I am just graduating from nursing school and am considering the air force as my next career move. I am concerned about discrimination within the military, but am fully aware that I will probably have to hide everything about myself. Have any of you been in the military? If so, please give me some advice as to whether I should or not. My fear is someone will find out and I will be discharged because of it.

I am just graduating from nursing school and am considering the air force as my next career move. I am concerned about discrimination within the military, but am fully aware that I will probably have to hide everything about myself. Have any of you been in the military? If so, please give me some advice as to whether I should or not. My fear is someone will find out and I will be discharged because of it.

The only experience I have is ROTC, and a lot of hearsay about what goes on once you actually get in, but I don't think it's a huge problem to be yourself and be in the AF. You'll still have to do everything as a woman, and you can't get top surgery or anything like that, but as far as appearance and even taking T goes, you can usually get away with that. Hopefully if I'm giving you wrong info, someone who's been in will come along and correct me. The biggest thing you need to think about is if you can deal with being a woman and addressed as one for the next 6ish years. I know a lot of guys who thought they could handle it, then got in and freaked out, and now they want out. It's a huge decision so just make sure you put a lot of thought into it. I got DQ'd for a medical reason, but from one flyboy to another, thanks for even thinking about serving our country.

--Konnor

I've thought about the Navy before... but figured I probably wouldn't be able to handle it emotionally. I also have an urge to do another career as well and figured that it would be my last option.

I wonder what Canada's view on TG in the military is.

Edit: Found an article that may be interesting for Canadians. http://speakequal.com/?p=2646

My BF is retired master sargeant in the airforce. He was married 3 times (to women and had 4 kids). He was gay that whole time but had to hide everything about himself. Now he's slowly coming out to his family, kids ect. All his ex's know now that he's gay.  I don't think it's a far stretch to say you would have to hide everything about yourself or risk being removed from the military and most likely with a dishonourable discharge.

Quote from: konman on November 09, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
The biggest thing you need to think about is if you can deal with being a woman and addressed as one for the next 6ish years. I know a lot of guys who thought they could handle it, then got in and freaked out, and now they want out. It's a huge decision so just make sure you put a lot of thought into it. I got DQ'd for a medical reason, but from one flyboy to another, thanks for even thinking about serving our country.
--Konnor

Konnor, I am still called by female pronouns and by my birth name so that wont be a huge change by any means. I have the option of 3, 4, or 6 years so if I did make the decision to go into the air force I would probably choose the 3 years and see how I feel at the end of that. I will go in as an officer because I have two bachelors degrees, one of them is in nursing so I will be in the health professions side of it. I have done a lot of soul searching and am making some great strides to transitioning and then to have to take all that back kinda sucks. ->-bleeped-<- will I even be able to date?

Quote from: Kurzar on November 09, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
My BF is retired master sargeant in the airforce. He was married 3 times (to women and had 4 kids). He was gay that whole time but had to hide everything about himself. Now he's slowly coming out to his family, kids ect. All his ex's know now that he's gay.  I don't think it's a far stretch to say you would have to hide everything about yourself or risk being removed from the military and most likely with a dishonourable discharge.

Kurzar, Well, I understand having to hide it. But I can still date and whatever as long as I don't tell anyone? It just sucks because there is a camaraderie in telling someone and being able to trust them with it. I am used to now having those people in my life and feeling comfortable to express myself. How much hiding is necessary?

Quote
Kurzar, Well, I understand having to hide it. But I can still date and whatever as long as I don't tell anyone? It just sucks because there is a camaraderie in telling someone and being able to trust them with it. I am used to now having those people in my life and feeling comfortable to express myself. How much hiding is necessary?

My guess is everything. Don't get caught dating a female if you are a straight F2M. If you're gay it wouldn't be an issue to the outside world, they wouldn't think anything of it.  In the end it's up to you in wether you want to take that kind of chance. It's stupid that we are treated this way ..PERIOD.

Do you have any other options besides the military?

Hiding everything about yourself sounds a little like death to me. Is it worth it?

Quote from: Nicky on November 09, 2009, 05:09:20 PM
Do you have any other options besides the military?

Hiding everything about yourself sounds a little like death to me. Is it worth it?

I am in quite a bit of debt due to college. I went back for a second degree in nursing so I could make a better living and go to grad school, but the debt I have is quite high and living comfortably would be difficult without going in. I do not like the idea either, but if i wanted to transition later i would never have the money to do so. It is 3 years. I'll be an officer and in the health professions side of the air force. Can I put things on hold for three years is the question.

