It's the weirdest thing.  I've finally gotten to the point that I'm read as male pretty much all the time.  And yet, in the past week, I've had more instances of people who knew me before slipping up on names/pronouns than in the entire time since I came out at work and started living full time, about 4-5 months ago.  It seems as if, now that the novelty has worn off, people aren't as diligent about "humoring" me. 

[rant] Aaaargh!  One of these days some poor soul is going to slip and get hit by the full tidal wave of frustration that has been building up in me.  I'm getting to the point where I feel as if I really need to move away and start fresh with people who don't know, and therefore don't see me as "really" a girl.  Gah!  [/rant]

So how long did it take until people started really seeing you as you, and not as your birth gender pretending to be something else?

It ever happens I'll let you know.

I can say that at work that has happened only recently, but if you'll read back just about a month ago there was a pronoun slip-up in print at work that I wrote about.

Mostly at work everyone seems to accept me as male, pronoun slips are rare, new employees accept me as male and never question but I have no idea if the gossip mill has filled them in or not.  It's to the point that nobody ever brings it up unless *I* do (ie talking about my ex, who every one knows was male).  These past few weeks I'm beefing up my own filter for that reason.

But I've been out at work for 17 months, so it took a long time.  I still feel there are some who still see me as F even though they act as if they see me as M.  I don't know and try not to ask!

Jay

I'm inclined to think that that may never happen with people who knew you 'before.'  An enlightened few may, but it still seems that the prevailing opinion is still 'trans people are really <birth sex>.'  Even if they are kind enough to change pronouns for you, their actual perception may not have changed.

Of course, my experiences do sour my opinion a bit 

Jamie

If you look anything like your avitar photo is real, I'm pretty certain I'd be thinking That's a nice hunk!

For me it has been very uneven.  Some people had no trouble, others are slow.  I have four good male friends I continue to see individually regularly.  One never slips and treats me very much as a woman - not just lip service but really as a woman - the others rarely slip and mostly treat me as a woman.  The same has happened with female friends.  I haven't seen my sister in a while, but I'm sure she hasn't really shifted yet.  And my brother - well, I'll let you know if it ever happens.

I've been Kate for almost 11 months now.  I'm less touchy about the slipups than I used to be.  It just takes time and usage.

- Kate

I had mixed results. I have moved to another country since living full time, so I will rarely ever see any of those people from my old life anyway. Most did start seeing me as completely female, it was obvious in their changed attitudes towards me. Both men and women treat women differently; it's a fact of life.

But I completely know what you mean about the frustration of it. Those few that I felt were simply humoring me became far less important over time. Now everyone in my new home only knows me for who I am now, not who I used to be. It's a nice feeling.

I'm very close to my sister in law and brother in law. They have been a tower of strength for me in a lot of stuff I have to deal  with. He always uses male pronouns and male name, she always uses female pronouns and my name. He takes us both out to dinner, shows etc and is a charming gent who looks after the both of us as the guy with two ladies, his wife and his sister in law. He is totally protective and treats me as female with no issue at all. But he still uses male pronouns and name. I'm pretty sure he doesn't realise it. BTW he doesn't out me in anyway at all  go figure

Sorry if that was off the thread.

Cindy

From my experience, even if you started transitioning in early childhood, there are always going to be a few who either want to make a point or simply don't realise what they are doing.

As you go on through the decades two things happen, or at least they did to me, 1. 98% get it right 98% of the time. and 2. you become a lot more secure in yourself so the 2% which don't get it right can be laughed off or sometimes not even noticed.

I can honestly say that at this point I no longer care. As long as people are pleasant and don't do silly things like asking me to use the wrong public toilet, or anything gender specific like that, then they can call me what they darn well like.

The odd thing is, as I think I have admitted in another thread, I've even uninetentionally slipped up ocassionally myself, and oddly enough not even always with someone who was trans. So I do wonder if this is not partly just something that everyone does from time to time and it's only because we have a particular axe to grind that we notice and get upset.

I would also say that, again from my own direct experience, it's only the passage of time that seems to make the difference. Moving away might work for a while, but unless you are going to ditch all your past friends and relatives 100%, which to me seems like a really bad idea, and a jolly good way to become very isolated, then you have to accept that news eventually travels.

I know of two people, here in the UK, who repeatedly tried to run away from their past by moving on. Both are now dead, suicides, because they found out the hard way that however far they ran the past eventually catches up. So I really wouldn't recommend that course of action.

I left my family and friends behind me, expecting never to have contact with them again.  I was too well known where I came from and I did not want my family to suffer the repercussions of what I was going to do.

In other words, all my old friends, work colleagues never new (well as far as I know) what happened to me and hence never got to know the new me.

As to my family, eventually they all found out from one another.  I do not know who told who.  That did not matter I was in one part of the country and they were in other parts of the country in other words they were not going to visit me any time soon to get to know me.

I spoke with my uncle (who new what I was doing ) who used the right pronouns and name.  I know I spoke with my mum over the phone but I do not remember if the correct pronouns or right name was used.  I think my mum was still in the dark a little as to what was going on, but she was aware that my voice had changed.  Anyway after leaving the family and two years later, I had my surgery and eventually I caught up with various family members one by one.

