Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

physical characters that identifies transsexual

Started by ifonlyican14, November 05, 2009, 08:26:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ifonlyican14

hi
I have read here that transsexual have things in common, i dont mean things due to hormones, but psychological and physical, which exist even before hrt, is this true, is there any thing special about our communication with other people, can you tell
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: ifonlyican14 on November 05, 2009, 08:26:18 AM
hi
I have read here that transsexual have things in common, i dont mean things due to hormones, but psychological and physical, which exist even before hrt, is this true, is there any thing special about our communication with other people, can you tell

Gawd, if it were that easy!

Discounting intersex births for the moment, there really isn't any physical manifestation that shows (like a third eye, or something).  If there were, it would be much easier to diagnose being TS.  If you are intersex, there may be some physical manifestation, such as ambiguous genitalia.

However, regardless of our physical body, within ourselves, we know.  Usually from an early age, that there is something really, really wrong with our body.  Many describe it as knowing that you are the opposite sex from your birth gender.  For me it was a constant discomfort until I started to learn the differences between girls and boys.

It is that discomfort, that knowing that we are not who we seem to be, that is the real factor.  And it exists before any other change, including puberty.

These are generalizations of course, but it is a good outline.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

Miniar




"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
  •  

Asfsd4214

Quote from: ifonlyican14 on November 05, 2009, 08:26:18 AM
hi
I have read here that transsexual have things in common, i dont mean things due to hormones, but psychological and physical, which exist even before hrt, is this true, is there any thing special about our communication with other people, can you tell

It's true to a very limited degree.

As the other two posters have said, there's no 100% sure physical marker you can simply check for and say "yep, transsexual" or "nope, definitely not, you must have something else wrong with you".

However a few studies have shown a few traits that are more common in the TS population than the general population.

The most commonly referenced one is this...
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

It has a pretty limited sample size though, and can't be checked for until you're dead because medical imaging technology isn't accurate enough (they have to cut apart your brain and actually "look"  :o)

There's this one which suggests a potential common gene link...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7689007.stm


I get the sense you're looking for something a bit more tangible though, in that case the best we have (and it's not very good) is...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6TBX-4H16P9S-1/2/ae91dff18b1b99385054e3bf971d47f9

Which suggests a correlation between the 2d:4d ratio (basically your index fingers size compared to your ring fingers) suggesting a possible relation with prenatal hormone levels.


So, there are a few things that are more common in the TS community than they are for the average, but nothing proven to be a cause or certainty conclusively.
  •  

CharleneT

I've been in rooms full of TS folks, and no, there is not a physical "link".  For us, it is in the head  ;D
  •  

Northern Jane

Recent medical advancements in imaging have led to new studies (in the last 5 years) showing functional differences between the typical male brain and the typical female brain of living subjects, differences in the way the brain processes information. Small numbers of transsexual patients have been included in these clinical studies and indications have been that transsexuals exhibit brain activity patterns consistent with their "target sex".

Other recent works by psychologists have highlighted developmental differences between boys and girl which is also consistent with the concept of "different wiring".

Much of the recent findings of the differences is very unpopular with feminists and "the politically correct crowd" because of the fear it will be used to justify discrimination. (People just don't understand that "different" doesn't mean better or worse.)

Do a little research on "gender development" and "gender differentiation".

One day in the future it may be possible to test a child with MRI to determine the psychological gender long before the child is able to express it verbally.
  •  

Dawn D.

Quote from: Sandy on November 05, 2009, 08:58:27 AM
Gawd, if it were that easy!

there really isn't any physical manifestation that shows (like a third eye, or something).  If there were, it would be much easier to diagnose being TS. 

-Sandy


What!! You mean the rest of you here don't have that "T" stamped in your forehead like I do? lol! Crap! I wonder what it means then............... ???


Dawn
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: Dawn D. on November 06, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
What!! You mean the rest of you here don't have that "T" stamped in your forehead like I do? lol! Crap! I wonder what it means then............... ???
Dawn

I do, but mine is on the inside...

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

Bellaon7

Some one mentioned something about Crocadile Dundee in another similar thread...
  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: Bellaon7 on November 06, 2009, 02:04:11 PM
Some one mentioned something about Crocadile Dundee in another similar thread...

Yeah, I did.  "If you got a problem, you tell Wally. He tells everyone in town, brings it out in the open, no more problem.."

As far as us being alike, I suppose you could say two people who have been locked up in a cell for a couple of decades for a crime they didn't commit have something in common.  If nothing else, we have that in common.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Alyssa M.

Jane,

I have a hard time trusting the results of fMRI studies in general. Perhaps it's just because my field of study uses similar instruments as are used in medical imaging (indeed, many of them were invented for use in my field; it's one of our "killer apps"); we have enormous difficulties teasing out real effects from noise and bias in the analysis. FMRI studies seem to be equally susceptible to these difficulties, and for similar reasons.

