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has anyone been found out in the women's room

Started by Princess, July 10, 2009, 04:04:31 PM

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heatherrose




:icon_chuckel: Sheva Sweety, you and I are about 30 years apart. When I transitioned I
was a forty year old, 240lb, male long haul trucker, capable of lifting his own
weight over his head and every step I took was trial and error. The only
one supporting me was me, the people here at Susan's and my Mama.

What passes in California isn't necessarily kosher all over the country.
Be perceived to be in the "wrong" bathroom in some jerkwater and
Constable "Bubba" answers the call... you are in a world of hurt.





Post Merge: September 08, 2009, 11:51:13 PM




Quote from: Laura Hope on September 08, 2009, 11:09:21 PMOh a kid story tangent - not a bathroom but still....


A kid/bathroom/passing anecdote.  :icon_chuckel:




"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

barbie

Quote from: heatherrose on September 08, 2009, 10:12:39 PM



It was very early in my transition and
I was not secure in my "passing" ability.
I was scared of getting into problems with the law.




I think in most countries and states, there is no law code on that matter.

Last weekend, in the airport of Atlanta, I used lady's, but saw a gentleman entered women's mistakenly. If a law code exists, then he could be punished, but it would be very harsh. That can not be any kind of crime, unless he does something further wrong there.

Barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
  •  

heatherrose



Quote from: barbie on September 09, 2009, 12:18:58 PM...but saw a gentleman entered women's mistakenly.

If a cop is called it would be because a male "sexual deviant" has gone
into a lady's restroom on purpose, not because a man has accidentally gone
through the wrong door. The fact that there may not be a law against something
does not shield you from an interface with a redneck pig itching for
an excuse to pull his billy club, taser, pepperspray or sidearm.


Early in 2006 waiting for a Billings, Mt. mechanic shop to rebuild
the grenaded engine in my truck, I walked the few blocks, after last call,
to my motel room. A Billings cop pulled up beside me, with blue lights flashing
and a blast from his siren, over his P.A., the cop says, "Stop right there." He
approaches me he demanding, "What are you doing?" I told him, "Walking to
my motel. Is there a problem officer?" "I need to see your I.D.", he says. I
handed it to him. I asked again, "Is there a problem, officer" He asks, "This
is your I.D.?" I said, "Yes, it is." He asked, "Mr. ------, why are you walking
around this late at night, dressed like THAT, with an Arizona D.L.?" I said,
"My truck is being fixed at ------ and I am walking from the bar to my motel,
to go bed." "You have a room there?" "Yes", I said. He says, "You shouldn't
be walking around this late at night, "Ma'am". I'll give you a ride." I said,
"Thank-you but it's only another block, I can manage." "I insist.", he says.
I get in the back seat, as directed, hoping I'm going to my motel. He drops
me off at my motel room door. In full view of anyone. I thank him for the
ride and go into my room. He goes to the front desk as
I watch from my motel room window.

The next night instead of going to my motel, I walked to "Denny's",
a few blocks in the opposite direction, for breakfast. Two officers, I've
never seen before, drive past going in the opposite direction. They hit the
blue lights, flip a U-turn and pull up sideways in front of me. The cop on the
passenger side jumps out, yelling, "STOP RIGHT THERE!"  I stop right there.
The cop who was driving is now on the radio and his partner is demanding to
see my I.D. I look through my purse for my I.D. and put it in his hand, the one
not hovering over his side arm. He hands it to his partner and demands what I
am doing. I tell him, "I am going to Denny's to get something to eat." His partner
calls him to the car, they talk and addressing me, he says, "You're the one that
had a "run in" with "us", last night." I tell him, "I wouldn't call it a "run in", the
gentleman gave me a ride to my motel room." His partner calls him back to the
car, hands him my I.D. and they talk for a minute. Without a word, the cop
comes back, hands me my I.D., gets in the car and they take off.

