Why don't you read the 5 recent stealth topics? Its pretty self evident frankly.

I can't see where the ego boost is... and From my own recolection of those topics, its mostly involved those that are stealth defending themselves and thier lives from snide jibes and digs.... Generally revolving around how 'sneaky/deceptive/cowardly/into weird foods' we are.

The only ego boosting I see is in defense of that viewpoint.

I'm honestly fairly suprised that members of the trans community persecute so blatently within thier own ranks.... For gods sake people, we get enough outside... what the hell are we doing sniping and bitching and moaning at eachother and discrediting other ways of living when we ourselves demand to live how we want?

The hypocracy surounding this entire subject, both sides, and any outcome, is almost toxic.

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 09, 2009, 06:47:52 PM
Why don't you read the 5 recent stealth topics? Its pretty self evident frankly.

I can't see where the ego boost is... and From my own recolection of those topics, its mostly involved those that are stealth defending themselves and thier lives from snide jibes and digs.... Generally revolving around how 'sneaky/deceptive/cowardly/into weird foods' we are.

The only ego boosting I see is in defense of that viewpoint.

I'm honestly fairly suprised that members of the trans community persecute so blatently within thier own ranks.... For gods sake people, we get enough outside... what the hell are we doing sniping and bitching and moaning at eachother and discrediting other ways of living when we ourselves demand to live how we want?

The hypocracy surounding this entire subject, both sides, and any outcome, is almost toxic.

Errr I think I said:

QuoteIt's general statements like this which create division.  I think it would be fair to say there are probably an equal number from each camp who have this we-they attitude.  It serves no purpose but to boost ego's.

Boost ego's on both sides.  Both sides are the cause of the hypocrisy.  We seem to agree on this n'cest pas

-={LR}=-

People like to boost their own egos, think their opinion is the only way, some get a nice kick out of degrading others as they feel it makes them not look so bad.  That is ingrained in humanity as far as I can tell and I will never understand it nor do I want to do so.  The act of degrading someones opinion for any reason is always a bad act.  There are always ways to argue/debate without making it personal.

It doesn't surprise me that even here there is some this.  However I can say it disappoints me greatly.  As others have said do we not see enough of this from our own families?  Friends that claimed they'd stick by us?  A biggot society still basing laws off religion and ways to make themselves feel comfortable.  Instead of what is right for us!  Ya, life ->-bleeped-<-ing blows but you don't push that on others!  No, matter how hard it gets.

Quote from: Korlee on November 09, 2009, 09:05:11 PM
People like to boost their own egos, think their opinion is the only way, some get a nice kick out of degrading others as they feel it makes them not look so bad.  That is ingrained in humanity as far as I can tell and I will never understand it nor do I want to do so.  The act of degrading someones opinion for any reason is always a bad act.  There are always ways to argue/debate without making it personal.

It doesn't surprise me that even here there is some this.  However I can say it disappoints me greatly.  As others have said do we not see enough of this from our own families?  Friends that claimed they'd stick by us?  A biggot society still basing laws off religion and ways to make themselves feel comfortable.  Instead of what is right for us!  Ya, life ->-bleeped-<-ing blows but you don't push that on others!  No, matter how hard it gets.

Amen Gurl!

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Post Merge: November 09, 2009, 09:33:20 PM

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Quote from: Bellaon7 on November 09, 2009, 09:29:23 PM
Amen Gurl!

Can this Gurl get another Amen? Anyone? 

Quote from: Laura91 on November 09, 2009, 09:36:41 PM
AAAAAAAAMEN!!

Aw, c'mone people, it's an easy word that doesn't require anything upfront or there after.

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Post Merge: November 10, 2009, 01:57:48 AM

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Quote from: Laura91 on November 09, 2009, 09:36:41 PM
AAAAAAAAMEN!!

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Post Merge: November 09, 2009, 11:58:06 PM

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Quote from: Laura91 on November 09, 2009, 09:36:41 PM
AAAAAAAAMEN!!

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Post Merge: November 09, 2009, 10:13:05 PM

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Oh & I also understand that getting along will never be as much fun dissemboweling each other over as important as, as, as,...oh it's on the tip of my tounge. Oh...I'm not any good at all at resposible adult stuff. 

I never did understand that whole evangelical christianity thing... heh.

Stealth, the subject that will never die...

The issue that will never be settled...

Abortion

     Religion

         Politics

               Stealth

                    How about just be?

Julie

I spent all this time fighting other gurls over boys, when there are all these other really important issues to fight over boys.

Where is this hate and discontent at? Please show us links to conversations in the forum where non-stealth are attacking stealth folks? All I see is someone trying to stir up trouble perhaps from their own twisted perspective.  I don't see it so show me.

Well, I don't belive i have a twisted persepective, or wish to stir up trouble. I'm rather sick of the trouble myself...

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,65546.0.html This topic is a perfect example.

for simplicity, non out people, vs out people.... The out people start the topic, and suggest hostility towards them, from non out people... 'on the internet' 'somewhere'.

Every response from someone that lives or identifies as stealth is sensible, calm and inoffensive. Yet others still make suggestions that stealth people 'look down' on them, and 'want to feel better.

I'm afraid I only see  petty bickering.

I can't possibly see a reason to look down on those people that are in the position I was three years ago... or that choose to be out.... Hell, it may create some problems, but it sure solves some.
Living 'unknown' has its own huge checklist of problems. Situations one wouldnt have problems with if they were out. The whole massive argument and jelousy seems to be a case of the house with the golden windows.... Everything looks better from a distance.