Ok I guess my post ever took so here goes again. or if you see this twice sorry.
I was in the Marines. Eventually discharged fro Homosexuality (yep they typed that on the paperwork), this was pre don't ask don't tell. I think the Air Force is a great choice and if you are going to be an officer even better. Everyone I know that says they want to join I tell them to go in the air force. Three years will allow you to see if you like it or not. As far as dating, dating in the military is hard no matter who you date, especially in this day and age with multiple deployments. There was and I am sure still is a large population of gay people in the military, probably the same 10% as the regular population. There will be people you work with that will probably know as you will see them at some gay bar or whatever, but that means they are also gay so it is all good. As far as the trans stuff not sure what to tell you, if you can put that off for three years then great if not there are plenty of other things to be stressed about while in the military adding another is probably not the best idea.
Good Luck
Myles

Do I guess correctly that you are F2M?

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 09, 2009, 05:22:21 PM
Do I guess correctly that you are F2M?

Yes, I am FtoM.

Sometimes you just have to do what you need to do. That does not sound like an easy choice but perhaps it will help set you up for a good future.

I get the feeling that nobody would boot you out for being too manly in the military. Perhaps in some ways it would be expected. And you would not be totally on hold, it would be perfectly acceptable to get a masculine haircut, work out to get some muscles and wear rather androgynous clothing.

I'd say go for it.

You have training and would be serving in a field that is greatly needed at this time

You should have no trouble being yourself. Granted, you will be placed among the women and viewed as such

So you like your hair short and exhibit a male persona. As long as you do your job and don't go on any "out to prove something" thing you should be fine.

Actually they will prob. think your great

One thing about the military that is different from any other occupation type is that they basically own you. You give up many of the rights you normally have as a citizen. I can't say from firsthand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure there is no way you could serve as a man, of course. And if you've made any sort of physical changes, that will will be known. And since you will live closely with others I think keeping your gender ID preference secret would be tricky. If I'm not mistaken, the military also gives psychological tests, too.

There are a lot of other low-paying/tough-training occupations with good benefits out there, though. I'd suggest looking into a few more options before signing up. You are young and youth is always in demand with employers.

I'm currently still on active duty and will tell you first hand its HARD. If you are willing to put off who you are for the next few years than sign up. I still date and have some friends who know but it doesn't make it easy. Don't forget to add in all the stress of deployments. You can hide lots here in the states but I promise its not easy over there. Just something to think about before you come in.

I served in the Marine Corps, and I don't think I ever met a female marine who wasn't tougher than I was.

It's a personal decision. Someone here once said it was the best decision they would never repeat. You'll learn things like discipline, bearing, and acquire an inner strength that can get you through just about anything. It's also paying for a masters degree now, 10 years later.

On the downside, yeah your'e looking at four more years in a deep dark closet. That would be a pretty dark side for me, how does it rank in your world? Not having interacted much with that side of things I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine there is much tolerance there either. On the flip side you're expected to behave in a masculine manner, so maybe what was my and other MtF's closet could be your spotlight. Personal thing, but I hope those reflections help a lil bit.

Also, it really isn't the best time to be a soldier for the Empire. If you join I'd think your chances of being shot at are still pretty good, and that's a whole other ball of wax honey.

My advice... DON'T.

The first thing they do is break you down mentally, to rebuild you the same as everyone else. For you, it will mean being like every other girl there. If the uniform of the day is skirts, you WILL be wearing a skirt. Everything is about being like the others, and you aren't.

Pretty much every former military person I know who is TG (and at least knew in the back of their mind at the time), has all had the same problem, MAJOR depression about the time you complete basic training. Not just ho hum depressed either, this is nearly a breakdown.

Then there is the risk. As Kurzar said, don't date women.
Honestly, that doesn't go far enough. You will need to date men. If you don't, they will eventually question you. You spend so much time around these people, that you end up knowing them as well as or better than their spouse. They will notice something is off, the only saving grace is that there ore quite a few "off" people in there.

You have to also keep in mind how it will effect G.I.D. You are being forced to conform to something very against who you are. Your brain will rebel. You may think you are fitting in, and actually getting further and from it. You don't have the choice of going out as a guy as a coping mechanism either. Not without a good long road trip, and even that is sketchy at best. I knew people who knew every place you could get a drink within 250 miles of base, they had been to all of them.

Quote from: Nicky on November 09, 2009, 05:31:13 PM
Sometimes you just have to do what you need to do. That does not sound like an easy choice but perhaps it will help set you up for a good future.