Somehow they new what my new name was and they must have had some idea on the usage of the right pronouns. My family members caught up with me in their own way through visits and family gatherings.  However, when I caught up with them,  I remember asking most of them politely, that I will never ever again will answer to my old name and if it persisted I would not be present when they were around.  Sometimes I would say no that is not my name, but then again those particular family members would not see me from one year to the next.  Which is understandable and of course the occasional slip up.

So basically they got to know me again slowly over the next couple of years  (I would say 2 to 3 years) after I had my surgery.  Now it's just as if I never went away.

As rejennyrated mentioned "98% get it right 98% of the time" and the other 2% can be chalked up as typical stuff ups we all personally make when getting names and pronouns wrong from time to time. Yes, even I have slipped up once or twice.

Kind regards
Sarah B

Quote from: spacial on March 06, 2010, 06:21:31 PM
Jamie

If you look anything like your avitar photo is real, I'm pretty certain I'd be thinking That's a nice hunk!

Well, garsh! *blush*  Yes, that is really me, albeit a carefully chosen photograph. 


Thank you all for your replies.  I'm probably just getting overly impatient.  It's just that, for me it's been so long in coming, that it seems as if they should have had ample time to get used to it by now.  That, and I really, truly don't understand why they are having so much trouble with it.  I guess, since I never identified with my birth gender, the concept of a fixed gender has never taken hold in my brain.  And I don't even look like a girl anymore, so I can't understand why they still see me as one.     *sigh*  Ah well.  I don't have any other options at the moment, so I guess I'll just have to grin and bear it for now.

Jamie,
I really don't think it is always that they still see you as a girl.  I think some of the slip-ups – perhaps the majority – are habit and just part of the brain's wiring.  It takes time to re-wire. 

One of my male friends told me: "I can't understand why anyone would see you as anything other than a woman."  (Probably the nicest thing he ever said to me. )  And then, ten minutes later said: "Thank you, sir, uh, ma'am."

Be gentle with your friends.

- Kate

PS  I agree with Spacial. *flutters eyelashes*

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Post Merge: March 11, 2010, 06:28:11 PM

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I have coffee with an 82 year-old man once a week and have been for years.  He has been an enthusiastic supporter of my transition, always asking how it is going and complimenting me when I look good.  He knew my wife and knows of my past, but he always calls me Kate and thinks it is wonderful that I am finding myself.

Today he noticed that when we both stood, he expected me to go first (being the woman).  He's done this for a little while, but this is the first time he noticed it.  It's been almost a year of me being Kate for him to get to this point.

And that's what I mean about re-wiring.  It is easier for us because we have been thinking about it for a long time and it is very important to us.  It takes longer for others.  They may be able to shift the name and pronouns, but it takes a while for the inherent, sub-conscious response to shift.

- Kate

Well, I transitioned when I was 16 and was pretty much unknown to most people, I dropped out of school and started working at BK..where they all knew me as just male. So that was cool. Lived like that til I was almost 19, quit transitioning for my ex, long story, but started again on Jan 29th of this year. When I started transitioning again, I had more friends and ->-bleeped-<- so it took awhile for them to get it right. I know alot of people still don't take me seriously, but I absolutely DON'T let anyone slip up on the pronouns. I call them out on it as soon as they slip up. If they really didn't mean to I take it easy on them but it still gets to me. I don't think anyone is used to the new me yet, besides some of my drag friends and my very supportive ftm drag dad. Cause they know how it is, so to speak.

It is easier for us because we have been thinking about it for a long time and it is very important to us.  It takes longer for others.

Yeah, it's always been interesting to me that after years, and sometimes decades, coming to grips with this ourselves, we expect the rest of the world to turn in a New York Second.

Quote fro tekla
Yeah, it's always been interesting to me that after years, and sometimes decades, coming to grips with this ourselves, we expect the rest of the world to turn in a New York Second.

Very true that.
We even expect our parents who thought we were whatever to immediatly agree that we are whatever whatevers as soon as we say so.

Good point, obvious, but hadn't thought of it in this context.

Quote from: tekla on March 18, 2010, 02:54:42 PM
It is easier for us because we have been thinking about it for a long time and it is very important to us.  It takes longer for others.

Yeah, it's always been interesting to me that after years, and sometimes decades, coming to grips with this ourselves, we expect the rest of the world to turn in a New York Second.

Absolutely! And as I was reading this thread I was thinking about our family dogs. We used to have a black labrador called Dolly, had her from a puppy till the day she died.

Two years ago we got another labrador, called Daisy.

But you know what? I still, continually, call her Dolly.

Now, if I can't get the name of my darn dog straight after two years, I can hardly blame people if they have trouble with me!!

One way to get family to get on board -- family emergency.  Suddenly they need to use the correct pronouns and use son/sister etc or risk outing me to potentially transphobic people in the Bible Belt.

And having them see first-hand that strangers see me as nothing other than male and using the correct pronouns.

Not recommended, obviously, but at least they get it.