I disagree frankly....

Nobody knows who you are... Your real name, your occupation, location etc unless you give it. As far as 'real life' the imporant part goes, im not out.

Stealth, to me, is a difficult term, I'm not paticularly fond of the intricacies and varied definitions. I'll just say this.

I live as the girl I am,
Everyone that interacts with me on a daily basis, does not accept me as a girl. They know no different. (Acceptance imo is another word for 'dont quite think you're x')
My university know me as female
my friends know me as female
my housemates know me again, only as female.

Now due to the fact I'm here posting on a transgendered forum, suddenly negates the fact that i live the life of a female, not a transgendered woman. Ok....

The internet CAN be quite intricately intertwined with life, OR in this case imo, a distant vague connection that has absolutely no relevance to day to day life.Valuable? yes, totally. But being 'out' here is a relative term. Nobody is really OUT on here.  To people who know eachother in real life on here, yes, ok, you're out to each other, but then it trancends the 'life' 'internet' boundry.

Most here i wager dont know anyone, and frankly, most here could be absolutely anything.

Words on a screen are a very flexible thing. 105 keys with an infinate number of combinations are no more likely to be honest than lie.

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 15, 2009, 01:00:26 PM
...

Words on a screen are a very flexible thing. 105 keys with an infinate number of combinations are no more likely to be honest than lie.

105 keys wow, mine doesn't have that many.  I guess that means you guys can lie better than me LOL

-={LR}=-

Quote from: FairyGirl on October 15, 2009, 12:43:45 PM
Sweetie I wasn't agreeing, just repeating the general attitude of what I had read, as I prefaced it by saying "by those definitions". My second paragraph was to question any such pat definitions. I agree with you that the internet is not the same, and I'm thankful for those like you who share your insights and experiences here, we would surely be worse off without you.

***HUG***

Sorry I didn't read every post here, so my little comment may have been already made. As a social worker and TS myself, I have seen that the ability to be stealth is often decided by how much money one has for things like FFS and other proceedures that can really enhance "passing". Money can make a huge difference in how one deals with life. As a "socialist", I think stealth can be a class issue.

Quote from: xsocialworker on October 16, 2009, 09:39:48 AM
Sorry I didn't read every post here, so my little comment may have been already made. As a social worker and TS myself, I have seen that the ability to be stealth is often decided by how much money one has for things like FFS and other proceedures that can really enhance "passing". Money can make a huge difference in how one deals with life. As a "socialist", I think stealth can be a class issue.

If you grow up in an environment that is accepting and supportive and if local laws allow it, it is possible to avoid the costly procedures such as (for the girls) FFS, hair removal or replanting and BA or (for the guys) mastectomy and maybe even to a degree bottom surgery, by simply adjusting your hormones at or before puberty.  For both sides, the outward appearance would be unmistakably their identified gender.

There's no doubt there's a class issue for those who feel animosity towards others in their group.  We've seen a lot of that here lately in the creating of sub groups, young & old, stealth & out, early transitioners & older transitoners.  But it's the hostility that follow that makes dividing us into sub groups unfortunate.

Each of us comes to this forum with our own baggage.  At times we read something that stirs up something in that bag and apply it to our interpretation.  And, on occasion, we direct our emotions towards whoever happens to cross our paths at the time.  It's called kicking the cat.

A man is called into the boss's office.  Just before he arrives the boss is on the phone arguing with one of his suppliers and becomes furious that the supplier won't have the goods delivered in time.

The man knocks on the boss's door and the angry boss calls him in.  The boss only wanted to ask his opinion of something but is not too upset to focus and instead chews the man out for something that wasn't his fault.

The man leaves work, goes home and walks in the door.  He is greeted warmly by his wife but he instead yells at her.

The wife walks into the kitchen as one of the kids comes in the back door.  She yells at him.

Then the cat walks by and the kid kicks it.

That is what we see here too.  Maybe we should think before we kick the cat.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 16, 2009, 11:08:04 AM
If you grow up in an environment that is accepting and supportive and if local laws allow it, it is possible to avoid the costly procedures such as (for the girls) FFS, hair removal or replanting and BA or (for the guys) mastectomy and maybe even to a degree bottom surgery, by simply adjusting your hormones at or before puberty.  For both sides, the outward appearance would be unmistakably their identified gender.

...

Julie

And off on another tangent...

Errrrr... Are you suggesting that TS would be happy with only HRT? That the saving of $$$ would outweigh the importance of SRS, as long as the TS looked as they identify.  I only asked because in my mind I didn't transition because environment conditions you listed were favorable or unfavorable, I transitioned because I had to regardless.

-={LR}=-

Quote from: Ladyrider on October 16, 2009, 11:51:42 AM
And off on another tangent...

Errrrr... Are you suggesting that TS would be happy with only HRT? That the saving of $$$ would outweigh the importance of SRS, as long as the TS looked as they identify.  I only asked because in my mind I didn't transition because environment conditions you listed were favorable or unfavorable, I transitioned because I had to regardless.

