The only problem that I see with the "disappearing act" is that you risk a lot more than you do, if you just face the consciequences of transitioning in place.

1. Faking your own death is illegal in many places.  Thus jail/prison time.
2. Fraud.  Faking Identity.  Again jail/prison time.
3. And how would you provide a body?  Or would you just disappear say in a river?  Guess what?  Jail/prison time for causing a false police report to be filed, or the abuse of a corpse.

You could never really disappear, because of your DNA, fingerprints, dental records.

Personally, you can only grow as the person you are by facing the struggles of staying put.  Move if you are in danger, but not because you don't face those pains.

Janet

Quote from: Fae on August 25, 2009, 12:14:09 AM
That saddens me, and begs the question: Why?  I mean, how could someone consciously say they would rather see a loved one disappear entirely, and that would somehow be 'better?'

I'll give you an example.  My younger brother, total opposite of me.  Redneck, ultra-conservative, loves his guns, trucks, and beer.  I don't agree with him on a lot of things, and we don't always understand each other, but he's my brother.  We may not always get along, but I would hate to see him just vanish.

My younger brother is a recent return from Iraq. He is one of the folks that wont talk to me. It hurts

Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 25, 2009, 12:35:05 AM
My younger brother is a recent return from Iraq. He is one of the folks that wont talk to me. It hurts

I'm sorry Virginia...I know the feeling.

My brother and I used to get along great when we were little, but somehow we just drifted apart in totally opposite directions.  I try not to let it bother me now.

Transitioning is not a one-size-fits-all process.  There may be some that need to start over somewhere else.  There may be some whose family/social situation is such that they need to just disappear (not faking a death, just going away with no further contact, ever).

For those for whom that is not necessary, there is still some appeal because then we wouldn't have to deal with the people in our lives - not just the family and friends, but the grocer and the coffee shop gal.

For me, I could never do it that way.  I need the support and connection to my friends, family (not so much), acquaintances, and people in town (grocer and coffee shop gal, etc.).  Learning to deal with all of them through my transition helps me learn how to deal with the world as Kate.

This is a long, difficult process that each of us must tailor to our own needs.

And back to the original post: I think that what holds us back is more fear than guilt - fear of what might happen, fear of treading new ground, fear of people's reactions, fear of not being able to fit in once we actually do all this hard work.

Facing my fears at last,
Kate

Though this is cast in some sort of GID/Transition deal, it seems to me to be much more common that that, its a human deal. Lots of people just up and walk out - oh I'm going to get a pack of smokes honey - and never come back.

And there are socially appropriate ways of doing this too.  College, particularly if you go far from home/ out of state is pretty much the same deal. As is a lot of military service.

Humans love reinventing themselves.

My wife went through years of deterioration before dying.  She became ever-more needy while at the same time gradually losing her mind.  Her personality became ever more difficult.  She was angry to be dying and took out her anger on the only person available – me.  (Transitioning is far easier than that was.)

Before she got to the point where I couldn't leave her for even a few minutes, every few weeks I would ride my motorcycle out to the ghost town about half an hour from here and return, ostensibly to exercise the bike but really to blow some fresh air into my head.

I remember one trip out when I started wondering what would happen if I just kept going.  It was extremely tempting.  I wasn't sure if I could manage it and probably wouldn't have disappeared even if I could have managed it, but I remember working through the possibility.  And yes, I turned around and came back.

There are lots of reasons to disappear, not just GID.  And there are plenty of ways to do it halfway, like move cross-country and only maintain contact through occasional letters.  I know people who haven't seen their family in many years and are quite happy with that situation.

- Kate

---

Post Merge: August 26, 2009, 12:49:01 AM

---

My point (if I had one ) is that disappearing – completely or partially – can be a solution to an untenable situation.  However, I think too often people see it as an easy way out and don't think through the problems it will create for them.  Starting over in a new place with no supports carries its own risks and shouldn't be done lightly.

