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Q? FTM social role with bio males

Started by veronica06, September 21, 2006, 10:24:23 PM

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Dennis

Mine's a Shadow Ace 750, totally customized to look like a 50's cruiser. I love it, but I think the next bike will be over 1000 cc's. I keep getting bigger every time I get a bike. Started on a 185, then a 300, then a 400, then a 450, then a 650, now a 750. All were Suzukis until this one, my first Honda.

Yeah, I was pretty grateful that my flat wasn't on the front tire. Crossing my fingers never to have that one happen. Closest call I've had was a huge pickup truck trying to change lanes into me at 130 km/h. Luckily the bike still had enough to twist the throttle and move ahead of him, but a faster response would've been a little less stressful.

Dennis
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Bob

I'm going to start a thred in general , so I don't high jack this thred from Veronica ! heheheh
c ya there Dennis
Bob.....
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Kismet

I'm tiny.
And I really mean, tiny. I'm 5'4" weighing in at a little under 105lbs. I'm slender, and definitely a lot shorter than just about any other male in my age group. I relate to guys just fine -- After all, I'm "one of them." As for body gestures, the way I carry myself... The best way I can describe it is I move like a gay male, because that's what I am. Some of my gestures are arguably more 'refined' than a typical male, but I've been described by my mate as 'boyishly graceful.'

I concentrate on walking from the knees, not from the hips like a female. This allows for a looser, slightly more pronounced gait. The best way I can describe it is 'loosely drawn.' I'm like a cartoon character in some senses, long swishing movements.
I don't know. I'm just me.
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veronica06

Do you really think things are going to be that different for a MtF?
When you go to the Doctor and you're asked when your last cycle was?
------------------

usually? by the time the doc asks ya to open and say ahhhhhhhh...he'll notice the hangie down thingie,...as will smith calls it......and know it is male.
bio females do not have one
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Bob

Your missin the point Veronica !
its no diferent from the guys chit chat than the girls chit chat except the subject matter.... your worrying too much ! <grin>
for a FTM getting cought in a chat about their periods and all or giveing birth would be very flustrating as Milissa mentioned earlier on another thred, you don't want to lie to them but then not to lie would be giveing yourself away as a TS, which is almost alwayse best to keep hidden.... how you handle it is change the subject or out and out lie to them...or do nether and give yourself away.... so it is HARD...
... I think telling them you had a hystorectemy (sp) at an early age wouldn't be too far from the truth as the results are almost the same !
... but if you have Kids of your own and talk about them then that complicates the matter ! ...

I seriously don't think Not lieing in a siduation like this is so very important... after all its not important information ,,, just chit-chat to be polite in most cases...
I try to be truthfull at all times no matter what, even in the smallest detail... but to do that about your past if your a TS could do more harm than good.....
... in short it depends on the siduation !
wing it ! HAHAHAHHA!

Bob......

Posted on: September 24, 2006, 02:33:09 AM
Draeden...
being small Nesisates being cautious in a big world
I have met realy small guys before  not dwarfs but just small people
and one little guy I knew was the scrappyest thing you ever met...
he'ed take on anyone just because they thought he was small....
thats how i met him...  I made the remark Hay shorty is that place closed ? .... he walked over to me and said what did you call me ? i said Shorty , but i ment no offence by it ! he said Oh... well no their closed... I said oh rats... I gott'a find some spark plugs he said you might try grand auto ... I said Hay , I didn't mean to make you mad (in other words)  did I ? he said Well Yah ! I hate being called short ! I won't put up with it , I said well I'm terrably sorry I had no idea.
we chatted for a bout 30 minutes because I didn't want him to feel ill of me as he seamed like a nice guy !  i mentioned motorcycles and all was forgiven and we started talking bikes and I barely got away after that !  HAHAHAHHA
over the years I ran into him many times and the last time was in the bike shop I said HAY YOU! ... he turned arround and I grabbed his hand and shook it .. and we had a good laugh ! he said he'ed been in many fights because of Small or short remarks ! I said Why ? people don't mean anything by it ? you know that , he said yah I'm beginning to get that idea ! I said I do that sort of thing all the time it means no harm he said yah I gott'a be more forgiveing  I said don't we all ??? and on it went...
  I have learned that size means nothing... but if your realy small and not strong too, then you need self defence classes ! to protect yourself ...
   