I am sure that if the second cop I "interfaced" with had been alone
and had I questioned his right to stop me, the situation probably would not
have ended the same way. For the next week that I was in Billings, I paid for
a cab to drive me the few blocks, whenever I needed to go anywhere. When
I told a few of the cabbies about my "run ins" with the cops, they were at a
loss as to why they would have harassed me like that. The area I was
staying in was not a "redlight district" and according to them,
I didn't look or act like a whore.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

Britney_413

Heatherrose, that is a shame and ridiculous that you had those issues back in MT with the police. I've had similar run-ins with police about why I'm out late at night, etc. but so far I've never been in "girl mode" when it actually happened. Maybe it isn't wise according to some, but I have started to get a bit "smart" with the cops when this happens. You have the right to walk down the street, any street, at any time, wearing whatever you want. I'm sick of police wasting time worrying about random people's petty personal habits when they should be out going after real criminals. It is none of their business who you are or what you are doing as long as you are not breaking the law. I refuse to answer their requests or even give them an ID if they don't have probable cause. It is not their job to be providing opinions on how you should live your life (i.e. you shouldn't be here late at night). What the hell is wrong with this country?
  •  

LordKAT

I may be wrong but I believe that refusing to show your ID is refered to as obstructing an officer.
  •  

K8

Quote from: LordKAT on September 10, 2009, 03:43:48 AM
I may be wrong but I believe that refusing to show your ID is refered to as obstructing an officer.

Yes, and the next step is a trip to the station where they can check your ID more thoroughly if they are so inclined.  And don't think it will be easy to refuse a trip to the station.

Most law enforcement officers are just doing a very difficult job as best they can, but there are a few who are bored and looking for entertainment (trouble) or were never whole before they put on a badge and gun and therefore want to exercise their authority.  In my experience those are a very small percentage, but you never know when you'll run into one.

Keep yourself safe.  And try not to p*** off anyone carrying a gun.

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
  •  

heatherrose




Quote from: K8 on September 10, 2009, 07:51:06 AM
In my experience those are a very small percentage...

FFFEEW Great, that means I've probably run into them all.
The rest should all be tolerant, professional, peace officers.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

barbie

Quote from: heatherrose on September 09, 2009, 08:48:25 PM
The fact that there may not be a law against something
does not shield you from an interface with a redneck pig itching for
an excuse to pull his billy club, taser, pepperspray or sidearm.

heartrrose,

Really sorry for hearing that. I heard that central states in the US are relatively conservative, but in your case, it think the cops broke the law, and could be punished in the court. But nobody is actually willing to sue them.

I was in Maryland and DC areas for 11 years, and had never experienced that kind of incident. The cops should have a clear reason to stop me, for example breaking a traffic law.

In my country, cops could be armed but seldom use it. Even armed, in most cases, they actually don't have real bullets in the gun. If they stop me and ask ID, then I will ask them to show their own ID, then ask them to explain the reason why they stopped me.

About 3 months ago, I made a fuss and a patrol car came to us. But no problem. I once posted that story at: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,61579.0.html

Barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
  •  

heatherrose




In this country if you were to lay down drunk, in the street,
especially dressed as you were, you would be going to jail and
would probably "fall down" several times on your way there.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

tekla

The US is huge, and the cop population is, umm, diverse.  Some are great, others are good, lots are terrible.  It's hard to prosecute them though, particularly in rural areas.

So much depends on a) the cop's perception of what is going on, and b) how much real police work they have to do.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

shanetastic

Quote from: tekla on September 10, 2009, 10:36:29 PM
The US is huge, and the cop population is, umm, diverse.  Some are great, others are good, lots are terrible.  It's hard to prosecute them though, particularly in rural areas.

So much depends on a) the cop's perception of what is going on, and b) how much real police work they have to do.

The problem with law enforcement I see from a few friends and family member who are in it is that they do everything like the military.  And with your in some hyper masculine subculture it really doesn't work out the greatest for diversity for people who are gay, lesbian, tg etc I believe. 

Sure, they teach diversity, but they don't have to practice it.  Most police tend to be on a power trip and high on life.  Of course, that's just my opinion.  I have met some very nice down to earth people as well.  Just that much variety I guess.
trying to live life one day at a time
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Mister

It seems to me that people need to learn their rights and responsibilities when dealing with law enforcement.
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tekla

Yeah, but even that's up to debate there Mister, your 'rights' in dealing with the police in SF are a lot different from doing it with a sheriff in a rural county in Wyoming.  And a police officer is duty bound to investigate anything they think is a crime, or a potential crime.  And I'm pretty sure that as a lawful authority you have to produce ID when asked.