So it just seems perhaps there is just an interpretation of what some see.

I hate to see bickering back and forth. I should probably just stay away from threads like this.

One thing is for certain, I see no reason our community should divide over personal choices we make. I am/will be out to everyone as transsexual because it is my personal choice and I have no ill feelings for anyone that chooses to go stealth. We all have our own lives to live how we want to live them.

It comes over to me that you are still pre transition or early on Dana, without sounding condesending ( well its hard not to after saying it), your perspective can change as you transition, and as you get a taste of normality and invisibility... its intoxicating to be normal finally. I do notice a lot of the 'out and proud' mentalities coming from pre and early transition folk. (not entirely, but a predominance it apears)  I wonder if that plays a role? ( hell I was out at one point, we all were)

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 10, 2009, 07:27:02 AM
It comes over to me that you are still pre transition or early on Dana, without sounding condesending ( well its hard not to after saying it), your perspective can change as you transition, and as you get a taste of normality and invisibility... its intoxicating to be normal finally. I do notice a lot of the 'out and proud' mentalities coming from pre and early transition folk. (not entirely, but a predominance it apears)  I wonder if that plays a role? ( hell I was out at one point, we all were)

I am a fairly dynamic person and realize things can change. I am currently in a job I plan on retiring from one day and most of my coworkers and friends know about my transition (i am in the early stages). So far I feel more comfortable in my own skin than I ever have before. I really don't see myself ever going stealth but like you said! Time will tell.

You're right.

In my first year at college, i transitioned, and people knew and it was ok, but i felt like 'another' class especially because i was 'accepted'. I suspect an aspect of peer pressure and general attitude at my age, that i wanted to be 'like every other girl' and aspired to be like the role models I'd found. I expect trans just didn't fit in there... I never actively decided to hide, and still dont, it just never comes up, and i have no reason to. Happiness is in the heart.

Quote from: Dana Lane on November 10, 2009, 06:59:04 AM
So it just seems perhaps there is just an interpretation of what some see.

I hate to see bickering back and forth. I should probably just stay away from threads like this.

One thing is for certain, I see no reason our community should divide over personal choices we make. I am/will be out to everyone as transsexual because it is my personal choice and I have no ill feelings for anyone that chooses to go stealth. We all have our own lives to live how we want to live them.

That's exactly right Dana.

We all make personal choices and those choices are our own bussiness, not anyone elses.  Yes the choices may affect others but I would hope that we take those concerned into consideration before they are made.

Stealth is one such choice.  The reasons we do or do not go stealth are our own bussiness no one elses.  We are the ones that must live with the decision.

Comparing reasons why I am or am not stealth is kinda pointless as each of us have circumstances that influences our choices.  So to those who are stealth - Good for you, and for those who are not - good for you as well.  As long as you are happy everything else doesn't matter.

-={LR}=-

I guess "Going stealth" is just another "choice" some of us have. Personally I would rather go completely stealth and physically that will never be a problem but it would mean leaving my family and friends behind which so far have been very supporting.
Am I been selfish by leaving them?

Again, this goes back to your definition of Stealth.

Steath to me does not mean leaving behind supporting family and/or friends.  Stealth means you live your life (male or female) and don't go around shouting it out to everyone.  Just live your daily life as you.

But this disagreement just goes on and on.  The two sides of the discussion will never come to full agreement, why not just let each person decide for themselves how they want to live their life.

Sarah L.

Quote from: clhere on November 10, 2009, 03:50:21 PM
I guess "Going stealth" is just another "choice" some of us have. Personally I would rather go completely stealth and physically that will never be a problem but it would mean leaving my family and friends behind which so far have been very supporting.
Am I been selfish by leaving them?

Possibly. If i had a loving family, I'd cherish that, sometimes love is more important... its possible to live totally stealth but to have your family...  well not totally, but its an exception id make.... if i had one.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on November 10, 2009, 04:15:14 PM
Again, this goes back to your definition of Stealth.

Steath to me does not mean leaving behind supporting family and/or friends.  Stealth means you live your life (male or female) and don't go around shouting it out to everyone.  Just live your daily life as you.

But this disagreement just goes on and on.  The two sides of the discussion will never come to full agreement, why not just let each person decide for themselves how they want to live their life.

Sarah L.

I know why there are two camps but I don't think it's polite to explain the issues. Non B is also right that obviously close family will know and you can't be stealth with them but they can help a lot by not spilling the beans to others or new friends.

I personally prefer to keep a low profile and would never volunteer the information but if it was medically nessesary I may have to explain my origins if needed. I also personally don't understand the need for 'here's my transition website' mentality. Each to their own I suppose!

Quote from: Sarah Louise on November 10, 2009, 04:15:14 PM
Again, this goes back to your definition of Stealth.

This is where I have problems with the whole argument.  I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

To me, stealth is living in your real gender after transition and disassociating from and actively hiding the fact that you ever lived in another gender.  I don't want to do that.

If by stealth, you mean just getting on with your life in your true gender but keeping contact with your family, friends, not bothering to change all your records (birth certificate, college degree, etc.), being unoncerned about letting something slip (e.g. I'm a woman who once was married to a woman), then I guess I'm already stealth.

Or perhaps stealth is something else? 

I think a lot of this "argument" we are having revolves around differing definitions of stealth.  Perhaps we should either preface our remarks with how we define stealth or start a new thread and argue about the definition itself.

- Kate