My 2 coppers !
Bob.......

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Buffy

I have some great chats with my girlfriends...

We talk about anything, agree nothing, find no solutions, re-enforce our experiences, empathise and enjoy the (many) conversations that go on.

If we want facts, identified solutions, no sympathy and a quick turn around... we ask one of my friends Husbands, who are more than willing to offer any solutions, without discussion.

Women bond through conversation, it re-enforces the link and importance of friendship and we can spend ages describing the colour and design of a dress or jewellery.... men can normally remember how much they paid for it and how long she took choosing it!

Man and women communicate very differently.... don't forget verbal communication is only about 40% of the total package, facial, hand, posture i.e non verbal , all say a lot about people.

Fluttering your eyelids, stroking your hair, pouting your lips, playing with ear rings  normally gets a guys attention.....whereas it is normally when the guy gets his credit card out that a woman gets excited!!!

Learn to master the non-verbal side as well as the talking.

Becky

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veronica06

oh dear me...
I admit..of my own free will...I am not now nor have I ever been..a social butterfly. so my social skills are that of a barbarian...
but I suppose, it doesn't matter, in the end. I do not intend on attending any coffee circles, for gossip.

whenever-----I get to make the change,...and get to live full time female..I will more than likely live like I do now...pretty much hole'd up here in the house....'
and maybe, if I am ever forced to actually talk to other females..I guess I can merely use idle chat and avoid anything in depth.
yeah. I do get my OCD going and I do worry too much about details.
while you are looking at the painting..I am using a microscope on the signature.

moving right along here.....thank you everyone that has had patience with me.
and for those that have snubbed me......pfffffffffftttttttttt

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taylor

Veronica,

1. You are telling me and others that we are not bio males, so please tell me exactly how bio male is defined! You are assuming that we all believe in biological determination, and let me say strait up, many of us see it for the flaws that it has. But go ahead and give it a good shot if you want, and I will respond in kind with evidence ( scientific evidence ) that will dismiss your claims.

2. I have two adams apples, one from T and one from puberty. So does this make me twice the man? lol
One is by the way not as dominant and noticeable.

3. I am 5'10  175 pds, 9.5 shoe, 34 waist, 30 inseam, etc. just the average build of a average guy. My hands are the same size as my brothers, actually exactly the same size, wierd huh?

4. Not only can I hang out at a gas station and talk with the guys, I can walk the streets of LA, Oakland, Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, Chicago and DC, Baltimore, Phili, etc. and have.  I have lived them, not always by choice.  I have been places that most white guys don't have the balls to go, because I know how to get along with people from every back ground, ethnicity, race, socio eco class etc. It does not matter where you put me, I am just the same as any other guy that has a good head on his shoulders.  What's dragging in my pants has nothing to do with how I am defined as a male. I am equal to you and any other guy in this crazy world. I am going to assume here that you cross dress, and I am also going to assume that you don't feel like that makes you less of a man?  Or do you? I honestly would not think so.

So the way I see it is that you don't realize the true nature of what a F2M is?  Let me spell it out okay...
MALE!

5. And no being a redkneck does not make them one up on peging guys. I live in redkneck country bro. I have attended college, lived in dorms, camp, hike, fish, drink, party, etc. mountain bike with my male friends, and no one not once has ever had a clue of my medical history in all these years no matter where I lived through out the US. And it is just that a medical history. I have had construction jobs, layed cables, insulation etc. under houses with other guys and never once, been asked if I am different.

I am not some girl that has a identity crisis, I am a man that was mis labeled by idiots that want to force things to be fixed into place that are just simply not ment to be fixed into a firm place for the comfort of the twisted world we live in.

The worst part of the whole situation for TS people that are not defined IS is that they are made to feel like they are suffering from a "condition" and in most cases the "condition" is a social condition not a mental illness, or identity crisis!  When the world gets that strait, then a lot of progress will hav been made.
Hope you don't mind my laying on the line my thoughts to what you have said, but felt like saying what I had to say.