I get the feeling that nobody would boot you out for being too manly in the military. Perhaps in some ways it would be expected. And you would not be totally on hold, it would be perfectly acceptable to get a masculine haircut, work out to get some muscles and wear rather androgynous clothing.

I don't think I would be booted out for being manly, but I would if someone thought I was gay, transgender. I am a straight male, but they will not get that in the military.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 09, 2009, 05:33:23 PM
I'd say go for it.

You have training and would be serving in a field that is greatly needed at this time

You should have no trouble being yourself. Granted, you will be placed among the women and viewed as such

So you like your hair short and exhibit a male persona. As long as you do your job and don't go on any "out to prove something" thing you should be fine.

Actually they will prob. think your great

Virginia, Thanks!! I would hope as long as I do my job there would be no problems. If possible I will live off base on my own, that way I dont have to worry about others finding out and going to my commanding officers.

Quote from: Lyric on November 09, 2009, 05:41:04 PM
One thing about the military that is different from any other occupation type is that they basically own you. You give up many of the rights you normally have as a citizen. I can't say from firsthand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure there is no way you could serve as a man, of course. And if you've made any sort of physical changes, that will will be known. And since you will live closely with others I think keeping your gender ID preference secret would be tricky. If I'm not mistaken, the military also gives psychological tests, too.

There are a lot of other low-paying/tough-training occupations with good benefits out there, though. I'd suggest looking into a few more options before signing up. You are young and youth is always in demand with employers.

Lyric, Yes, they do own you in many aspects. I know i would not be able to serve as a guy and right now I am not ready to transition. I will be an officer which will be a plus. i will only live with others during the month I am in officer training. I dont need anything low paying or hard working. I am highly educated, but I have loan debt to go along with it. The military would help to get rid a large portion of that debt. I have looked into other options such as the peace corp, but they really dont pay much of loans. I am not sure of psychological tests.

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Post Merge: November 09, 2009, 06:06:24 PM

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Quote from: Becca on November 09, 2009, 05:57:55 PM
I served in the Marine Corps, and I don't think I ever met a female marine who wasn't tougher than I was.

It's a personal decision. Someone here once said it was the best decision they would never repeat. You'll learn things like discipline, bearing, and acquire an inner strength that can get you through just about anything. It's also paying for a masters degree now, 10 years later.

On the downside, yeah your'e looking at four more years in a deep dark closet. That would be a pretty dark side for me, how does it rank in your world? Not having interacted much with that side of things I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine there is much tolerance there either. On the flip side you're expected to behave in a masculine manner, so maybe what was my and other MtF's closet could be your spotlight. Personal thing, but I hope those reflections help a lil bit.

Also, it really isn't the best time to be a soldier for the Empire. If you join I'd think your chances of being shot at are still pretty good, and that's a whole other ball of wax honey.

Becca, thanks for your input. It is nice to hear from someone who has been in the military and is similar to myself. I am not afraid of being deployed, if I sign up that is part of my job. I will be a nurse in the air force so my chances of being on the front lines are slim. Being FtoM I think I have an advantage as you said. For females to be more masculine in the military is expected if not encouraged as I have heard. Did you date while you were in the military or go to gay clubs? (I am assuming you are gay, of course) I am a straight male, but have found a tad more acceptance in the gay world.

As far as the deep dark closet, I have very supportive family and friends that I can lean on and be myself around. As long as I can have that it will be easier.

Any other advice or others I can talk to?

Brady,
I spent 24 years in the military.  I was married to two different women who both knew I was a cross-dresser.  I had to repress a lot of it, but I was good at doing that.  (Now I'm paying the price, trying to peel all that off, but that's another story.)

I wasn't in the Air Force but was stationed with AF for a while.  I think as a nurse you would have a little more leeway than otherwise (being in the medical field and an officer), but you would have to be very discreet if you date women.  You would not be able to date any enlisted person – male or female.  It can be kind of a crap shoot because you just have to run into one real a$$h01e who finds out too much to ruin everything.  I've heard of pogroms in the nursing corps (bunch of lesbians, doncha know?), but that may be a thing of the past.

It will help you to be well-liked and exceedingly competent, but I saw several gay men cashiered even though they were 4.0 (highest rating).  I also knew a couple that had to keep their dating secret until one of them got out because she was an officer and he a senior enlisted.  (But I knew they were dating, as did several others.)

Serving in the armed forces can be very rewarding.  It can also drive you crazy because of how much of yourself you have to suppress.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

- Kate