I would think that in Billings Montana - not exactly a bastion of liberal thought or anything - the cop figured he was doing a service (to protect and serve) by taking you to the room, thus avoiding a fight, or worse.

And, I'm just as sure that the reason they were doing that, and would not in SF, is because in SF they have lots and lots - too many - real crimes to go after and can't afford to sweat the small stuff.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Mister

You only have to provide ID if you're driving a car or being detained.  If you're being detained, they need to tell you why (and not just 'you looked suspicious'). 
  •  

tekla

A police officer may ask a citizen for identification and use the information garnered from the request, even if the officer has no reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed, according to a ruling from the Sixth Circuit on Thursday.  Generally police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur — a situation known as a Terry stop. Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as "I would like to see some identification" are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.

In the case at hand, an officer followed a car in a neighborhood that had recently had a number of burglaries.  The driver parked in an empty building's lot, then got out and made a phone call.  The officer parked, walked over and asked if there was a problem.  The man said he was lost and asking his girlfriend for directions and handed the cellphone to the officer to prove it.  The officer then said he'd like to see the man's I.D. so he could log the encounter.  The man hem and hawed, said he didn't have I.D. on him, and then told the officer a name he often went by, but which had no record of a driver's license.  The officer then patted him down, asked to see what was in his pockets, found drugs and then found a loaded gun in the car.

While the lower court threw out the drugs and gun as evidence, ruling that the officer had actually seized the man by asking him for identification, the Sixth Circuit reversed (.pdf) that saying that a request from an officer for identification is just a request and a citizen should know they are free to walk away.

In practicality, that's not how citizens interact with cops and declining a cop's "request" is going to make any cop suspicious and lead them to further investigate you.  But as a matter of law, if you are a citizen on the street and a cop asks you for identification, you have MORE legal protections if you say no and force them to find or make up a reason to initiate a Terry stop. Instead of showing identification or saying you don't have any or don't want to show it, simply ask "Am I free to go?"  And you should never consent to any search of your person or bag or car, even if you are told you will be in more trouble if you don't.

And refusing to identify yourself when in the midst of a Terry stop can land you in jail, depending on your state's laws, according to a recent Supreme Court decision known as Hiibel. The story behind the cowboy who fought the law and lost in that case is here.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Mister

Like I said, you don't have to provide ID unless you're under certain conditions.
  •  

tekla

In court it's your word "I wasn't doing anything" against the cops "suspect was seen in an area of known drug dealing, or known prostitution, or acting suspiciously" --- guess who they believe?

Oh yeah, they have a gun and a taser too, do you really want to challenge them?  I've been asked several times for my ID when I'm out late (3am) taking pictures, I give it to them, along with my union card and theater laminate and tell them the truth - never seems to be a problem.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

barbie

I guess gun possession has caused such subtle differences with respect to rules of police officer. In most countries where gun possession is not allowed, most suspects can be assumed that they do not potentially present immediate threat to the police officer.

For example, in my country, a police officer should have ample and solid reasons of firing his gun, even if the suspect presents immediate danger. Else, he would be charged of excessive self-defense, as 99.99% of citizens here do not possess any gun. And, even when the suspect wields a knife or others to threaten the life of the police officer, he should fire his gun at the legs of the suspect. If he shoots at the torso or head, then he would be also face the charge of excessive self-defense. Killing the suspect by the gun would be tolerated in such cases like hostage in which it is difficult to make a good hit in the distance.

In most cases, police officers here assume that we are not threatening their life, even though we could have violated some law codes.

Barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
  •  

tekla

Different world here, police often shoot first, ask questions later - particularly in the use of tasers.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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barbie

A problem here is that it is difficult to see any police officer when we indeed need their help. To save personnel expenses, the police heavily depends on the CCTV which is installed in virtually every places in this country. All of the police officers are too busy doing bureaucratic paper works and investigating other serious criminal cases, sometimes ignoring the help call. This once leaded to a big news here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/03/117_21677.html

Barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
  •