Peace,
Taylor


Posted on: September 26, 2006, 03:25:21 PM
Veronica,

Now let me see, I once had a ovarie, and I still have a testicle, and partial prostrate, and a dead uterus,  umm a single adams apple, and lets see, what exactly does this tell you?  I could have had the uterus removed, but I could not think of a good reason to let them tare through my stomach muscles to do so.  What this should tell the average person with a lick of sense is that there is a reason that deterimination of a persons sex is not as simple as you would so narrowly like to assume it to be. And it is not me saying this, it is all of scientific research in modern times saying so, umm going back to the 1700's and current.

Iis there a particular reason that a tennis player without a penis but with male chromosomes can be denied their right ( raised female all her life) to participate in the womens US games?? Gee, could it be for the confusion on defining male and female?? Would ya think??

If we did things your way, define a penis please, because according to the medical standards, a penis must be past 2cm and clit is under 1.5 cm. Now wait...what happens if you are between 2cm and 1.5 like say 1.75cm?? Then what the heck do ya do?  And what if a fully internal functioning female is born with a 2cm clit, should they really butcher her?  And what if a boy is born with a penis that is 1.8 and what do they do with his organs and structure?  And what about the boy that has the functioning testicles and his penis is 1.5, so they chop it off and casterate him, build a hole, because you know...they are going to make him a girl! Yea right!

So no, a doc cannot simply assume by the existence or lack thereof what someones sex is, Smith got it wrong, but then it was  just a joke in a movie afterall.

Peace,
Taylor
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Bob

Hummm....

Ok Taylor Good point...as usual !
I have alwayse thought the plumbing in the house defines the house !
I realise that is a "Ridiciously simple" outlook form a male prespective... but
a solid enough one to make certain asumptions, i.e. if you have the outie your a male , an innie your a female.... this is what the general public goes by as well
and also what most of the confusion of TS is in a nut shell.
...
Ok if we understand that the Mind determands the sex... inspite of the body
then you can have a TS siduation... if it was the body that determends the sex then that wouldn't be possable except for people blessed with both kinds of plumbing and that is excedingly rare. there for the number of TS individials would be much much lower.
....
Odd, but i have never looked at the Atoms apple when I look at females...
maybe because I have never seen a female with one ... i dunno, to be quite honnest I am looking at the brests ,waste and hips ...in that order.
and it tickels me to see some Ranch girl come into the resturant while we are having dinner that is chunky, big brested, almost no waste and larg hips and legs and arms that rivle my own....because I know that gal is twice as strong as I am
the round clinderical arms with only a small defination of a bicep are emencly strong... I know, I was raised with an older sister that looked just like that.
and I saw her one handily pick up a 200 pound guy and slam him against the lockers at school one time.... as his feet were dangleing the expression on his face was priceless..... he never pestered her again !.
Looks are decieveing...
....
Bob....
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veronica06

Veronica,

1. You are telling me and others that we are not bio males, so please tell me exactly how bio male is defined!
===========
bio  male is just that--dna says male.
and I ain't talking about those born in between..with both sexes.
normal birth is female or male.
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Lori

Quote from: veronica06 on September 24, 2006, 12:35:59 AM
by the time the doc asks ya to open and say ahhhhhhhh...he'll notice the hangie down thingie,...as will smith calls it......and know it is male.
bio females do not have one


Are you talking about the uvula? What hangie down thingie are you talking about? If it is the Uvula, everybody has one unless they have some "condition" that creates a reason to not have it.
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taylor

Bob,

In the book I go into some real detail of re mapping the TS and even the IS person.  First off let me break this down if I can briefly in here ....  we all know that we come from both Male and Female therefore we are ALL intersexed by our very nature. I don't care what two things you mix, when you mix the outcome is a bit of both. ( you of course already know this )  The degree of that can determine the set of variables one lives.  A person that we call IS such as myself, is just a person with a set of variables that can be seen physically observed  (internally or externally)  Now our assumptions that we can observe all sex determining factors is a heck of an assumption. Science is not that advanced even still today.

It was just a few years ago that we realized that what has been considered the "Default switch" for determing what track a fetus takes for creating the gonads that under "average norms" determines what gential structure is formed is not a "default switch" after all.  It in fact moves in both directions, it has been forever firmly believed that it only switched in one direction and that being "Female" was by default!  Totally disproven in 1999.

