My doctor says it usually lowers to female levels inbetween one to two months.

Does that sound about right?

For those that are on hrt, how long did it take you?

It took about 4 months to drop my T from 225 to 12.
Keep in mind that HRT is a YMMV situation.

Well, you can't really feel it, I didn't anyway.

I have not had my T tested since I started, only my electrolytes. I think on Spiro alone you still have a high level of T floating in your blood anyway, you are still making it,  so I'm not sure if the test would tell you anything. It is more that the spiro competes with it at the receptors.

Because you have more unused T in your system, you get more converting to estrogen, and this is where some of the effects come from.

Also the physical results of that low testosterone uptake and increased estrogen level can take a long time to manifest. We are talking numbers of months here.

That is my understanding of it anyway. Have a squiz at my blog - I have a log of the effects of hormones on me. For the first 3 months or so I only had spiro and results from that.

It is only now that I am on E that the endo said this will affect my testosterone levels. Sounds like it is actually estrogen which reduces your testosterone, not spiro. Spiro just sort of stops testosterone from affecting your body.  (I could be wrong here....welcome any comments on this)

Thanks for the reply!
(and so fast!)
Ill look into it.

edit: sorry if this is dumb, but where can I find your blog? I didnt see it in your profile.

Quote from: Nicky on March 22, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
Well, you can't really feel it, I didn't anyway.

I have not had my T tested since I started, only my electrolytes. I think on Spiro alone you still have a high level of T floating in your blood anyway, you are still making it,  so I'm not sure if the test would tell you anything. It is more that the spiro competes with it at the receptors.

Because you have more unused T in your system, you get more converting to estrogen, and this is where some of the effects come from.

Also the physical results of that low testosterone uptake and increased estrogen level can take a long time to manifest. We are talking numbers of months here.

That is my understanding of it anyway. Have a squiz at my blog - I have a log of the effects of hormones on me. For the first 3 months or so I only had spiro and results from that.

It is only now that I am on E that the endo said this will affect my testosterone levels. Sounds like it is actually estrogen which reduces your testosterone, not spiro. Spiro just sort of stops testosterone from affecting your body.  (I could be wrong here....welcome any comments on this)

I agree with you a 100%, my endo told me around 6 months. I went everything at once except for the prometrium which i started on my 2nd year.

Ok found the blog, now which entry specifically?

The stikied one at the top..

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69322.0.html

Alright, speaking ONLY for myself here.

When I got my pre-HRT blood work done, I was in the average range for males (well actually I wasn't, but accounting for SHGB it was certainly in the male range).

I then got my next blood work done 4 months later (I was self medicating for a few months between the first test and the second while I got a therapists OK) and everything was within female range. How long it took to actually reach that point is anyones guess. But I noticed the most significant differences related to androgen levels within a couple weeks. And my doctor says about 3 weeks.

Oh and I started both hormones and spiro at the same time, and I had just turned 20 at the time, so your millage may obviously vary.

FYI spiro is an androgen, 1/15 the power of testosterone (that's weak)

So yeah, it competes with testosterone receptors, it has androgenic effects (due tiny) but your body is still producing testosterone.

Note that 1/15 is "fine" because male average is like 300-1000 I think and female is 0-100

So you are expecting like tenth of normal range.

My T levels are 0.2 or less by my lab (that means 20 or less). But on Androcur which actually stops T production.

My T-levels just started to drop after 7 months on HRT.  However not a significant amount.  I wish I knew the range we should be in.  I am under an endo's care and I don't have another follow up appt. until August, at my one year check-up.

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Post Merge: March 24, 2010, 12:39:50 PM

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My t-levels are down from 253 to 212ng/dl.

Quote from: Kellsie on March 24, 2010, 12:37:13 PM
My T-levels just started to drop after 7 months on HRT.  However not a significant amount.  I wish I knew the range we should be in.  I am under an endo's care and I don't have another follow up appt. until August, at my one year check-up.

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Post Merge: March 24, 2010, 12:39:50 PM

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My t-levels are down from 253 to 212ng/dl.

Male: 300 -1,000 ng/dL
Female: 20 - 80 ng/dL

Are you in spiro? spiro shouldn't lower T

I am on Estradiol, and Spiro.

Quote from: Kellsie on March 24, 2010, 01:53:39 PM
I am on Estradiol, and Spiro.

probably ok then

I wonder if spiro is better for your libido than androcur? I'm guess it would be. But then a lot of trans girls say androcur is way more effective...

Shrug

Quote from: Myself on March 24, 2010, 01:31:00 PM
Male: 300 -1,000 ng/dL
Female: 20 - 80 ng/dL

Are you in spiro? spiro shouldn't lower T

Pardon? My doc told me that spiro blocks both T receptors and the production of T. Was that a typo, or did we hear/interpret things differently?

I had labs done about three months after starting HRT, taking a standard course of spiro and estradiol (oral), and my T levels were at 20. I didn't have labs before -- my doc said it's irrelevant where I started, as long as the drugs work.

I noticed clear effects within a month, including the start of breast development (just barely), drier and clearer skin, a changed libido (less of an "edge"), and fewer erections, with some pain at times.

My doc seemed to think this all seemed quite normal.

I found some stuff to say Spiro blocks T production in the adrenal glands, nothing on testicular production.  But you could be right. Perhaps the effects are not so strong??

Shrug. As long as they work I'm happy.

From what I read, it was the opposite, it said it didnt affect adrenal production. If I find a source, I'll give it.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/rq24p38607370108/

QuoteHealthy male subjects were given orally a single dose of [...] canrenone per kg body weight. Canrenone caused a significant decrease in plasma testosterone concentration already 3 hrs after administration of the drug. Suppression of plasma testosterone concentration by 50 to 60 per cent persisted over 9 hrs.
It is concluded that suppression of testosterone production is an important factor in the antiandrogenic activity of spirolactones in man.

(NOTE: For many reasons, the dose in this study has no relation to theraputic dosages in HRT. Canrenone is the active form of spironolactone.)


http://www.annals.org/content/87/4/398.short

QuotePeripheral blood levels of testosterone, estradiol, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone and the metabolic clearance rates of testosterone and estradiol, as well as the peripheral conversion of testosterone into estradiol, were measured in 16 patients with hypertension. Six of these patients were treated with spironolactone and developed gynecomastia. The other 10 patients served as control subjects. The blood testosterone level in the spironolactone-treated group (2.7 ± 0.5 ng/ml) was significantly less (P < 0.02) than in the control group (4.4 ± 0.4 ng/ml). On the other hand, blood estradiol levels in the spironolactone group (30 ± 4 pg/ml) were significantly greater (P < 0.01) than in the control group (13 ± 2 pg/ml). These changes were primarily due to significant increases in the metabolic clearance rate of testosterone (P < 0.02) and in the rate of peripheral conversion of testosterone into estradiol (P < 0.001) in the spironolactone-treated group. Thus, spironolactone does alter the peripheral metabolism of testosterone resulting in changes in the ratio of testosterone to estradiol, which could contribute to the production of gynecomastia.

A quick google search (www and scholar) on 'spironolactone testosterone production' didn't give me a clear answer. But whether it's from a decrease in production or increase in metabolism of T to E, plasma levels should go down, and that is part of the mechanism behind the feminizing effects.

I was under the understanding that although technically spiro just blocks androgen receptors and not directly the production of androgens. The very fact that it DOES block those receptors, does induce a degree of reduced androgen production.

I could be wrong however.

I do know that from my blood work my androgen production is well within the female range, and I just take spiro and estradiol.