I have been having consistent problems lately with people not respecting my privacy and the bulk of this has to do directly or indirectly with me being trans. I don't know what people's problems are but I feel like I'm some celebrity or something where I can't do anything without people constantly up in it where they don't belong. It is getting to the point where I am really losing my temper with people.

I'll start with home. I live by myself but in an apartment building. I recently moved to a new complex and luckily have not had issues so far. There is one friendly neighbor who will wave and say "Hi. How are you" when passing but that is it. I have not transitioned yet and this neighbor has seen me presenting as "male" on some occasions and female on others. Even when I present as "male" I still have an androgynous appearance. I hope the same problems here don't start as they did with my last apartment. In my last apartment, people were constantly "hanging around" and watching me every time I would enter or leave my apartment. They would do this to other people as well. The problem was as time went on, I started getting questions from neighbors. One neighbor asked me how my girlfriend was, what her name was, etc. who apparently was fooled by my gender variant presentations. Another neighbor was convinced I had a sister living there and again was fooled. Another neighbor figured it out and would start whistling when I would leave as female and even followed me as I went to the car.

I'm sorry but this better not happen at my new complex. "Good fences make good neighbors." Friendly neighbors are those who simply nod or say "Hi" as they are passing. They don't need to know about my private life. If they are honestly curious about me being trans or cross-dressing, they can act mature about it, and come up and in a nice way ask. Even if they are fooled by the varied presentations, nobody has any business asking who some girl is who is at my apartment. Maybe I'm sounding uptight but once you break the privacy barrier, it becomes a snowball. What starts out as neighbors "being friendly" turns into "casual conversation" which eventually leads to endless prying and gossiping.

Next you have work. I never really came out to people until I realized how much I had been seen outside of work. Someone saw me at Gay Pride and asked me about it. Then I start running into multiple people at multiple different nightclubs while I'm presenting female. Apparently, simply telling people my female name and that I present part-time as female isn't enough. I am constantly being asked when I'm going to transition, if I'm going to transition, how far I'm going to take it. People are assuming sexual orientation, others are asking about it, people want to know what type of men/women I'm interested in. They want to know every detail of my weekend down to if I went out as a girl to which club to what I wore at the club and who I saw there. While I am somewhat open about some things, I do not hesitate to inform them when lines have been crossed. When I tell these co-workers "that's private" they get silly and gossipy. If a few people I tell a certain thing to that is not meant for another group of people, that group will be straining to hear. It gets to the point where I can't read a book at my desk on break without them trying to find out what I'm reading, if I eat lunch they want to know what I'm eating and why, and when I'm on the internet on break, they are straining to see what I'm looking at. Several of them have even gone so far as to ask why I carry my bag around everywhere and what I have in it. If these people think that all of this on a daily and even hourly basis is "simply making conversation" they are seriously screwed up.

Last but not least, you have public places such as restaurants. My mother taught me when I was a child that it is rude to stare. You don't endlessly stare at people in public places. Interrupting people's conversations, hijacking them, and invading their space are also extremely bad manners. There are restaurants I regularly go to that are trans-friendly. I am a familiar face in some of these. Just because I eat in the same restaurant as regularly as someone else doesn't give them a right to assume inclusion in my social circle. I've realized that the so-called "respect" people say they have for trans people is actually not respect. If they respected me, they would treat me as a woman, not someone special or different. Some of the stuff I encounter is so extreme I've had to lose my temper in restaurants by raising my voice to even having managers throw such people out.

One example is I will be having a fairly intelligent conversation with friends at the table and every time I'm the one saying something, the man at the nearest table abruptly and aggressively turns around and looks. I don't like creating a scene but I finally had to ask him if he needed something or what was going on. Sometimes I have to rudely stare back to get them to stop. In one case a man walks right over to the table and just plops down in the seat next to me babbling about how much he understands "trans issues." He thinks he is being nice but starts asking personal questions not to mention he was not invited to sit at our table let alone hijack the conversation. I had to literally explain to him that while I appreciate his friendliness, this is a private table with private conversation among private friends and that he needs to find another table to sit at. Then the guy can't understand why I'm being "snobbish."