I wish I could think of where I got this next bit of info, all I recall is that it was in a college course so my source would be impossible to find....  but lets look at DNA in a very interesting way.

If you think of how insanely HUGE the entire DNA combinational chains etc. are, then when I tell you that the diference between the DNA of a bananna and a human is 1% of total DNA!!! Now look at the extreme difference between a human and a bannana and by doing so think of how vasly large the whole DNA spec is!  So it is my stand that it is much better to realize that we have not even come close to understanding how sex identity is formulated. 

So I do not reduce being TS to a brain that says one thing and a body that says another. And I do not see it as a condition of illness for a good many of TS people, notice I did not say all. Mental illness can do some things that can have affects etc.

I am a firm believer that as people come to accept their own differences they are more capable of accepting others. Until we realize that we are ALL linked to many mysteries of natural creation, then we must continue to trudge through. Further research absolutely needs to be done.


Well anyway just thought I would share this with ya!

Peace,

Taylor

Posted on: September 27, 2006, 10:48:59 AM
Veronica,

You are just too comical!  If only life was as simple as you would like to reduce it, well I guess if it were you would not be in here, would you???

Peace

Taylor
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veronica06

Veronica,

You are just too comical!  If only life was as simple as you would like to reduce it, well I guess if it were you would not be in here, would you???

Peace

Taylor
=============
what in holy hell are you talking about?
I..KEEP my life simple.
I stay home and mind my own business.............
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Mario

Veronica,
       Taylor is refering to not only medical issues, but basic transgendered ones as well. He is quite the authority on these issues. He has recently had a book pulished called :All Points in Between" it is about birth sex and gender. I happen to have a copy of it, and even I am learning more with every turn of a page. I think you should see about getting a copy for yourself.


                                                 Marco
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veronica06

Veronica,
       Taylor is refering to not only medical issues, but basic transgendered ones as well. He is quite the authority on these issues. He has recently had a book pulished called :All Points in Between" it is about birth sex and gender. I happen to have a copy of it, and even I am learning more with every turn of a page. I think you should see about getting a copy for yourself.


                                                 Marco
=======================================

got news for ya........I am not in anyone's fancy smancy text book..and I resent anyone trying to shove things down my throat.
no one...is an authority about MY life..k?
and where I see it..books are only written for 2 reasons...
1 ==for someone to feel superior over others and rub it in their face
2==to act like they know it all...and dont have all the answers to the world.

I don't buy books of non fiction
if I read..I read to be entertained...not be ticked off by some snob that feels they know everything.
I only pick up scifi fantasy non fiction.
it's MY life....I make the rules.......no one knows about what I feel or why..and when I explain it --I am told I am wrong and dont know what I am talking about...

now whatever it is supposed to be in this here book...may be fine for y'all........
where I see it...the book of life has all pages of mirrors.
all the answers of life are in yourself.
so "I" spend time when I shave my beard...seeing if I like what I see or if I can live with it for now.
I try to deal with it.

I just dont like where I've been and I dont like people acting like I am trash because of it.

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Kate

Quote from: veronica06 on September 27, 2006, 01:11:04 PM
all the answers of life are in yourself.

Very, very true...

But oftentimes the compassion and insights of others can help reveal those answers... if we're brave enough to let them.
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taylor

Veronica,

There is actually four other reasons that people write books.

# 3   Educate
# 4   Inform
# 5   Challenge and/or correct others historical work for the sake of advancement
# 6  Allow others information so that they can think independantly

And yes all your answers are inside, getting to them,, well that is another issue.

Peace,

Taylor
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Andrew

Taylor, where do I find this book? I'd like to read it--books about the transsexual experience written by FTMs are hard to come by. (I know of only two so far: "Just Add Hormones" by Matt Kailey and one that my former therapist is writing--I'm in it!) Can I get your book on Amazon?
Lock up yer daughters.
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Melissa

I see your website Taylor, but there is no link for purchasing the book as far as I can tell.

Melissa
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Mario

That link is gone. You can order it through Barnes & Noble. All I know is I got Taylor's last copy he had. Excellent. ;)

                                      Marco
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