While disappearing has an appeal, you will still be wherever you go – you will not have left your internal problems behind.  If your desire to disappear is through guilt or shame or embarrassment, disappearing will be a mistake.  If your desire to disappear and start over is because you are afraid to see a therapist or come out to your family, disappearing will be a mistake.  (If you think your family will actually destroy you if you come out to them, that's different, of course.  I mean if you think your family will be unhappy, won't talk to you, will make you feel bad, will throw you out of the house, will disown you, etc.)  If disappearing is because transitioning is too hard, disappearing will be a mistake because you will still have to transition wherever you are.

Transitioning isn't just a step through the looking glass – it is hard work that goes easier with the help of others.  But most of the work goes on within you.

- Kate

When I was 19 one of my best friends died in a car accident.  Eight people in two vehicles and only one survived.  They said my best friend broke his neck and died instantly.  That death shook me to the core lives with me to this day.

When I was 43 another lifelong friend was killed in a snowmobile accident.  He came to a road crossing, couldn't stop in time and was hit by a truck.  His brother was there and had to pick him up off the pavement and listen to his last dying breaths.  That death also lives with me to this day.

In between I lost a friend in another motorcycle accident when a car clipped his tail and sent him over a bridge into a railroad yard.  Another friend was killed when his car catapulted into a highway overpass sign.  They say he was killed instantly.  Another best friend's brother was killed coming home from college.

My son watched his best friend die shortly after playing badminton.  He had a bad heart.  My son was 10.  My daughter lost her boyfriend.  His parents him found him dead as they came to his room to wake him in the morning.  Another bad heart.  My daughter was 13.  My son lost his best friend in 6th grade when his drunken step-dad rolled their convertible while on vacation.  My kids friend's sister, who babysat for them many times, was killed when a semi jackknifed on her when she was coming home from visiting her grandmother.  My kids were  12 & 15.  Two schoolmates died along with their dad when a distraught girl tried to commit suicide and ended up t-boning them instead of hitting the utility pole they stopped in front of.

I went to every one of these wakes and every one of these funerals and every time all I heard was how much the living grieved their losses.  There was nothing but tears.  And I hear it to this day.

If you think death is the better option you have no idea how much those around you love you.  And you never will if you don't give them a chance.

Julie

Wow!!! I'm not the only one to have witnessed the passing of friends in person? That stuff never leaves you.

I can't talk about it right now

I made it to past fifty years old, a PhD, been around the world, and then... then I saw three people get murder/death/kill before my eyes.  Somethings you never forget.

Tsunami day (Dec 26th, 2004) is probably one of the most memorable for me.

Speaking as a person who was disowned by family, twenty five years ago, I can say that, yes, family can and does shun it's members and that they can do it with no regrets.  My sin was that I divorced and remarried then lost my job.  I was homeless with a baby and in desperate need of help but they called the police to have me and my new family removed while threatening to take my baby away.  We ran into the streets until we reached the next town and went to the Red Cross. They put us up in a flop house with a mentally ill man who exposed himself to our baby.  In shame, they put us on an airplane with a one way ticket across the country with no food money.  We managed to get an apartment because of the kindness of a stranger. My wife got temp jobs but because I was so highly trained, I could not get back in my career and no company wanted to hire an ex top executive as a stock boy.  Then two years later, as I was then a stay at home dad, that became the reason not to hire me as an executive. I was just too weird.   I had to start my own business with my own inventions working in a dirt floor garage just so I could earn a living again.  In ten years my new company was pulling in 40K a month.  The IRAQ war caused a boycott of my products internationally and my business went under. I started over in a new business again from scratch.

I never have spoken to my mother since.  Now imagine what would have happened if she knew I was trans...

So I did essentially disappear and since then because I am trans, my new family has withdrawn from me.  They are almost doing to me what our parents did to us.  I am allowed to stay but I am marginalized and  avoided. 

The result of all this and talking to others who have similar situations, is a belief that family caring in the USA is very tenuous. We as a culture are bred to think of death and violence as solutions to problems, hence the USA's reliance on war.  So it translates to interpersonal relationships.  When one of us gets irritating or inconvenient or heaven forbid, a drain on cash, love magically gets replaced by a bevy of excuses of why that person deserves to be put out in the cold.  Most people don't really love each other.  My heart has been shattered again and again by those I love.  I do wish I could disappear now.  Why? Because going through this again is beyond cruel.