Most recently, I had an incident where some flamboyant gay guy who again thinks he respects trans people decides to start commenting on my personal appearance saying my shoes are good but my dress could be better, etc. I told him that I didn't ask for his opinion. He then later acts "all nice" and puts his hands on my waist to adjust my blouse. I then reported it to the manager as I was leaving. The man had the nerve to follow me out to the car and ask me why I was upset with him, etc. This turned into me yelling at him and ordering him to step away from my car and leave me alone. Would this man walk up to a genetic girl in a public place and adjust her blouse? Probably not unless he wanted to get hit in the face by her or her boyfriend.

Sorry for the rant but I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here. I'm not an unfriendly person and consider myself to be sociable. I just don't understand why so many people don't respect basic boundaries. You don't go around touching people, you don't invite yourself automatically to other people's conversations, and you don't probe into people's private business. People everywhere seem to act like they are your best friend when you don't know them any more than a homeless person at the bus stop. Just because I share an apartment building with someone, work in the same office, or eat in the same restaurant does not grant them automatic inclusion into my life.

I'm afraid that sooner or later I'm going to start losing my temper to the point where I get thrown out of a place or it ends up in a fight where the cops are called. What the hell is the matter with people? Why is the simple right to be left alone so difficult? When I don't put up with it, people think I'm the one who is rude, has issues, is snobbish, etc.

Neighbors will be neighbors.  Most are nosy enough to find out who the new person is.  I think it is more looking out for the ones that are a little on the shady side.  And of course that causes rumors to spread like wildfire.  I am lucky in that I live in an RV Park, so people come and go.  But Full-time RVers have a way of just being overly friendly.  I think it is the fact that people come and go so often.

But in my park everyone has just accepted me as the "That tall gal in the Adirondack".  In fact I have been flirted with by several guys here in the park.

As for the guy that understands Trans issues.  I think he is ether closeted or an Admirer.

The next time someone stares at you in a restaurant, try one of two things.  Ether wink or smile at them.  They usually will realize that they were staring and quit.  At least that has been my results.  If someone asks a question you do not wish to answer, just say "Noneya".  I think you will know what I mean, 

If it gets be too much at a restaurant or club, ask for the manager or bouncer and complain.  Especially works well if you are a regular.

To add to Janet's comments, we all need to understand that we are breaking new ground here.

We, each of us, have a right, nay, an obligation, to live our lives according to our conscience and wishes.

Just as every group in society tends to have a genarally recognised character. I see a crowd of football supporters, (real football, not the version where the ball never touches the foot!!  ) and it's the custom to ask the score. I'm not interested in sport. I wouldn't talk to many or any of them in any other setting, but this has become a way of bascially saying, 'OK, you've been to the game, you're making a lot of noise. Glad you had a good time. I'm cool with it. Hope you all go home and don't have any problems'.

Your neighbours are wondering how to take you. Do they treat your femal persona as another person, your sister, your girlfriend?

The gay guy is part of what has become the gay scene. Extravert, touchy. He's trying to welcome you to that. I have to agree with you. I wouldn't want to be part of that scene.

I hope you understand that I am very sympathetic. But you need to understand that these people are trying to work out how they should respond to you.

It's no use at all demanding a specific response unless you can make it clear what that specific response should be.

Losing your temper tlike that just send out a message that you are agressive, perhaps a bit crazy.

You want to just be a normal part of society. Another woman, just going about her business. But you need to send out the signals to others.

Otherwise, others are going to begin seeing you, and possibly all TGs as a potential problem.

We are not a problem.

In my crowded country, I gave up privacy stuffs.

At first, I thought nobody knew me in the street or beach. Later, however, some people at my work place told me that they saw me.

Let me say just about train station. Even at the train station in Seoul, which is located 500 km from my home town, I should keep in mind that somebody knows me, but anyway I sometimes wear skirts and heels, assuming that nobody there knows me. Oh. A good thing is that some women grasp my hands to ask for direction. At first I was surprised that strange people can suddenly grasp my hands without asking my permission. I wondered whether it might be OK for woman-to-woman.

Neighbours? I already gave up. I do not care what they say or how they respond. I guess they no longer gossip about me. It took about 3 years 

Barbie~~

I'm transitioning in a small town, so I have never had any hope of doing this without at least half the town knowing about it.  If you live where people know about each other, I don't know that it is possible for you to show up male sometimes and female other times without people noticing and, if it is their nature, curious.

For me, I just had to relax into my situation and go with it.  And I think for me it was good to do this very publicly.  As always, YMMV.

Good luck Britney, however you decide to proceed.

