I was wondering....are there any genderqueers who for whatever reason have decided to make a full transition?

If not, how far would transition go? How does one arrive at that decision?

QuoteIf not, how far would transition go? How does one arrive at that decision?

Plix, might I make a suggestion here?  Rather then finding a definition to try and fit into, in an apparent attempt to "join" something, wouldn't it be more productive to just simply Be what you are?

Still looking for the easy way out, with the least time and expense.  Scares me to death thinking about the consiquences of that.

Terri

Before i began my transition i presented as a female-leaning androgyne for about ten years, from 14 to 24. However I always identified as TS and was in therapy from 16 on. I presented the way I did because due my age and financial status i was unable to pursue hrt. Terri is right about being who you are, not just trying to fit in. In the long run you'll be much happier.

Let's not forget that I have been castrated and can therefore never live again as a 100% normal man.

I could go on TRT, which I won't, but even that isn't quite like having your own natural T.

I have the option of either living somewhere in between or as a woman. What do I choose?

Hello Plix

To be honest I'm not really up on "gender queer" but it would seem that you have put yourself in between the proverbial "rock and a hard place".  You have taken some drastic steps up to this point, but you are still asking "what do I choose".  No one can make that choice for you, it must be one that you make, and you alone. Who in this world can tell you what to choose, it must come from your heart, soul, and very being, the choice you make based on that will be the right one not one that you read about or one that we tell you to take.

 

QuoteLet's not forget that I have been castrated and can therefore never live again as a 100% normal man.

And why was it that this was done Plix?  Sit down, relax, and think hard on some important things.  Was it because you had an absolute belief in something and knew that no matter what happened from there on end it would make you a better person?

Or was it an attempt to force an issue, believing others would Have to give you something because of it? You were trying to effect a trade?  You thought what you had would buy you something?  If they were worthless to you, then why should your giving them up be worth anything to anyone else? From other posts I would have to believe this entered heavily into it.  A shortcut.  Something to "Prove" what you could not demonstrate by commitment, resolve and positive action, and it has backfired, and if so, where is the commitment and resolve to press ahead and overcome if the original belief, that you were actually female and wanted to become a woman were the truely and completely believed truth at the bottom of your core identity?

I'm no expert and do not know you, but it adds up to me that if you can't find a quick fix, your willing to settle for anything at all that will give you some credibility in the world, even if that world is not your own rather then make the necessary sacrafices and apply the dedicaton and commitment it actually takes to fulfill your original desire, brings the question of actual desire to the forfront.

It is not that I mean to question your actual intent or your heart, it is just that you open up the door wide to such curiosity by your refusal to do what it takes and willingness to settle for anything less that takes less time, effort and sacrafice. 

As to could never be a man because of what you have done, ask a FtM if he needs the real, fundtioning things to be a 100% man.  I have looked into the eyes of one of these and he is more of a man then I ever could have been, regardless of reputation, affiliation, or having all the correct parts. and he still got the whole wrong lower half.  Are you saying that a Man is defined purely by a testosterone producing gland?  and if worried about "function", yes most likely that could be restored if need be.  I'll tell you this, though it shatters me to admit it.  I'm orchied, and yes, it still works despite that.  I know it for a fact because a couple of months ago, my woman, "demanded" I try, it had after all been more then a year and a half since I last made the effort, and she went to sleep happy that night, though I got up and went back to my room to deal with what had just happened and ease my mind about it.

You want to cry about a loss you thought you were willing to make, do so if it makes you happy, but the fact is if you wanted to be a man, there is nothing stopping you.

If being a woman means more to you, then nothing but yourself stopping you there either, if that is what you are.  You are looking for sympathy and pity and that won't get you a cup of coffee toward these issues.

If you are willing to settle for something you are not, just to "be" something, more power to you, but don't expect much success at that either, as in effect, you would just be nothing if not what you are.

Time to get real Plix, you have tried to do things the easy way without having to make true sacrafices and effort and it hasn't worked.  You can either get with the program and do things right, or you can continue as you are forever.  Your Choice, at least you seem to have one.  excercise it!

Sorry about the offensive nature of this post and the personalism of it, but Plix, you need to be sat down and made to face yourself and the only way to do this is get your *** to therapy, ANY Therapyst, gender specialst or not. Only my deluded opinon of course.

