I need a bit of a safe place to lay this out and this is the best i can come up with, even though I anticipate some pretty harsh reaction from some quarters.

The wife and I have gone through a pretty rough month. Her disapproval of my transition has been heightened by the fact that her hormones have gone nuts (hot and cold flashes to the extreme, wild mood swings) and we haven't yet gotten her to the doc to see what the deal is.

But her history - going back to the days when we were dealing with her severe depression and on back into a less than quality childhood - is that when she fights she goes for blood.

I should say, in passing, that we went YEARS with almost no serious disagreements at all and pretty much never fought, so this is something that the kids haven't seen since they were very young.

When she gets like that she is out of control, verbally and physically. but it's usually only in brief episodes. In any case, there's a tremendous amount of strain on the kids because of the arguing - they seem to be accepting of my "issues" but just don't like the conflict.

Again, this is mostly in the last 4-6 weeks.

She is also, as if the situation isn't complex enough, pretty much incapable of surviving as a single parent (for reasons I won't go into but are quite real) and furthermore, her whole world revolves around "him" (she refuses to accept that "he" and "she" are one and speaks of them as individuals) and she is very likely to be suicidal if I leave to complete my tranistion.

SO

In light of all the potential risk to my kids (either constant conflict, or a potential suicide issue with their mother, or variations on those themes) I have pretty much decided that after my census work is over I'm going to be forced to TEMPORARILY dial back on my transition to the point she can accept it (basically, an androgynous look on the outside) until the kids are adult or close to it (the period we have discussed is three years).

The agreement is more complex than I need to describe in this post (what I get to keep, what I will lay aside for now, etc) but her part is that she is supposed to work on her tolerance and try to develop an open mind towards Laura (the theory being that I rushed the transition too much over the last six months or so).

I have to admit that I am pessimistic she will change her thinking. My assumption now is that when i re-boot the full transition in 2013 that she will pretty quickly return to the discussion of divorce.

But at least the kids will be out of the danger zone and she will perhaps have more alternatives for support and such by then.

And as for me, while the three years will be very hard to get through mentally, I'll use that time for weight loss, hair removal and, at the end, HRT so that when I'm back to full time, I'll present hopefully a much better image.

That is, of course, assuming it doesn't blow up before then.

In any case, I have to remind myself that if I can't finish the transition until I am 50, I'm still ahead of the age curve that many of my sisters have had to deal with so I should consider it a small price.

I'm really not sure that I'm asking a question here so I'll kind of finish the post with one - am I wrong to feel as if I have somewhat betrayed my identity, or undermined my credibility if I go back to something less than a fully female presentation?

I mean I KNOW, intellectually, that I haven't but I sure FEEL as if I have. I want to get a t-shirt to wear during that time that says "No, by God, I really AM Trans!!!"

I think that we all do it to some extent, Laura.  Just to survive.  I did the male thing for the last ten years of my marriage because we just could not live separately.  It was not easy and it ended anyway.

No one can tell you what to do.  We do what we have to for our family.  I should have ended it years before I did, but when it did finally end we remained friends.  If it ended earlier it would have been a war.

Be at peace, Dear Sister.  You will find your peace in its own time.  I firmly believe that, everything in its own time.

My deepest Respect to you!

That just about says it. I think you are being very considerate and caring to your family - and I admire you for being willing/able to do that.

I wish you every good luck and great success in the future! You certainly won't get any criticism from me, or indeed I feel from anyone with any level of maturity and understanding of the human condition or the value of caring about the feelings of others around them.

So if you do get any, as you put it, "harsh reaction" I should just ignore it as youthful (or even ancient) naivety.

Hi Laura, Sorry to see that you are enduring a time of struggle. My wife and I went thru a good one about two or three weeks ago and I also am caring for my parents-father in particular and have to rein in my presentation somewhat for the well being of my family. We do what we must for the security of our own so don't beat yourself up because of that-rather hold your head up and be confident in the knowledge that you can do this for your kids and wife.

Things are better now for us at home and I remain hopeful that we can keep things together. I hope the same for you and yours and will keep you in my prayers.

Randi

I applaud you for your willingness to hold off for your children.  I was willing to do that as well, but my wife had just wanted a reason to end our marriage.  Don't bear yourself up for doing what you must.  Sometimes we have to do what we need to over what we want to.  It is called responsibility and I commend you for it.

You know WHO you are.  You are not betraying that.  The time will come when you can continue, it'll happen when the time is right.

I too will keep you in my prayers. 

Just some observations,

She won't be a single parent if you seperate. You will also be there to look after the kids. You can do a soft seperation i.e. both still look after the kids together but no longer partners. There are other options.

I don't think you can be responsible if she wants to try suicide. You can't be responsible for her parenting either.

I think if she gets her menopause stuff out the way (assuming this is what it is), then you should rediscuss it. It seems like that is the agrivating factor at the moment.  Also counselling together could be really useful.

