Unless you have the bone structure, voice, facial features, etc of your identified gender you will be moving from one closet to another as you transition.  And you'll also need the cooperation of everyone who knows you from your birth gender days.

Of course the best situation is to be totally out and not be overburdened with discrimination and prejudiced people.  But that seems rare too.

So if you decide to go stealth you will be closet hopping.  That's my conclusion from personal experience and personal observation.

Julie

It depends on your life style and past. I have lived so many places and now where no one else lives from my earlier life. I'm  out to old friends but they are a thousand miles away. I do pass so does that make me stealth? I would not hold back if a good friend asked. No not in a closet just an individual that can live in the flow.

i don't agree.  if somebody transitioned when they were half a century old, there's no way in hell that they'll be stealth because many people will know their past & it'll be impossible to start a brand new life.

what on this one I must say something
I started my transition 3 years ago and move 11/2 hear ago and after the move I only tell the pep that ask afue frind know and falmly but that is all hear my name is kimberly now and pep meet me as a women no one no any more and I hope to kepe it that way

don't hide it just live my life

  Kimberly

Quote from: Natasha on August 10, 2009, 05:51:18 PM
i don't agree.  if somebody transitioned when they were half a century old, there's no way in hell that they'll be stealth because many people will know their past & it'll be impossible to start a brand new life.

Impossible?  No.  Tough?  Yes.  But some of us old farts don't have a choice.  Family and friends just up and go from our lives and starting a new one is the only option.

I'm still nowhere near to completing transition still, but the fact is that the majority of people who I have met up to this point in my life I might possibly talk to but maybe never see in the future sort of.  I hardly hang out with people from high school and my friends tend to always be ever changing with changing of schools and areas where I live. 

This year is college graduation, and after that is hopefully grad school, but that also means a new beginning where I'm going to have to make new friends yet again.  Nothing seems to be static for me right now, but that's also because I don't have a career and still have more interest in learning than leaning toward a career and settling down somewhere.

Then of course if I ever manage to get off my lazy but and start doing something about my transition then comes in all the other issues that you just provided. 

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 10, 2009, 04:10:04 PM
Of course the best situation is to be totally out and not be overburdened with discrimination and prejudiced people.  But that seems rare too.

I'm still early in transition, so I don't know how it'll go later.  I don't wear a red TS on my forehead, but I am out to everyone who knew me before, who knows someone who knew me before, who asks me, etc.  I am extremely lucky because so far I have suffered no noticeable discrimination or prejudice.  (I get a funny look now and then, but I used to get those when I presented male, too. )

Being older, I have a lot of connections to my past - a daughter, an ex-wife, siblings and other relatives, all of whom I'm still friendly with, I'm active in my church and still friendly with a couple of childhood friends and people in a church I went to years ago, and on and on.  Those connections are very important to me.  I don't see stealth as an option and, because of my rare situation, I don't see any reason for me to try for stealth.  (Your results may differ.)

I truly wish for all of you the undrstanding and acceptance that I have received.

- Kate

Personally I don't sive a ghit.   I am a woman regardless.  My past maybe change to protect the innocent.  I am not out and proud, but I am not hiding.   My past is my business and my partner's, no one else's .


And I am one of the old bats.Here.

Janet, if you're one of the old bats then I must be one of the ancient bats.

Now, where did I put that walker?

- Kate

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 10, 2009, 04:10:04 PM
Unless you have the bone structure, voice, facial features, etc of your identified gender you will be moving from one closet to another as you transition.  And you'll also need the cooperation of everyone who knows you from your birth gender days.

Of course the best situation is to be totally out and not be overburdened with discrimination and prejudiced people.  But that seems rare too.

So if you decide to go stealth you will be closet hopping.  That's my conclusion from personal experience and personal observation.

