QuoteFrom 1997 till now, I fell in love with 14 men deeply and tried to bind earth and sky so that they love me

Ummm......

QuoteUnfortunately the only way for me to forget the previous one is to quickly find and concentrate on another one to subcede the previous one and fortunately for me it works but it seems to be this chain effect is lasting forever now and I'm really more than exhausted

I don't want to be the cynic here but I'm going to - that thing you fell more than once a year for the last 12 years?

That ain't love.

No one falls in love 14 times in 12 years unless it's with puppies or kittens.

the best thing you can do to find someon to REALLY be in love with is simple - quit looking.

Concentrate on YOU, who YOU are and who you are going to be - define yourself based on the content of your own being FIRST.

If you allow the "completeness" of your existance to be defined primarily through the approval of someone you are "in love" with you are being no more true to yourself than if you allow complete strangers to humiliate you as  a pervert or a freak.

But all that aside, a saner definition of what it is to be "in love" can only help you. Re-fixing your emotions on an available target while on the rebound from the last failed attempt isn't love, no matter what it feels like.

Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 12:50:29 AM
Perhaps you should look to date bi men instead.

Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.

may i ask just how old are you? you look around 20 in the picture, if that is you and if the pic is of a recent date

Quote from: Mari on September 17, 2009, 03:49:54 AM
may i ask just how old are you? you look around 20 in the picture, if that is you and if the pic is of a recent date

I'm in my mid twenties. That pic anyway is not recent and was the time I looked feminine and undamaged. Now the testosterone has ruined everything. Facial hair, more prominent adam apple, beard, mandibular jaws, deep voice, wide shoulders. It's a complete living nightmare! I'm striving to get back my lost feminity. Before, when I was younger than in the pic I looked naturally female when I was a child, in early adolescence people use to think I am a lesbian and my female voice was still here and when cross dressing I was passing 100%, now they say I look like a ->-bleeped-<-. Very seldom I pass, but most of the times I do not anymore now compared to before, that's why you never see a current pic of mine now.

I'd rather be honest, up front, and open. And be either loved or hated as who and what I am, as is, with all my baggage, history and issues. Than risk having the lie through omission be discovered, and ruining an established relationship.

The truth is always preferrable to lies in my experience. It's the only way to find a person who'll accept you as you are, because people can not accept you as you are if you don't show/tell them how you are. And then when they find out later that you aren't what they thought you were, they'll be hurt and angered. Even people that would have accepted you can decide they can't be with you because they feel cheated.

I can only speak from a male perspective, being a heterosexual male myself. Most men have this 'ego' thing going on. You know, when you tell them, when you pour your heart out, and they suddenly manage to turn everything around so that it's all about them and no longer about you? That's it, that's what I'm talking about. Somehow, they _have_ to put themselves somewhere into the equation. For some reason, they start questioning themselves, and their fragile little egos cannot handle that. Most people (both men and women) are unable, unwilling to think about themselves.

If you tell someone, and they react poorly, it's not about you. It's about them, and their unability, unwillingness to confront themselves. Somehow, they feel confronted by themselves. They run away, not from you, my dear Shelina, but from themselves...

This is why it is a good idea to be very careful who you divulge this information to. Usually, if you learn to know a person, you can somewhat predict their reaction beforehand.

There are men out there who appreciate you for who you are. Who don't care what you are born as, but who appreciate you for the woman you are. And no, they are not gay or bi or even bi-curious... You're a woman, period. You're a lady, and you deserve to be treated as such.

Alas, they are few and far in between... What does it matter what you are born as? It doesn't matter a single thing. It's only a shell, what matters is what lies inside, the person behind the facade (if I may call it that). What matters, is what you have within yourself to become... Everything else doesn't matter.

When my girlfriend (m2f post-op) told me, my entire world view, so carefully construed according to my own illusions, was greatly shaken and decisively altered. I had never been confronted with gender disphoria before. It had no place in my world, simply because I was ignorant, I did not even know it existed... And yet, right in front of me, there was this girl who I got along with so great, and she told me 'she didn't always look like this'.

I've said this a number of times already here, but it only took me two seconds to realise it didn't matter one bit... I was startled, yes, but who wouldn't be? After she told me, she looked deep into my eyes, and I realised it didn't change what a wonderful person she is. She has the most beautiful eyes I've ever seen. She truly is a queen among women.