Hope things work out for you.

Take care
Nicki

Quote from: Nicky on March 15, 2010, 07:54:14 PM
Just some observations,

She won't be a single parent if you seperate. You will also be there to look after the kids. You can do a soft seperation i.e. both still look after the kids together but no longer partners. There are other options.

We've talked over variations on the theme, and in the more rational conversations we are pretty much agreed that something less than a full on hostile divorce would be practical.

She just has a real hard time seeing me as Laura - even though we have an agreement basically in place, every day when I dress for work and she sees the full-on presentation it just emotionally tortures her and that leads to the thought that what she doesn't see will be easier to accept BUT then that circles back around to the idea that Laura amounts to the "other woman" who took her husband away. Which makes it hard to be civil with her.

Still, without getting off on a complete tangent, yes, we've talked about a lot of variants.

However, when I comment on her ability to be a single parent, it's not just the usual stuff. She has, and has had, pretty noteable anxiety issues (to the extent that she is only now learning to drive) and she's been pretty sheltered because of this.

Also, and I do not mean to overstate my own desirability in any way but it also has made her very emotionally dependent upon me to the extent to which I'm uncertain she'd be able to function at all if I wasn't here (she literally struggles emotionally to handle something as small as me being out of town overnight even in the good times).

Both of these would create serious difficulties just in routine day to day activities.

Quote
I don't think you can be responsible if she wants to try suicide. You can't be responsible for her parenting either.

I don't want to be misunderstood - as a parent she is WONDERFUL aside from being so interested in her children's happiness that she can tend towards over-indulgent.

My concern is over what results from her emotional crash if one happens.

Quote
I think if she gets her menopause stuff out the way (assuming this is what it is), then you should rediscuss it.

she had a hysterectomy some years ago, and up until she had a brief switchover (forced by economic issues) on her depression medicine in late 2008 and early 2009 the (aparent) symptoms associated with hormone imbalance have steadily increased.
I would normally have assumed it's all about the transition and not mood swings except for the hot flashes.

Quote
It seems like that is the agrivating factor at the moment.  Also counselling together could be really useful.

We've looked into that but....

1. She won't go into Memphis for pretty much any reason
2. Few therapists outside Memphis have gender-related experience
3. We have no insurance and outside the boon of the census job, not enough income for formal counseling
4. the local guy (who has seen one of our kids in the past) speaks well of seeing us for a reduced fee (he wants to use my situation as part of a thesis I think) but so far has been unresponsive in terms of actually setting something up
5. A former pastor has been a great friend to us both and has expressed to me that he still considers me a friend but when we ask him about some marriage counseling he declined on the basis of lack of experience (my hunch is he saw the potential to be accused of taking sides)

In short, we've encountered considerable stumbling blocks to doing that even though both of us think it's a good idea.

Quote
Hope things work out for you.

Take care
Nicki

I appreciate your - and everyone's - well wishes.

QuoteLaura Hope: there's a tremendous amount of strain on the kids because of the arguing - they seem to be accepting of my "issues" but just don't like the conflict.

QuoteLaura Hope: In light of all the potential risk to my kids (either constant conflict, or a potential suicide issue with their mother, or variations on those themes) I have pretty much decided...to TEMPORARILY dial back on my transition...until the kids are adult or close to it (the period we have discussed is three years).

QuoteNicky: She won't be a single parent if you seperate. You will also be there to look after the kids. You can do a soft seperation i.e. both still look after the kids together but no longer partners. There are other options.

I'm inclined to agree with Nicky here.

My parents are going through an extremely nasty divorce right now. At first, it was one of those things were they fell out of love with each other. But my mom (from a strict Catholic background) was determined to stay together until my younger brother graduated from high school- "for the good of the kids". I always told her that they should split up, that we didn't need to have them both living together. The air in my house was always tense, dinner each night was followed by him being angry at everyone. I hated and feared him. I don't think he's necessarily a bad guy, nor was he physically abusive--but God, that guy was not meant to be a dad. He was emotionally and mentally manipulative and doesn't care if he screws his own kids over if it means he's happy (i.e. he didn't pay my college tuition last quarter and bought himself another house). My family was always so miserable because of his emotional instability. [In case you're wondering, he cheated on my mom. It took all of her family and friends, including her mother-in-law, to convince her to leave him.]

I have to say that, even though the divorce is extremely nasty, I am so relieved. My brother is relieved. It was unbearable to see my sweet mother be so miserable, though she tried to hide it.  The constant conflict wore us down. My parents might have thought they were doing the best by trying to stick together for "the kids' sake" but sometimes it so isn't worth it.

I would advise you to have a frank conversation with your kids. Maybe they'll enlighten you about what they actually want. Of course, everyone really wants to believe that they'll have two happy parents who are in love and equally devoted to each other and to the kids. But in light of the reality...