Julie

Hi Julie,

Interesting post, and I'd agree with it.  There is a cost to stealth, and I truly wonder if it would be worth the benefit, at least for those of us 'later in life transitioners'.  By the good graces of fate and location, I have found myself in your optimal category of "the best situation is to be totally out and not be overburdened with discrimination and prejudiced people." , and I totally agree.  I'm totally out to those that know me, work with me, are friends with me.   I'm not treated any differently then I was before transition, except as a woman.  It was really surprising.  People that have recently met me, I don't exactly broadcast that I'm a trans woman, but if they ask, I'm not afraid to tell.  However, I do have many moments of stealth everyday.   When I go shopping, or out and about, I am stealth to anonymous people that I don't know, and that is the way I wish to be.  I don't want to have to carry a story with me everywhere I go, being trans woman ambassador to every single person I meet, so stealth serves me well in those settings.  However, I also wear my trans 'side' with honor.  I am not ashamed of the journey that I took to get here, the barriers (mostly within myself) that I had to overcome to achieve this happy state of self-realization.   When I date, I come out with this if not before meeting, within the first date.  Sure it turns some off, but those are people I would want to turn off anyway. 

I've heard this from a friend, and it struck me as true, and stirred much thought in me.  It parallels your 'closet hopping' idea.   The idea that no matter how far or deep you get into stealth, no matter how good you look, how much you "pass", how very few people know about your past life... you will always be trans.  That stigma will always be with you.. in you, and your mind.   You are socialized as your opposed gender from birth to the moment you present to the world as your acknowledged gender.   I know for me, that this will always be true, that I am trans, and aware of this, and I must embrace it, (or go insane, lol)!  And to me, there's just a comfort level of knowing that I can be totally honest to people, and not have this chip, or skeleton hanging behind me.   

Oh, well, thought provoking thread, thank you!  As I get past SRS in the early part of next year, I wonder how or if my thoughts will change on the idea of stealth.   I think it's easier to acknowledge trans status and being out, when looking in the mirror, and not seeing 100% congruence with gender identity.  I am almost complete in manifesting that feminine form that I see myself as, and I wonder when that merges, with my actual physicality, if I won't have a stronger urge to be stealth.  Hmmm...  *smiles*.

*Huggs*,
Melan

While it may be true that we are Trans the rest of our lives, because of our past, it does not mean that we have to live as thought we are trans.

Being one of the late transitioners, I am and always will be a woman.  Yes I may get sir'ed now and then, but for the world I am that same said woman.  I personally think stealth is overrated anyway.  Some one somewhere know about your trans past.  It is just a matter of how well you handle that information when it is brought up.

Early transitioners have a better chance of the past not catching up with them.  But it can and being ready for it makes all of the difference in the world.  Post op makes things better, because you may know that you were once one of them, but you see yourself in a whole new different light.
And that is a really big boost.


Janet

Quote from: Nichole on August 11, 2009, 09:24:22 AMSomewhere, some of us, have, perhaps, found a pathway between.

I think that is where I fall these days.

When I "transitioned" in 1974, integration and stealth were the expected path (except for an unfortunate few who were outed by the media). I didn't even tell my first husband, though I did tell the second. Only he and my doctor knew I wasn't "standard issue".

Some 10 years later, being completely integrated into the community and accepted without question, a rumor of my past went through the community, a rumor I totally ignored. I lost a few casual friends but most people simply dismissed the rumor as implausible and it died out.

Now, some 30+ years down the road and knowing more about my childhood and pubescent medical oddities, more people know that my parents tried to raise me as a boy but it never "stuck". I am not uncomfortable with this position. I mean, really, there is so much confusion I don't even know what I was, only that I wasn't a boy LOL!

I do know of those who stay in their surroundings because of baggage. Most (though not all) are rather miserable because of the struggles that brings. I don't see how it is possible to be even remotely stealth without a change of location. Of course if you really don't care that is different. I just don't think I will ever feel that way.