- Kate

Part of the problem may be culture. I've been in the New England states a number of times and always got the impression people were stricter with boundaries. I'm sure it also varies from country to country. Since a lot of these privacy invasions also happen when I'm in "boy mode" I get the impression that is just a problem with people in general. It primarily stems from "empty heads." When I come across people who live sophisticated lives who have at least some college education, regularly read books, have intelligent conversations, and keep their lives busy with hobbies, they simply have no interest in worrying about other people. It ususally stems from people who I get the impression have nothing going on. They probably don't work and are living off of government or inheritance and their free time is dominated by TV. Apparently, I'm the most interesting thing that has come along for such people.

I'm sure I'll handle it the best I can but it can be difficult. The biggest problem these people seem to have is basic manners. It is not necessarily what someone says but how they say it. Instead of a neighbor stating, "Where are you going?" when they don't even know me, they could phrase it like, "Excuse me. If you don't mind my asking, where are you headed to?" Both say the same thing but the former is pushy while the latter is polite. As some people say when giving a speech, it isn't necessarily so important what is being said but how it is delivered.

I have to agree with one comment here about the "gay scene." So many gay people I've come across believe that they automatically have the right to touch you, hug you, and even kiss you. I think touching, hugging, and kissing are great as well but only in appropriate places with people you know. This "let's be friends with everyone" mentality is one of those great social ideals but in reality it doesn't work. Why would anyone want to be friends with everyone?

Thanks for your comments and I'll update you if anything else comes up.

It sounds like you have a good handle on this, but here's another thought:

I just got back from driving cross-country.  When I would stop at some Podunk gas station to pick up a soda to sip on, I would get a lot of odd looks.  At first I thought it was because I wasn't buttoned up properly, but then I realized I would get these looks when I used to make these trips as a male.

I was a curiosity – an anomaly.  If you are at all unusual, you are likely to get more attention than if you a) look like everyone else and b) are local and they've seen you a dozen times before.

And I agree about the boundaries.  It does seem to be a regional thing.  I'm happy in the American west where people are friendly and a bit nosey and figure how you lead your life is up to you.

- Kate

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on January 27, 2010, 07:04:28 AM

when i lived in korea i oftentimes saw women holding hands or walking arm in arm.  its very normal and accepted.  my spouse is from korea and returned there when i transitioned.  i miss her very much.

Yes. It is true that a womsn can holding hands with anothe womsn. It is symbolic for our family, I mean all of the Koreans.

They are so much interested in me, because they think I am a kind of family memeber to them. It is very natural that neighbors are so much interested in ourselves, because they think we belong to it, I mean it can be a kind of boundary, or a kind of bond. In that case, never be nervous or upset about it. They are ready to accept and understand you.

Just smile and listen what they are saying. That's it all about it.

Barbie~~

It's great that people are so accepting and understanding but I always question the motivations. However, acceptance and inclusion are two different things. Tens of millions of people for instance accept a certain celebrity. However, there is no way that celebrity is going to allow them into his or her life with very extreme exceptions. I understand that everyone wants to make friends but there are proper and improper ways of doing it. You have to set boundaries and they will be different for different people. There are those who are to be acquaintances, others who are "buddies," others who are solid friends, and then a significant other. Just because I smile and say "Hi" to an acquaintance in a public place should not cause them to assume they are anything but that. Part of this problem is likely cultural as well. I have seen it time and time again where a woman at a nightclub dares to smile at a man and the man automatically assumes he is going to take her home with him. If people wonder why some people have to be a bit coarse and rude when dealing with the public it probably is due to simple self-preservation. If you allow everybody to take unlimited liberties with your time and space, they will ruin your reputation, cause unnecessary drama, and essentially take over your life.

Some girl one time told me she used to sit by herself on an empty park bench reading because it was quiet and peaceful. She had to stop doing it because men would simply not leave her alone. She would lose her temper at them. They would assume that the mere fact that she was there meant that she was automatically interested in meeting them. Even though she refused to make eye contact, look up, or even acknowledge their presence, they would continue to abruptly interrupt her peace and quiet. If they didn't outright say "excuse me" they would plop down next to her uninvited and try to swap numbers. This must again be a cultural thing, I don't know. If it isn't, it is a stupidity thing because people should be intelligent enough to pick up certain obvious hints and cues. As much as I hate to do it, I am going to start being tougher with people in general. As much as I don't want to be rude, sometimes that is the only language these people understand.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 28, 2010, 12:49:30 AM
It's great that people are so accepting and understanding but I always question the motivations. However, acceptance and inclusion are two different things. Tens of millions of people for instance accept a certain celebrity. However, there is no way that celebrity is going to allow them into his or her life with very extreme exceptions. I understand that everyone wants to make friends but there are proper and improper ways of doing it.