We're not all like those 'men' you've encountered. Some of us genuinly care, appreciate you for who you are. But it is true, we're few and far in between. Please do not let that dissuade you from being the wonderful person you are...

Quote from: Laura Hope on September 17, 2009, 02:42:00 AM
I don't want to be the cynic here but I'm going to - that thing you fell more than once a year for the last 12 years?

That ain't love.

No one falls in love 14 times in 12 years unless it's with puppies or kittens.

the best thing you can do to find someon to REALLY be in love with is simple - quit looking.

Concentrate on YOU, who YOU are and who you are going to be - define yourself based on the content of your own being FIRST.

If you allow the "completeness" of your existance to be defined primarily through the approval of someone you are "in love" with you are being no more true to yourself than if you allow complete strangers to humiliate you as  a pervert or a freak.

But all that aside, a saner definition of what it is to be "in love" can only help you. Re-fixing your emotions on an available target while on the rebound from the last failed attempt isn't love, no matter what it feels like.

What Laura said.

The only times I've found love - real love - was when I wasn't looking for it. 

Learn to accept yourself.  If you can't accept yourself, how do you expect someone else to?

Learn to become a lovable person.  If you are so needy you aren't complete without someone loving you, you will have a hard time finding someone and who you do find will probably not treat you well.  Work on becoming a whole person that people will want to be with, first as friends.

Life 101: You can only control yourself; you cannot control how others think or react.

Good luck.

- Kate

Quote from: Shelina on September 17, 2009, 03:36:35 AM
Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.

Are you sure that your definition of love isn't infatuation? I haven't even been infatuated with 14 people in my life.

I'm not sure that many other straight MTF are attracted mostly to "extreme straight men" since, at least to me, the label conjures up someone who's identity is entirely entwined with his sexuality, and anything that might remotely chip at it is a mortal sin. Also that they're violent and will hurt us.

Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.

I have actually been battling my personal image of men for some time. Society tells us that men who are kind, or considerate, or bi, or gay, are less than dirt. Well, it's a little better now, but not much. When I meet a guy who's nice to me, my instincts tell me that he's weak. Probably just how a lot of people who see me as a man think. I think that's unfairly judging men and a great example of the pressures that men face in society.

Well...I'm probably done with the whole dating thing but if I ever got with a straight woman/gay man I'd have to tell them I'm trans. It might make dating harder, but I wouldn't feel right  keeping that from them

Quote from: Shelina on September 17, 2009, 03:36:35 AM
Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.

What do you mean by "extreme straight" as opposed to just "straight" (heterosexual)?

Susan's reply was bang on the money and, as I've said myself, it's not cool to surprise even the most liberally minded of people and then expect them to shrug it off unperturbed.

Finally, I'm doubtful that an entirely straight guy, without even a hint of bi-curiosity, is going to be comfortable being sexually intimate with a pre-operative MtF.  The relationship might be "straight" psychologically but physically it's hard to ignore the few extra dangling ounces, even if they're not actively used for sex.

A transsexual woman is a woman who was born with a bran of a female & a body of a male.  If she's had that treated, and had her legal identity corrected, there is no fraud in her marrying a man; she is a woman (not 'an abomination').

We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something. Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,

Also because some of you have this bias I have to assume you believe that a post-op transsexual woman is still their gender as assigned at birth. Wrong again. I was never male. I have always been female. So why should I tell them I was something I never was?? I had a birth condition and I fixed it.  That's all there's to it.

Further, I don't have a problem. People have a problem. Transsexuality is a naturally occurring birth condition. I was born with a brain-body mismatch and it's not my, or anyone else's, fault. It is NOT a choice. Society needs to learn this. I refuse to cater to a transphobic society, I have nothing to explain or apologise for.

Quote from: Valentina on September 18, 2009, 04:03:22 AM
A transsexual woman is a woman who was born with a bran of a female & a body of a male.  If she's had that treated, and had her legal identity corrected, there is no fraud in her marrying a man; she is a woman (not 'an abomination').

We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something.

Are we reading the same thread?  I don't see such assertions implied in previous responses.

Quote
Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,

I would agree in most cases except where a serious, potential life partnership, is concerned.

If my partner wants children but I lack the faculties, should I commit a lie of omission for reasons of personal privacy?

Quote
Further, I don't have a problem. People have a problem. Transsexuality is a naturally occurring birth condition. I was born with a brain-body mismatch and it's not my, or anyone else's, fault. It is NOT a choice. Society needs to learn this. I refuse to cater to a transphobic society, I have nothing to explain or apologise for.

