The data that were obtained are considered to be an adaptive mechanism of the enzymatic activity to the quality of food. The adaptive mechanisms not only common to the same species were revealed but, likewise, those which appear with the change of the diet.

As an aside, there is a rather nasty practice where crooks bleach chicken that's been condemned to pet food (or worse) to mask the aroma and give it a pale, fresh look.

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1. "Amylolytic adaptational changes in mammalian saliva" A. M. Ugolev
    Laboratory of General Physiology of the Institute of Normal and Pathological Physiology,
    Academy of Medical Sciences, USSR.

Okay, this makes sense. I also have a "profound" reaction to the tannins that are present in certain teas. That is, they make me violently throw up, and this sort of experience is very unusual and puzzling for a sort of freakazoid, pescephile otter-girl who can get away with inhaling a whole plateful of kippers, bones and fins included, without even having the decency to pause for breath. Red wines cause a similar but slightly less dramatic reaction. My boyfriend called me a "cheap date" because of this until he saw me take down a half-bottle of tequila one time, and now I'm forbidden to come within three meters of the liquor cabinet without adult supervision. Now, is this likely to be a permanent, built-in intolerance, or do you think it possible to build up a tolerance for tea tannins by consuming them in smaller quantities for a while? Why? Why not?

However, I am very skeptical about the notion of eating meat that may contain food-borne pathogens. E. Coli or certain species of Salmonella can kill you, and I do not see how it could be beneficial to put yourself at risk of these kinds of pathogens. It's not that I'm particularly fastidious regarding my fare. My dietary choices are generally pretty catholic, and I tend to be more adventurous than not. I just...don't really understand the idea of intentionally putting oneself in harm's way. There must be something about this that I am not understanding.

It's easy to talk about how genetically modified and synthesized food is bad, when you have plenty of food on your own plate.

Quote from: Miniar on July 09, 2009, 06:43:50 PM
It's easy to talk about how genetically modified and synthesized food is bad, when you have plenty of food on your own plate.

Well the more food that is on people's plates the more babies they have ended in people without food on their plate.