So. After many years of thinking, talking and dreaming, I have arrived at what I felt was a very good looking image for myself. I know, shame shame on me, drawn on brows and makeup. my real brows have bald spots from shaving them for 7 years and i  only wear makeup when i have a photoshoot.

This was just a week ago or so,


a few months ago



and a more casual look-



I dont understand how even though, i know, i am rather feminine, i have never once, in all these years, passed as male, even in a full suit with no makeup.

is it my face? my choices of shapes or colors?

i really need some advice because im at my wits end.... I wont give up everything i am but i obviously am doing something wrong....

can anyone help?


thank you all.

You seem very baby faced and that can have a lot to do with it, since in general people associate softness with femininity and chiseled features with the opposite. Also with drawn on eyebrows, that is something I automatically associate with women.
But either way those are some awesome photos none the less.

Quote from: Kamren on September 06, 2009, 06:12:12 PM
You seem very baby faced and that can have a lot to do with it, since in general people associate softness with femininity and chiseled features with the opposite. Also with drawn on eyebrows, that is something I automatically associate with women.
But either way those are some awesome photos none the less.

Haha yeah, im German/Japanese, i have quite a pudgy face. (and to think! Im nearly 20!)
I hate that, I have alot of guy friends with drawn on brows but I honestly think It'll be years before people see it as something that guys do as well as queens and women.

thank you though.

No problem. Girl or guy you have an awesome sense of style. Looks good on ya. Sorry for going on but I'm a sucker for aesthetics no matter what form.

Quote from: Kamren on September 06, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
No problem. Girl or guy you have an awesome sense of style. Looks good on ya. Sorry for going on but I'm a sucker for aesthetics no matter what form.

I feel ya! I think thats my biggest problem. I'm addicted to fashion >_>;

Ive seen you on deviantart. You don't really pass very well because of your feminine face and thin eyebrows but you still look cool.

Quote from: Kyle :3 on September 06, 2009, 07:02:52 PM
Ive seen you on deviantart. You don't really pass very well because of your feminine face and thin eyebrows but you still look cool.

i really dont think my face is feminine, but thanks.

Quote from: KingKai on September 06, 2009, 07:09:28 PM
i really dont think my face is feminine, but thanks.

Your face IS feminine, and that's part of why you don't pass. You have a feminine facial bone structure (weak chin, jaw, forehead protrusion and cheek bones) compounded by female facial fat deposits. However, your non-passing is also triggered by a female voice (which I will insist to my dying day is the number one pass-or-non-pass factor for an FTM), short stature, and your make-up/fashionable style (unfortunately, the majority of bioguys are not quite as concerned with fashion and styles as the majority of biogirls are). 

Passing pre-T is very diffucult for many FTMs. Passing pre-T while in make-up and in colorful alternative clothes, doubly so.

you look like a dude to me, but i'm a big j-rock fan >>;

the only real suggestion i have is try working out to build a little muscle in your upper body to decrease the visual size of your hips. and pay attention to how you walk and carry yourself in general compared to others. other than that idunno ^^;

Dude your first pic is just all sorts of awesome. lol I love the angle and mood and I def. think you look like a guy going for the androgynous look in that one.

In picture 2 I would have assumed you were male.  (I love that outfit, btw.)  But I'll agree with Pettjazz, the narrow jawline, short chin and soft features, especially combined with a flamboyant, androgynous style, are what makes it hard for you to pass.  I think your style is very cool.  But it's the sort of thing that gets read as female unless you have very masculine features. 

Are you hoping to be read as definitively male?  If so, are you thinking of going on testosterone at some point?

When people in general see dyed hair, a funky haircut, makeup and form fitting clothes, they think female.

Sure, there's quite a few cismales sporting that look these days - but perceptions don't change that fast.

I myself had to hack off my ponytail for passing reasons, and heaps of guys have plain unstyled long hair. Admittedly, I'm still sporting my vert lab though... it's black and spikey 

I'd say you've got a mix of male and female features in your face (which we all do).