Think you've hit the point here.

I've met a few celebrities. In every case they make the same point, that everyone seems to expect them to be their persona all the time.

As an example, I refer to Old People's Music for a moment.

The Beatles built their act on being nice boys who could be your brothers or sons.

McCartney, some years later, complained that, in the last few years of the act, many people seemed to think he was their property. People would break into his house and just make themselves at home.

When he moved to the remote Highlands of Scotland, he once chased a group of people from his land with a gun. They were just friendly locals, as Highland people are, but he just couldn't handle that.

The point is, that, much like celebrities, you have made yourself noticeable.

On a slightly different aspect, when mass immigration began in England, huge numbers of Black people came from the West Indies. There were a small minority who acted aggressively toward them, But the truth is that, most people in England are not racist and don't resent immigrants.

But when decent English people tried to approach some Black people, the response was defencive, even hostile.

People see you and generally, are not hostile. They genuinely want to say to you that they are not hostile. They want to express their admiration to you, that you are taking these steps to be yourself.

Transition is a major change, by any measure. These people are making an, albeit clumsy, effort to express their admiration and respect for your strength of character.

You need to learn a new act. A more respectful way of responding.

Man touches your waist and says Hi ducky. You respond with a small smile, I'm fine but don't touch.

Man turns around and looks at you. Small smile, Morning, Turn away.

Someone walks up to you in the street asking how you are. Small smile, I'm very well thank you and keep walking.

My old friends, whether they are women or men, touch my body without asking my permission. That's fine for me and I just try to have a good time.

When drinking together, some of my colleagues politely ask me whether it is OK to touch my body. Depending on mood, I say Yes or No.

When drunken, some girls take off my pants to see my pen*s. Usually they stop at just seeing my underwear and giggle.

There are many people who show interest on me. Some are very polite and careful, but others can be naive like children. Usually their interest on me is positive one. When I go to a restaurant second time, the owner and employees there usually think I visited there several times and greet me loudly. It is not bad as I can easily become a valuable customer to them just by visiting twice.

A perplexing moment is when a strange person smile and greet me in the street, but I can not remember who he or she is. They remember me, but I do not. This happens again and again, but I usually do not ask who he/she is. Just assuming that I know them any way.

Barbie~~

Quote from: K8 on January 26, 2010, 06:21:53 PM
I'm transitioning in a small town, so I have never had any hope of doing this without at least half the town knowing about it.  If you live where people know about each other, I don't know that it is possible for you to show up male sometimes and female other times without people noticing and, if it is their nature, curious.

For me, I just had to relax into my situation and go with it.  And I think for me it was good to do this very publicly.  As always, YMMV.

Good luck Britney, however you decide to proceed.

- Kate

Like all the small town-gals and people who feel like Britney I empathize.

I live in a village or a small community. Very small. I'm at a stage in my life where I'm just saying "screw it!" I'm getting my financial aid disbursement next week (been waiting for what seems like an eternity!) and am going to take my long straight hair and get it styled. I'm going to walk in and ask for the most feminine style they can give me!

I've been trying to live very discreetly while in my parents home. My Dad had worked (recently retired) at the local school and I didn't want my appearance to create some issues with him. Small town life is a trip. Now after the hair I'm going to get some "leaning towards feminine" clothing. I want to sorta ease into where when I dress feminine it isn't a big deal!

My empathies to Britney. Living in this small community is very much the mirror of your situation. I don't see any other choice but to deal the best you can and keep your head up.

I guess I'm going to have to get used to it. It does sometimes feel like I'm a celebrity the way it is happening so frequently. Even though I haven't officially started transitioning, I have transitioned in ways that has given me an androgynous appearance. Even when I'm in "boy mode" I have long hair combed in a more feminine way and often have nail polish on. If people admire that is fine but it is a shame that more people haven't been brought up to have proper manners. You look at a person once and acknowledge their presence. Even I look at people as we all do. The difference is that you look once and look away, you don't constantly keep staring. If you are interested enough in a person to keep looking at them, you should say something to them in a positive way and an appropriate way. I have often wondered what it is like for real celebrities because they can't do anything or go anywhere without everything coming to a standstill. If Britney Spears goes in a grocery store, probably every person immediately stops in the store and starts whipping out cameras, etc. It must be a total nightmare. I can understand why wealthy and well-to-do people try to pay more to get away from it all. Productive people want to be left alone to live out their lives without interference.