Your quite right in that you have nothing to apologise for.  However, the latter context of this thread has been around dating and sexual contact.

In an encounter with a  pre-operative trans-person, a heterosexual, cisgendered person with no understanding or experience of gender dysphoria *is* going to be surprised and quite possibly uncomfortable because they don't have access to your subjective experience - only an objective view of your genital configuration.  While it may be a comforting conceit to dismiss this as transphobia, I have to strongly disagree.

For example, there's a big difference between a straight guy being homophobic and not wanting to have sex with a partner who has male morphology.  So why should that same straight guy be tagged as transphobic just because of your dysphoria.  I had to burst any bubbles here but that's not his problem either.

In short, don't wallow in misplaced righteous indignation and misconstrue everything that doesn't go ones way as prejudice.

Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 01:19:27 AM
What do you mean by "extreme straight" as opposed to just "straight" (heterosexual)?

Category 1 (Extreme Straight) will NEVER cede to a transsexual(both pre-op & post-op) no matter what just because you are not a genetic female. They view you extremely OBJECTIVELY.

Category 2 (Moderate Straight) They accept you ONLY if you are a post-op and have the correct body to satisfy them.

Category 3 (Liberal Straight) They view you as a woman and accept you as you are whether pre-op or post-op and their perception on you is more SUBJECTIVE. They are the minority of straights unfortunately.

Sorry I have created my own terms cos I get confused with the common terms people use. I presume my Category 1= Straight Category 2:BiCurious Category 3:Bi   I am not sure though, please correct me if I am wrong. Gender is something very complex which is exploding my head and I am learning new stuffs like I recently learnt 'lesbian mft transsexuals' and another ones who are mtf transsexual but are attracted only to straight females. All this is very confusing and convoluting. I admit I get lost sometmes.

Those three different categories are all straight people. The issue isn't "how straight" they are, but how secure they are in their own self identity, sexuality, and so on and so forth. Has nothing to do with their sexual preference in reality.

Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 11:35:28 PM
Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.

Amen, sister.

Quote from: Valentina on September 18, 2009, 04:03:22 AM
We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something. Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,

I am a transsexual.  This is a normal condition and I am a normal person.  I have many friends and acquaintances that know I am transsexual.  If there is any chance that a potential partner would meet any of those friends or acquaintances - or know or meet anyone who knows any of those friends or acquintances - I want him to know that I am transsexual before he finds it out from another source.

And I believe Shelina is pre-op.  The very idea of not telling a partner you are a pre-op transsexual before they discover it for themselves shows very little concern for the feelings of your partner.  Surprise!  I have an outie!

Are we talking about love here or are we talking about finding someone to have sex with?

- Kate

QuoteSurprise!  I have an outie!

Oh that made me chuckle

I also want to add..

To suggest that a man has to be bisexual to be attracted to a male to female transsexual is indirectly suggesting that mtfs aren't women.
To me, you girls are all girls. To a man who can get over his own personal issues (should he have them), you girls are girls.
No bisexuality/homosexuality required!
_

As a man in a woman's body, I would be seriously insulted if someone would suggest that I'd have to look for straighter men and gayer women because of my medical history instead of being honest and accepted as the man I am. Like I am.
Yes my partner is bi, but to him, I'm a man. No ifs ands or buts!

Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 09:04:08 AM
I also want to add..

To suggest that a man has to be bisexual to be attracted to a male to female transsexual is indirectly suggesting that mtfs aren't women.

Really? Yet folks protest that gender was in the brain, not the body - so why is suggesting a straight man won't be interested in male genital anatomy suggesting pre-op mtf's aren't women?

We're talking purely about the physical here.  An entirely straight man is unlikely to find masculine genitalia sexually attractive - I suspect they will find it off-putting most of the time.

Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 09:24:23 AM
Really? Yet folks protest that gender was in the brain, not the body - so why is suggesting a straight man won't be interested in male genital anatomy suggesting pre-op mtf's aren't women?

We're talking purely about the physical here.  An entirely straight man is unlikely to find masculine genitalia sexually attractive - I suspect they will find it off-putting most of the time.

If you find a woman sexually attractive, does that depend entirely on what's in her pants?

Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
If you find a woman sexually attractive, does that depend entirely on what's in her pants?

Your inversion is misrepresenting my argument.

I'm not saying it depends solely on what's in her underwear.

I'm saying a straight guy is almost certainly not going to want to be intimate with male genital morphology.