Maggie

Thank, Julie, for your reminders.  I did not mean to come across like death is no big deal.  In my work, I deal with it quite often.  So in a sense, I have almost become immune to how it feels. 

Kristi

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 24, 2009, 11:27:15 AM
A "I could never do "that" to my family" attitude?

Julie[/color][/font]

there is a part of this. 

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 24, 2009, 11:27:15 AM

Is this shame?  Guilt?  An inability to accept responsibility for transitioning?
Julie

it is not guilt but fear of how people treat you.  when i lived in bangkok i did go to
straight clubs and restaurants in girl mode and i did not even give it a thought or feel scared or wonder what would the people reaction be.

if blond people were persecuted because of the color of their hair you can trust that many will try to hide it by changing its color or wear a hat ect.

I had the ability to disappear. *Poof* Gone forever. My family was somewhat aware of this fact and I think it was always in the back of their minds that I could just pick up one day and never be seen or heard from again. My family is also pretty close for the most part so I could never see myself doing that while we were working things out. Glad that I did not go that route because they continue to be a huge part of my life.

However, I will not judge anyone who decides to go this route for not everyone has had a pretty decent childhood and/or family.

Quote from: Fae on August 24, 2009, 11:54:51 PM
  For another, if one were to actually do this, it would do far more damage to your loved ones than coming out to them would ever do.  No one wants to see a loved one die/vanish.  No one.

two scenario
1) you die (by this scenario i don't suggest to fake death but just an example), family reaction:  oh he was such a good guy.
2) you are trans, family reaction: oh what a dirty freak and a pervert.

would i be wrong to say that there are families where when a son go to prison for rape or killing or rubbery thay'll still love him and support him. But if you are transgender you are disowned?

Quote from: yabby on August 26, 2009, 11:31:37 AM
would i be wrong to say that there are families where when a son go to prison for rape or killing or rubbery thay'll still love him and support him. But if you are transgender you are disowned?

No, you wouldn't be wrong. Nor would you be wrong if you inserted gay, lesbian, Republican, Catholic or any number of other words into your sentence in place of transgender. Family dynamics and how we tend to view the decisions of other's hearts can be hugely problematic for all kinds of people.

There are many cases where leaving is the best answer.  There are many others where the person wants to leave because they cannot deal with the situation, but much of the situation is within them. 

We each carry around a bunch of issues within us.  Escaping to another location - the geographical solution - doesn't work because we carry those issues with us to the next place.

There are truly hateful families.  Leaving them or any hateful group is probably always a good idea.  But if the problems are that you haven't accepted yourself, or you haven't learned to deal with the world around you, or any number of other things, going somewhere else isn't going to help.

I tried the geographical solution a few times and learned my location wasn't the problem - it just delayed the work I needed to do on myself.  Moving is easier than working through things, but it may not help.

- Kate

i totally agree with K8.

i would also make a difference between family & friends and not put both in the same basket.

I will agree the thought has been serious for me to just cut ties with the people I know here and move eventually...but I've never really been that close to people (socially awkward would be a good description).

Really, my family would be the reason why I couldn't live comfortably as stealth...aside from my grandmother being malicious and my mother being in denial, I have an aunt with a mental disability who wouldn't understand if I told her--and even if I did request that she not call me by my birth name or use female pronouns with me, she would forget. I'd never be able to bring anyone around most of my family again...and I know that if I was to go forward and live as a man I wouldn't want to be a "transman"...I want to be a man.

I think that's really the only thing holding me back right now, my only concern...I care about what people think of me, even if I don't particularly like them or they're being unfair. So really, its choosing between my happiness and seeing my family.

well I'm moving to another country where practically no one at all knows me or where I come from (beyond my obvious American accent), but that's more about being with the person I love than trying to escape my life. It would have been easy enough I guess to just disappear, but my family and friends in the States know exactly where I am, how to contact me, and know I'm here as myself. I could never do that to the people I love, even if they had completely rejected me. Their rejection would still not justify such an action on my part.