That being said...

Fringes make a face appear "softer" and more feminine. So does razoring or adding texture to the hair, and so does having the hair frame the face in any way.

Keep an eye on how you carry yourself. Your stance in photo 3 is female. Watch those elbows (don't pull them in, that's a chick thing! They do it to look dainty and push the chest out).

Anything in the ear lobes will parse as earrings at a distance or a glance. Especially if it's big. Obviously tunnels are not something you want to get rid of for a temporary non-passing problem... I'm just listing it because it is a factor.

The clothes in photo 3 fit correctly. Not a problem if your body is the shape you want it to be... bit of an issue if it isn't. Basically, I'm saying I can see a waist, and female shaped legs.

If you can, try to bulk up the upper body a bit. Differently cut clothes would mask what you've got, but bulking the upper body would give you a bit more flexability in what you could pass in.

Wearing anything bulky on your chest makes people mentally insert boobs if you look in the least bit female. If you're binding, and you've got a flat chest - show it off! Boobs / No boobs is one of the really big cues.

Google for Hudson's FTM Guide if you haven't already. Lots of "passing tips" - though it is aimed at those with a blander dress sense (such as myself  ).

Passing isn't going to happen consistantly unless you're on T. There's a lot of cues that you can't reasonably do anything about.

That said, I wouldn't go changing anything that's going to be a pain to change back post-T (mainly talking piercings here... hair grows back, can be restyled and colored later on).

Hey,

The first two pictures I wouldn't even think you are female the last one I would.. Its easier to be a tad fem when you dress sorta emo-ish... I am loving your look..

Like Teknoir said check out Hudsons guide!

Jay

It is easier to pull off alternative feminine than mainstream feminine and still pass.  I'd say the main problem is that you look like a young high-schooler.  If people know you're almost twenty, they're going to assume girl rather than prepubescent boy.  So you can either go back to high school and lie about your age or start hormones (easier said than done).

And the most important thing I had to say: Awesome clothes and hair and everything.  I envy your style.

Your facial features and physical profile are unambiguously feminine.  Your clothing is androgynous, and you certainly look as if you have invested a great deal of effort in your appearance, but you do not appear, to my eyes, to be male.

Lack of makeup (or the appearance of it's absence) and loose clothing might help you disguise the above characteristics.  Additionally, less obvious attention to fashion may also help, but it might be out of character.

- N

You look cool, but you're too feminine. Start hormones or something because it's hard to find men with faces that puffy/feminine.

Just being honest here, you'll have trouble. All of your pictures struck me as female.

SilverFang

Quote from: SilverFang on September 08, 2009, 01:36:05 AM
You look cool, but you're too feminine. Start hormones or something because it's hard to find men with faces that puffy/feminine.

I don't think it's difficult to find men with (for lack of more accurate terminology) "fat faces". Unfortunately, most of the men with fat faces tend to be obese (or very near to it). What's hard to find are healthy-weighted men with fat faces. They're extremely rare because most healthy-weight XY-men (except for those with severe hypogonadism) produce enough T to keep fat from being deposited in female fat storage areas of the body (face, hips, and thighs). Most XY-men only store fat on their faces when they've got so much of it that it spills out of the "male" fat storage areas (mostly the abdomen) into the "female" fat areas.

Since the OP is clearly not anywhere near obese, the facial fat is a painfully female indicator, just as it is with any healthy-weight pre-T FTM.

Kai you just look like a cute girl, one who'd get MY attention.

I think yeah it's the baby face, the lips, the eyes, the general look is female.

Pretty cool pics! 

You pass on second picture.
But the first and third picture - definitelly female.

Your face is feminine, the way you're standing on the 3rd picture, eyebrows...

Sorry, just being honest! 

i think you pass in the first 2 pics, and i wouldnt really know on the third just from looking.  i hang with a lot of japanophiles though and the whole visual kei thing screws up my perception of asian gender and sex.