*sigh* Personally, if I was your daughter I would be afraid of my mom's sporadic sudden episodes of verbal and physical abuse. It would keep me tense. And then I would want my other mom to stay true to herself and be happy! Clearly I'm a divorce advocate (sorry if I'm coming on too strongly by the way I hope I'm not!!)  Of course, I do not really know what goes on in your house, so your kids might see something different. Please consider their opinion rather than thinking that staying together is obviously the best solution.

This breaks my heart; I'm sending you lots of love!  Whatever you and your family decide to do, I wish you the best of luck! I hope everything works out.

I'm familiar with the sort of situation you describe. My own parents divorced when I was 14 or so and I was very glad they didn't "stay together for the kids"

Frankly, if she were willing and able to move on and have a go at a full life without me I would simply leave - she really does deserve more man than I can be.

But right now she's simply not up to that.

Also, I should mention that my younger (13 years old) has apparently inherited her mental difficulties and that adds another layer of complexity.

Still, the bottom line is that if we stay together it has to be peacefully - it's very true that if we stay under the same roof AND in regular conflict, it's worse than splitting. The attempt here is to reach a "truce" where the conflict is minimized for now.

if that fails, it's pretty certain we'll have to split.

No advice or suggestions. Just positive vibes.

I got a nice hug today and will send it round your way.

Laura

First I want to say how sad I am for the pain you and your wife are going through. I wish for you both that it gets better. It is hard to read your words, but I feel what you wrote deserves to be honored by being read.

I also wanted to answer the question you asked, about whether or not you are betraying yourself. IMHO You are more than a woman who needs to change her body. You are also a loving parent and spouse. You are trying to balance competing priorities that for the moment are incompatible. You are trying to be true as best you can.

I am hoping for you to have the strength and patience to last until you can be more simply your female self.

Kendall

The glass is both half-empty and half-full.

Hi Laura

Just to say I 100% support your decision, and applaud your honesty here.

Regardless of the outcome, we have to try to do what is right by our loved ones...
...and if in time we loose the fight, at least we know in our hearts that we tried our best to hold things together when we move on.. 



Chrissty

Laura, you've always struck me as someone who has a good handle on things and good sense.  I think you will figure out some way to handle this that will work as best as can be under the circumstances.

I agree with Lauren that you might talk to the kids about all this.  It could be difficult because they won't want to take sides, but you might get a feel for what they are thinking.

Many of us have had to put our transitions on hold in order to make the rest of our lives work somehow.  It can be done, but you have to be gentle with yourself and realize that some of your resulting odd behavior is part of the coping mechanism.

And if you do put it all on hold, I would get the T-shirt and keep it in a drawer where you could see it every time you get clothes out to dress in drab.

Hang in there, dear.

*hugs*
Kate

Laura ... first, you have my total sympathy and understanding. I, too, am one of those who has to wrestle between my longing to transition as quickly and fully as possible and my love and responsibility for my extremely long-suffering wife and our children, one of who is only now beginning to recover from life-threatening health problems. I don't pretend to have any answers except to say that it doesn't make you any less of a woman if you decide to put transition on hold, or even de-transition for the good of those you love. I only say that because I have seen some forum threads (not this one, obviously) in which people suggest that if you are able to let your duty to others override your own needs, you're somehow not truly transsexual ... Personally, I don't plan to get rid of my moral and ethical principles along with my penis, so I don't buy that argument for one second.

On a more practical note, I would have suggested that you and your wife do counselling/therapy together, but I can see that that would not be possible at this time. Perhaps, though, you can use some of the techniques and communication exercises that therapists employ with couples. Here's one which has really helped my wife and me. I offer it to you, but totally understand if you do not feel it would suit. Anyway ...

Find a time and place where you can talk in peace and security, where you both feel comfortable.

Decide in advance those subjects which you do or do not want to discuss at that particular time. A little give and take may be needed to come up with an agreed list!

One of you talks for five minutes about a subject that matters to them. There must be no interruption of any kind, even if the person falls silent, during that five minutes.

The other person then recounts what they have heard during those five minutes ... this is very important to make sure that there has been effective communication and effective listening. It is also crucial that no comment is made about what has been heard. In other words, you can say, 'I heard you say that you were really unhappy about the idea of me as a woman.' But you can't say, 'You were unhappy about the idea of me as a woman, but I think you would get used to it in time.'

The second person then has their five minutes ... uninterrupted. And this time the first person describes what they have heard.

And that's it. No arguing is allowed. The whole exercise is simply a matter of letting the other speak and acknowledging what they have said. It may sound strange .. and it feels strange to do it at first ... but I promise you it can work wonders in a marriage in which the partners have lost the simple, but vital skill of saying what they feel, hearing what the other one is saying, and mutually respecting both sets of feelings.

Good luck!! xx