Last spring a friend and his wife were stranded in a small farming town 90 miles from here.  They called me to come pick them up.  I drove over there immediately after church, not wanting to take the time to go home to change.  My friends were waiting in a "family restaurant" packed for Sunday dinner.  After driving 90 miles I had to pee, so I dashed through the restaurant to the ladies room.

I was wearing a slim black knee-length skirt, stockings, 3 inch heels, and red silk blouse.  I was way over-dressed for a farming community, Sunday or not.  I knew everyone was looking but ignored them all.

My friend last week reminded me of it.  He said one old guy just kept staring with his food halfway to his gaping mouth, frozen on the spot.

Make a splash, Britney.  Enjoy it.

- Kate

For the fun of it, I have thought of even creating a blog to report these incidents. At least it would get it off of my chest and it would be comical. At the same time perhaps it would get the message out there as well. I saw some blog somewhere where people were basically describing experiences with nosey neighbors. Granted, I'm not over-sensitive and can tolerate most of the staring but everyone has their limits. If people are staring for awhile I will likely tune it out or ignore it. However, if it is a malicious stare or it continues on for much longer I will eventually deal with it. This usually begins by me staring back to throwing my hands up in the air at them to eventually asking them what their problem is to the extreme of getting the manager and trying to get the person thrown out.

When out in public you are either taking care of tasks or trying to have a good time. When someone starts seriously interfering with it, I will have to do something about it. Hopefully these incidents are not common but I have some tactics I use and will get better at. For instance, when a person is so nosey that they not only stare but position themselves so that they can always be facing me or us, I will get the waiter/waitress and ask to be re-seated. Sadly there are a lot of boring hopeless people out there and for some reason they are so pathetic that they have to constantly be in your proximity. I notice all the time whether in a restaurant, theater, or other place with seating that the entire establishment will be mainly empty yet they have to sit immediately next to you. I and my company I'm with will abruptly get up and re-seat ourselves.

I'm sure such people think we are the rude ones by making it clear we are not associating with them but it is rude to not allow people proper space. There is no reason in an empty room with hundreds of available spots that a stranger needs to be directly next to you or deliberately facing you. I have even noticed in bookstores how I will be looking at a book and suddenly notice a person looking at me instead of finding their own book. The moment I place the book back on the shelf and walk away they are picking up the same book I just looked at. The process will repeat itself as well. The same with grocery stores. They aren't really interested in the product I'm looking at except that I'm looking at it. I could pick up another product and they would do the same thing. I wish I could videotape some of this stuff because it is pretty nuts.

Isn't it great to be celebrities? LOL.

Quote from: Britney_413 on January 31, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
When out in public you are either taking care of tasks or trying to have a good time. When someone starts seriously interfering with it, I will have to do something about it. Hopefully these incidents are not common but I have some tactics I use and will get better at.

People stare at me because I attract their eyes. Yes. At first I was upset. Once I shouted at a man like "why do you stare at me so long time?" He replied like "What does it matter I look at you for a while? It's a crime?" I gaped at him.

And in some cases, I could not do anything. Just leave there.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62614.0.html

Barbie~~

Quote from: K8 on January 26, 2010, 06:21:53 PM
I'm transitioning in a small town, so I have never had any hope of doing this without at least half the town knowing about it.  If you live where people know about each other, I don't know that it is possible for you to show up male sometimes and female other times without people noticing and, if it is their nature, curious.

For me, I just had to relax into my situation and go with it.  And I think for me it was good to do this very publicly.  As always, YMMV.

Good luck Britney, however you decide to proceed.

- Kate

I also transitioned very publicly, in a small town on a small island....heheh....Trapped like a rat.  I put on a dress, and that was that.  No either/or stuff.
It's a big enough place though, that now, after so long, almost no one knows, unless they are medical people, or knew me and still do.  I'm functional stealth.  The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker.....all the people I interact with that don't see my social security id, or medical insurance id.....they don't know.  Why didn't I change all my documents?, some ask.....Marcy and I are still happily married, and I don't want to FU slippery legal questions.  So, social security folks have me on record as male, medical insurance folks have me as male, but MVA and all my business id, ie, bank, cards, etc.....all have me as female, as I live my life.


Bev
(shhhh!)