I take such things very personal Plix, as those who enter into these things with the thought and commitment which you have and are demonstrating and are doing, only add to the "Myth" of transsexuality which is used against those who really believe and do what they believe in by those who seek means of preventing others from being and becoming what they really are.  Such people, if they believe it or not are aiding and abetting the war against us, and yes, deep down, I resent it.  But all I or anyone else expects you to do is what is truely right for you as you truely believe and have the resolve to fight for.  don't do any thing less or more.

Get down and dirty and FIGHT for what you really want.....

Terri

I'm going to have to agree with Terri's post.  It sounds to me by the wording of your post that you chose castration as an excuse to follow a path that you wanted to make, but were afraid to.  If I'm correct, then that is an issue that you should have worked out previously, but there's no use crying over spilt milk now.

But if there's anything that you do need to do, it is learn from the past.  Here is a quote from one of my favorite authors...

Quote from: Howard HendrixA mystic is a diver who can swim.  A schizophrenic is a diver who can't.  If you jump in too far over your head, you drown.  If you don't jump in over your head at all, you never learn to swim.

Not to be melodramatic or anything, but it sounds like you are in the deep waters.  Take a second, breathe, and think about what you want to do.  How do you want to react to the world, and how do you want the world to react to you?  Who do you want to associate with?  What does your life mean to you?

It sounds to me like you don't reallly want a full transition, that you think your life would be best spent as some androgynous being.  But at the same time, you are afraid of the trials and tribulations of such an existence, so you are biding your time and looking for a quick fix.  There is no quick fix.  There is no easy path to a partial transition, or even a full transition.  There's no magic fairy on the other side waving her magic wand to turn you into a woman through and through.  To put it bluntly, there is no correct choice.  You are either going to be torn apart internally, or torn apart externally by others.  You must decide which option is more acceptable.  Take your time.  You will have to live with that decision for the rest of your life.

If I'm wrong, please forgive my frankness.  I said what I thought needed to be said.

This post is old, but I have a sort of pic that I wonder if is accurate.

I am not an expert or psychologist or anything like that.

From what I have seen.
Percentage of Gender into opposite of birth Biology
Birth sex                                                                                                                           Full 100%TS Opposite of birth sex
0%-------------------------------40%------------50%-------------60%-------------------80%----------------------100%
                                                  *<-----somewhere in here--------><-------here----------><-------here------------->
                                                      Feeling of both, maybe dress or  May be more of other gender   May Hrt, SRS, But may feel
                                                        behave as both or neither         May do permanent changes    other gender still to some
                                                                                                   Hrt or cosmetic surgeries        degree, from great to just a
                                                                                                     or remove certain traits          little.
                                                                                                       but not srs usually

This is how I sort of think about  it. Not sure how credible it is, but its just a spectrum of how I think about it. I feel about 75 to 80 % but dont want srs, though I want some changes to fit my gender mix that is me. Androgynes near 50% I havent seen want any physical changes.

So I can see a 80% or so, or more gender getting transition, but still feeling somewhat the gender of the birth sex. Maybe 20% or less of that gender.

Transition to what?
To be honest there are quite a androgynes who feel no need to transition.  It is more of a self awareness then there is a need to transition.  It is the realization of what we always were, an explanation of why we never fit in. 

I will be honest, even though I was always male by sex, I will always be an androgyne by gender.  Being an androgyne is a matter of gender (which is in the heart and head, not between the legs), not sex.  Being androgyne does not require altering my body. 

I personally don't know why I always felt androgynous and people always identified me that way.  I do not know why I cannot build muscle mass.  The reason why I am an androgyne may be hormonal, it may not be, but it is also how I feel inside.  But at the same time, while I thought about some medical steps, I never felt it was necessary to take them.  Does being a enuch make me more androgynous, probably not, as I already know how I feel inside. 

Several androgynes never go towards hrt or surgery, nor think it is necessary.  In fact I am not going to put precentages on it at all. Some of us discover this identity through therapy, others just find it through self discovery. 

The thing is the level of transition with a person who is an androgyne, cannot be measured through surgery or hormones or looks, it is measured through self awareness.  Being an androgyne is a state of mind, a state of acceptance, of oneself.  It is finding yourself inbetween or outside of the gender binary.  It is the realization that sex matters very little in the grand scheme of things and that being a human being has nothing to do with being a man or woman. 