-={LR}=-

Not at all.  Only that early hormonal intervention would reduce or eliminate certain costly procedures.  I didn't mention GRS because hormones won't address that.  Since no surgeons I know of will perform GRS on anyone under 18, anyone who is able to have early hormonal intervention would still have to wait until they are 18 for GRS.

The environmental conditions could result in the pre-pubescent individual not being able to get hormonal intervention.  Laws might prevent it.  Family could prevent it.  It has nothing to do with what the TG desires.  A 12 year old might know, without a doubt, that he or she is living in the wrong gender but if his or her parents are adamantly against it or against therapy, etc., it will be very difficult for that 12 year old to get the proper care.

At this point in medical science, there seems to be no way to completely change one's physical gender without surgery.  But early hormonal intervention can prevent the necessity of things like FFS, BA, hair removal, mastectomy and other procedures TG have if they have to endure birth gender puberty through to adulthood.  It's the best treatment available at the moment.

Julie

QuoteMaybe we should think before we kick the cat.

I don't like cats.  There's nothing more satisfying than the "thwap *screeeooow* !" of a good sound connection between leathered foot and cats arse.


Yes, I'm just kidding

Try and kick me in the butt there, lunch meat.

^{Also kidding}


Janet

I know many TSs that have transitioned and are NOT living in "stealth".  We are all activists in one way or another, and we all teach and educate others about the trans-experience.  Some of us are in Political activism, others of us are in spiritual circles where being trans has specific meaning, and some are in social circles where we are known as trans-women.
Being trans is who I am and I can no more deny that than deny my history.

But if there are some here who wish to do that, please go for it and be happy in stealth.

Quote from: Ladyrider on October 16, 2009, 11:51:42 AM
And off on another tangent...

Errrrr... Are you suggesting that TS would be happy with only HRT? That the saving of $$$ would outweigh the importance of SRS, as long as the TS looked as they identify.  I only asked because in my mind I didn't transition because environment conditions you listed were favorable or unfavorable, I transitioned because I had to regardless.

-={LR}=-

I think Julie may have been talking about ftms with the 'and maybe even bottom surgery to a degree' comment. There are some ideas that proper hormones administered at the right time may allow for substantial growth of the clitoris to more resemble a phallus.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote from: Nero on October 16, 2009, 02:21:00 PM
I think Julie may have been talking about ftms with the 'and maybe even bottom surgery to a degree' comment. There are some ideas that proper hormones administered at the right time may allow for substantial growth of the clitoris to more resemble a phallus.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right Nero.  I should have clarified that better.  Thanks!

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 16, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
You're right Nero.  I should have clarified that better.  Thanks!

Julie

np. God, I hope the situation you discussed happens one day. Early intervention would eliminate the need for so many surgeries and painful procedures such as electrolysis. Really the only thing left would be bottom surgery (which may be greatly aided by early HRT in ftms). It would prevent so much unnecessary suffering for transsexuals. What would it be like to grow up in a world where this was just seen as a routine, treatable medical condition?

I know some MTFs who have paid out over $100K for their surgeries.  I read that FTM bottom surgery could exceed that amount alone.  Besides the cost there's the emotional distress.  Imagine growing up in your real gender, not worrying about being different, not worrying about being accepted.  And your body develops just like the rest of the girls or boys.  Only one thing to address, the bottom.

If you look at all the costs, the pain, the emotional distress, early intervention is worth it even if there's a few wrong diagnoses.  Right now we've got it about 1% correct.  I think we can do better than that.

Julie

Quote from: finewine on October 16, 2009, 01:19:07 PM
I don't like cats.  There's nothing more satisfying than the "thwap *screeeooow* !" of a good sound connection between leathered foot and cats arse.


Yes, I'm just kidding

Ohh.... good job you're kidding... I LOVE cats!


As for the stealth things.... well, frankly, its not a choice... its my normal life... I'm just living how I was meant to be, being 'out' would take a lot of cosious effort! I just have too much to do without it. And isnt 'normal' life why we transition? to stop being abnormal and disfunctional and become who we're meant to be and functional?

Again, I haven't read every post (sorry)-----but it might be constructive if those who really believe that they are truly stealth explain how they accomplished it. I am not being facetious. I know people who can only dream of living stealth, so what are the keys for how you are doing it.

Thanks

Wake up, get dressed.... generally the best start.

Although it depends on age of transition, files on you, data, no employment history helps... a degree in a female name....

same boat as matilda... though around 11 years earlier on in her time scale... with our situation and transition age.... well, stealth is reality, not just a dream. Without those records and details, things become possible.

Thanks, but is there anybody who had a life in their birth gender including documents, transcripts, resumes, marriages,etc who has gone effectively stealth? I never will because if for no other reason, I've given newspaper interviews and they are links for years.

Dunno... probably not... But what depth of stealth do we mean? the 'no way anyone can know' way, or the 'people just dont know' way?

Hell you could go to Zimbabwe and herd sheep without anyone ever knowing.... but then you could work for the LAPD and have it all on record... Paperwork trails are what out people at this level.... if you have paperwork, and want to be stealth, get a job without any.... then its totally irelevant.