Kristi

I think I understand what you are saying, Nichole, but I also think a number of us have stated that we are finding a middle ground – not leading the parade but not fully stealth.  We are just living our lives as best we can.

I am pre-op and have only lived fulltime for less than four months, so my experience is very limited.  But I've traveled to a number of different places during that time.  I am who I am.  If someone recognizes me as being trans, it doesn't seem to make any difference to them or to me.  At two months as Katherine I was "clocked" at least twice a day when staying in a large US city but had no problems.  At three months as Katherine, spending a week in a different large American city I couldn't tell if I was ever recognized as trans.  It wasn't that I was "passing" so wonderfully – it was because no one cared.

The times are changing.  I think with that change, the external and internalized stigma of being trans will disappear.  (It already is disappearing.)  Because of my age, I will be very surprised to live another 25 years.  But I will also be surprised if during that time the condition we call transsexual doesn't become something like having crooked teeth – that in the developed world everyone would just expect you to have it corrected and no big deal.

I think the middle ground – the non-event of being trans – is fast approaching.  Halleluiah!  

- Kate

Transitioning drastically cut back the family who were not accepting. Transitioning on the job then transfering to a different state has really eased who people know me as to begin with. Applying for jobs is a pain in the neck because some of the degree's and professions would be such a plus but even with trans-friendly companies I find it personally difficult to put that "Also Known As" or "Legal Name Changes" information.

Hugs~

Quote from: Janet Lynn on August 11, 2009, 12:07:42 PM
While it may be true that we are Trans the rest of our lives, because of our past, it does not mean that we have to live as thought we are trans.

yup yup. you got it janet lynn.  i'm a woman above everything else & my gender identification is female not 'trans'. but this community is so diverse that there might be some people who id as 'trans'.  good for them!

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 10, 2009, 04:10:04 PM
Unless you have the bone structure, voice, facial features, etc of your identified gender you will be moving from one closet to another as you transition.  And you'll also need the cooperation of everyone who knows you from your birth gender days.

Of course the best situation is to be totally out and not be overburdened with discrimination and prejudiced people.  But that seems rare too.

So if you decide to go stealth you will be closet hopping.  That's my conclusion from personal experience and personal observation.

Julie

That's been my experience as well. Despite my screen name here, I finally began to feel that I had traded one burdensome secret for another and was STILL not able to just be myself. Now I'm out. That doesn't mean I wear a sign or am willing to discuss my business with just anybody. But if someone knows, then they know. It's none of my business what other people think of me anyway, unless they're trying to kill me.

I still can't really fully "just be myself" and I will never be able to do that, because no matter if I disclose or don't, being trans affects my closest relationships. I hate that, but that's reality, and I live as authentically as nature and modern medicine will allow.

Further into my transition at work (retail family clothing), I was stuck running a register all day. So I decided to hash mark on a post it pad to determine negative feed back. Out of 117 customers paying for purchases, it was less than 3%. I did get called a thing by some redneck bitch one day while I did nothing but smile and help her. I figured it was probably one of the customers that saw me before transition as my height hadn't really changed. I figure that passability is when a woman has her daughter "Give the nice lady the money."

Retail has exposed me to all shapes and sizes for women and that helped my ego that I fall within the "average" range for everything-voice, shape, size, etc.
I get put off about why anyone would call a woman anything but a woman. I have seen some really furry arms, really furry faces, really deep voices and some really thick muscular body shapes. Nobody walks up and gives them a "Sir" Card for Life?

Hugs~

I also work retail as a cashier.  The only real negative comments or reactions I get is that people ignore me and just refuse to acknowledge me in any way.  A good, bad comment I have gotten was to be called a "Bitch". 

There has been customer complaints against me, so I am told,  But I never have been told what those were, so they don't count.

And many customers call me by name as any friend would.  And a couple worry if I am not at work.  They always ask me why, because they missed me.  And they remember that reason, and ask after it if it was a problem.  I know I will be quized by them went I return, because of my back.

Janet