For some people to accept themselves that may take certian medical steps to accept oneself, but for some androgynes (not all) we are happy with who we are, largely because we have always been androgynes.  What is there to transition too, when we are already at the state of self awareness and self confidence.

For me, the thought of being a mix of both sexes is the most natural state of being. I have a hard time accepting the fact that their are people so far on each end of the spectrum!! I am female and while I completely identify as such, with no desire whatsoever to change my physicality, I do not identify with heterosexual females. That is not just because I am mostly gay/bisexual, but because we are very different beasts. I do not think, act or respond like most typical women. It has always seemed to me that people show what they think society expects.---and I have never felt the two gender system was natural.   Carol

um, when people say "typical" female or male, I don't quite get it. I mean, I get it in a stereotype sense, but other than that, everyone's so different, does this "typical" exist outside of such stereotypes? I could just be paying lip-service to political correct idealogy here, as I've been wrestling with that idea and feeling a bit hypocritical because now I've been getting those stupid stereotypes bound up in my head trying to validate myself as whatever (though I suppose its not safe to not examine such thoughts), but I don't know. Other people sometimes surprise me now, and I'm a bit shocked that I'd be surprised by such things as I'm not sure I would've been years ago.

Quote from: Furanshisu on September 17, 2006, 12:12:02 PM
um, when people say "typical" female or male, ... does this "typical" exist outside of such stereotypes?

Actually it does, in the minds and expectations of most of the population anywhere, sad but true. That is why we are in the "pickle" that we are.
  Reality is first manifested in the mind, then given life with our actions.
  Our existance of all of us TG ( and all its shades) also proves that there are other realities 
sheial18

Carol - I agree with you about not feeling like I fit into the 2 gender spectrum. And feeling really good about the mix of genders.

Furanshisu - To myself, even feeling that I have a mixture of male and female 'ness most of my feelings and behaviors I think I can divide into male or female. There are a few things that fit into both, but honestly, not too many. It has become quite obvious to me that in my 34 years here on the earth, mainly since my teenage years, that there is such a divide. Though I am proud of the ones that try to mix the two, and feel natural and admit in being made of both elements to whatever degree.

shiela18 -  yes I agree with you in that the existence of Transgender proves that there are other realities, other ways, then was once perceived.

Seldom - yes most androgynes do not have any transitions. Thats pretty widespread known. Its also known that some do. But being androgyne has no relation to physical sex. But rather how you feel that your gender is. Even someone that never dresses androgynous, but has a androgynous mentality could be androgyne if they accept both a gender mix or something other than the two gender poles.

Having said that, someone could switch physical sexes, yet still feel androgynous gender. For whatever reason.

I feel comfortable in knowing that I'm somewhere in between on the gender continuum, neither male nor female. I have no need to transition physically, however I often wish that the world was safer place to express my androgyny openly in choices of clothing, presentation, etc.

zythyra

^^^
Agreed Zythyra

I'm sure alot of us would wish the world was a more gender accepting place...

Perhaps it is coming...

*Wishful*

And your continuum is very interesting Kendra, I like it!

No transitions for me here... although I probably wish I was biologically on the other side of the spectrum, its no big deal than I'm on the male side...

I'd probably be a very boyish girl anyway...

-Nessa

Quote from: Kendra on September 23, 2006, 07:44:48 PM

Seldom - yes most androgynes do not have any transitions. Thats pretty widespread known. Its also known that some do. But being androgyne has no relation to physical sex. But rather how you feel that your gender is. Even someone that never dresses androgynous, but has a androgynous mentality could be androgyne if they accept both a gender mix or something other than the two gender poles.

Having said that, someone could switch physical sexes, yet still feel androgynous gender. For whatever reason. 

kendra:
thanks    really good post

  I never gave any serious consideration to being Androgynous other than the confused and bedazled 'what am I, Am I this and that blah blah'

   This point you made Kendra has merits especially for those of us who for whatever reasons have been waiting long to SRS and living Androgynously has been a fact  kwel 
  Perhaps nothing would change except the important point of relating to others growth and pains 
stay beatiful baby, sheila18
sheila18