i got it worse i'm stuck in Australia, judas priest did their first ever show (halford show at least) here last year... bloody antipodies

The costs of touring a band, even in country, are astronomical anymore. Shipping all that stuff halfway around the world, having to do the customs thing, and the work permits is a huge hassle and also very expensive. And the distance deal down under is even worse than it is in the Western US. So you pay to ship all that to Australia, you pay to get the work permits and your crew in, and what do you have?  Five major cities in a thousand miles or so?  Back when record companies wrote the checks life was different, but now when it comes out of their own pocket, that's a lot of expense for not much return.

in the case of iron maiden bruce flew all their ->-bleeped-<- down himself, in his own plane... i think they're having fun emptying tehir own pockets

for judas priest they didn't get much corwd, only half the stadium thingy was even opened, the other half of the doors said "you have been upgraded to gold seating/standing go to doors... (whatever door numbers led to open section)" and even the half they opened wasn't full... i got upgraded to front row of the mosh which was brilliant, but i don't think they're comming back any time soon

Actually you'd be surprised how many little tiny bands come down here though, i think they come down for the beaches and play gigs rather than doing bar work. I remember a gig from a german death grind band ages ago, the singer kept asking for water in a really heavy accent... i found that funny... i was probably drunk. actually a lot of relatively small-time ausie bands do over-seas tours, ithink they do them as kind of a working holiday too.

The smaller the band, the less the cost.  And, if your not that huge, say your playing 1K clubs or less, you can get buy on rented equipment and little to no crew, so you only have to bring your instruments, which really lowers the cost. If you're doing a stadium show, all that staging has to be either dragged or built there - either way, its a huge expense. And you need people, people who don't come cheap (at all, bargain basement roadies is going to make $1,500 a week, plus per diem, plus hotels, buses, and airfare - the big techs are going to be making $700 a day, plus all the rest, one tech per instrument - that runs up a huge bill very fast.)

yeah i gather it's cheaper to bring 2 gutars and borrow your support acts amps just an intreguing anomaly, or in the case of one Austrian "dj" just his lap top... you see i don't really get the point of live if you do that kinda music?

i think when priest came without halford they played a pretty small venue, missed it though, i think i was like 1 year too young to get into bars at the time

borrow your support acts amps

Good luck on that one, unless they were contracted to do that, most band would have a huge problem with it.  If I was that bands manager (tour or stage) I would not permit it without a substantial amount of money, in cash, up front - and I'd charge going rates, which is like $250 a day for a drum kit.

Back when I was young(er) and stupid I did this deal called Van's Warped Tour with two stages and a pile of bands that all sounded exactly alike.  One stage would be fired up while the other was changing, so there was continual music for like 7 hours or some silly thing. I spend all day working a stage and switching the bands, we had them lined up in back of the stage like so many airplanes waiting to take off.  And while the music was all the same - I mean like collectively could anyone learn a forth chord? - what was really funny was as I was standing there looking out at the equipment staging area, other than the drum sets, it was all the same.  We'd spend all day switching out one Ampeg bass unit for another Ampeg bass unit, one Orange stack for another Orange stack, one Marshall for another Marshall.

he he he... my friend played some dodgy battle of the bands once where there was the opposite problem, they made them all use a borrowed drum kit, which didn't even have most of the stuff that most of the bands needed. It was mainly metal bands and the kit had just the one bass drum, one band pulled out and just said they couldn't play most of their stuff witth it.

Man, battle of the bands gigs seem doge round here, they make the bands pay to enter... seems like the money's going the wrong way there, playing gigs free for the fun of it is one thing, but paying to play is pushing it, especially when they also charge entry for the spectators. I guess it's cos those events are "all ages" so no bar takings.

If 'dodgy' is Aussie slang for what we would call 'bogus' then I think you are spot on.

But there is a lot of 'pay to play' particularly at the lower levels.  Lots of places have things like ticket guarantees, which means your band buys the first 100 tickets, at cost, and either sells them or gives them away, and gets the money for whatever comes in over that. Now, if you know you have 200 fans, no problem, if not, it adds up real fast.

yeah, you speak good Aussie, mate

hrmmm... i think for these gigs they are also obliged to sell tickets, on top of having to pay to play and not getting to let any friends in free... man, even if i had any tallent i couldn't be arsed being in a band.

If you work harder - and have more tallent and originality - you can work your way up to the paying gigs quicker, i have a mate who can get a band together and gigging in a couple of months... but he's the exception, my other friend is not unskilled and has been with his band for about 4 years and still gets $50 between him and his three bandmates for his best gigs, and pays to play his worst

and have more tallent and originality

Oh, I suppose, though a lot of times when I'm out with civilians and they find out what I do the first thing out of their mouth is "I know this really talented...." and I try to cut them off as soon as possible and tell them that in many ways, talent is the least of it.

My guess, is that with your friends, the ones who got those gigs were not better at playing, or had a better band, but had someone who in American slang could Hustle and Flow, who was on the phone, who was going out and meeting people, and working harder to sell the band than the other one. It tends to matter more, not who is playing guitar, or singing, or on drums, but who is playing 'phone and briefcase' particularly when you are starting out. Its the music business, and I always thought that was wrong, its the business of music, the business has to come first.

yeah this guy is more orignal and can sing... but yeah, the big difference is that he has more get up and go, i was at a gig with him once and he said "i want a band that's kinda country and kinda metal.." he went round enthusiastically describing his new idea and introducing himself to interesting-looking people that night "Hey mate, what do you play? what music do you like... wanna join my band?". At one point he came out of the mens room at one point:
him "I FOUND ONE!"
me "a what?"
him "a new band!"
and he had, he'd found a band, he rehersed with them the nest week, wrote them some new songs, and was gigging with them within the next couple of months, at better gigs than my other friend can get after 4 years of paying to play...

but man, he had enthusiasm he rounded up a friend who was into graphic design to do poasters for their first gig and put them up all round town, and i think he even bought the whole bar a drink at their first gig... small crowd... but the next crowd was bigger...

i keep telling my gigless friend to just ditch his band and start one with Mr Enthusiasm.