Additionally, there is a huge question of interpretation. Any brain differences after a very young age might well be attributed to socialization; even in the case of trans people, it is possible that at a very young age, children raised in one gender identify with the other, and that this might provide a different kind of socialization.

So for me it's not so much a question of being politically correct, but scientifically  -- and in my field, "scientifically correct" means a five sigma effect in a blind analysis, even with far fewer questions of causation.

But it doesn't matter. The existence of trans people means that gender differences are real and almost certainly innate. But those differences are ones that cut to the heart of the deepest questions of identity, perception, and consciousness. They aren't questions that lend themselves to simple answers. In the end, what matters is not root causation, but lived experience.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
  •  

Naturally Blonde

Quote from: ifonlyican14 on November 05, 2009, 08:26:18 AM
hi
I have read here that transsexual have things in common, i dont mean things due to hormones, but psychological and physical, which exist even before hrt, is this true, is there any thing special about our communication with other people, can you tell

Unfortunitely, the physical signs are only too clear if male puberty has developed but psychological signs could and do appear a lot earlier in early childhood in many of us.
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
  •  

Bellaon7

Then there's the good ol' standby, just ask them flat out and guage their reaction. No harm, no foul.
  •  

Steph

Quote from: Sandy on November 05, 2009, 08:58:27 AM
Gawd, if it were that easy!

Discounting intersex births for the moment, there really isn't any physical manifestation that shows (like a third eye, or something).  If there were, it would be much easier to diagnose being TS.  If you are intersex, there may be some physical manifestation, such as ambiguous genitalia. ... <SNIP>
-Sandy

Hello Sandy.

"Ambiguous Genitalia"  Careful there...  See this from the Intersex Society of North America:

http://www.isna.org/faq/ambiguous

QuoteIs intersex the same as "ambiguous genitalia"?

No, saying someone has an intersex condition isn't the same as saying she or he was born with "ambiguous genitalia," because some people with intersex conditions have genitalia that look pretty typically masculine or feminine. So, for example, girls born with XY chromosomes and complete androgen insensitivity syndrome have genitals that look pretty typically female. And some children born with XX chromosomes and congenital adrenal hyperplasia are born with genitals that look thoroughly male. Yet nearly all medical professionals agree that these kinds of conditions are intersex.

Why do we put the term "ambiguous genitalia" in quotation marks? We don't particularly like the term since, as our Medical Advisory Board member Dr. William Reiner likes to point out, no child thinks his or her own genitals are "ambiguous." They're just their genitals. It's the grown-ups who are feeling ambiguous.

:)

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

http://www.facebook.com/switzerstephanie
  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: ifonlyican14 on November 05, 2009, 08:26:18 AM
hi
I have read here that transsexual have things in common, i dont mean things due to hormones, but psychological and physical, which exist even before hrt, is this true, is there any thing special about our communication with other people, can you tell

Sometimes there are quirks, yes... I would have to say. There are some people who just look... Wrong in their birth gender. Might be just cause I'm predisposed but I'm not just talking about how they carry themselves... I'm talking about the air they have about them and their bodies...

But its not like... ALL transsexuals have one thing in common. I think that our issues all have similar treatment, but that doesn't make the origins of who we are all the same (sometimes probably even a combination when we're developing)...

Not that I'm actually trying to make anyones claims less legitimate, cause thats BS. I'm just saying that there are ALWAYS exceptions.
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: Ladyrider on November 09, 2009, 06:39:26 PM
Hello Sandy.

"Ambiguous Genitalia"  Careful there...  See this from the Intersex Society of North America:

http://www.isna.org/faq/ambiguous

:)

-={LR}=-

Thanks, LR, I had missed that.  Gender is a spectrum, not a binary.  I do admit that I was generalizing.  I will try to be more precise in future.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

Eva Marie

There is a little more discussion on this topic here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,32265.0.html

I can't find the earlier thread about the arm carrying angle. I guess it aged off.

FWIW I have the girly elbow deal (my arms pop out from my sides when I rotate my arms and have my palms facing forward), and yes, I threw like a girl, which really didn't work out to well when I was in little league.
  •  

placeholdername

I have the arm-angle thing too, but IMHO the whole source of that thread was a lot of hokey mumbo jmbo.

But as far as physical things go, there aren't really unifying characteristics.  I'm pretty lucky in that my body is already feminine shaped in a lot of ways, but there are plenty of us who don't have that fortune, as well as many who could pass easily without ever needing hormones.
  •  

Hannah

Quote from: Ketsy on November 10, 2009, 04:39:33 PM
the whole source of that thread was a lot of hokey mumbo jmbo

I remember that, it was one of the most obscene loads of self serving crap I've ever heard. Doesn't everybody have that arm thing? I thought that's just how skeletons are built. It made me so mad I had to spend a week in the corner gnawing my ankle before I was presentable to the public again.
  •  

Silver

A lot of transwomen just seem more feminized than normal biomales.

Same with transmen (well backwards.)

So no definite thing but it seems pretty common to me.
  •