I don't want to become a woman - but being a man is starting to make me feel trapped.  Having said that, I am happy with the idea of being male - as long as this can include wearing skirts and blouses etc. when I feel the desire too.  I am fairly feminine looking and to me this is not an uncongruous look (I will put a few pics up when I have enough posts to do so).  I like the look of makeup but it feels really uncomfortable on my skin so don't think that will be a part of my expression.  And I like wigs for dressing up but don't think I want this as part of any 'everyday' appearance (although I am also trying to keep all options open right now while I am trying to sort all this stuff out in my head and in my life)

I guess if/when I begin wearing such things out and about, I would be seen to be a 'gender bender'.  But to me, gender in our society is already bent and contorted into the cages of 'man' and 'woman' - and it needs setting free!

Does any of this sound familiar to people?

Actually, this sounds really familiar - from the other side. I know what it takes to make the transition from female to male. My uncle transitioned when I was five, and I know I don't dislike being female enough to work that hard for it. Despite that, being female makes me feel... well, yeah, trapped. When I wore my hair shorter and consciously tried to dress like a guy, people would ask me to help them carry things, give me honest feedback instead of trying to navigate what they imagined I must be feeling. One time this guy actually asked if I'd want to join the wrestling team. And I want that - but I don't want the pressure to be bigger, stronger, to have to always wear masculine clothes, to know everything about every sport, to hide the feelings I do have. So these days, my style always seems to be a mix between the two predetermined gender norms - even though I am a guy.

My uncle and I were talking a while back, and he said that people should be born sexually neutral - that gender assignment surgery should be the option. And he said that, frankly, he doubted very many people would opt for it. That really resonated for me.

Thanks.

Hi Saint. Believe me there are as many variations on this as you could imagine.

I most definitely DID want to become female. So much so that I transitioned in early life and went through the entire medical process of SRS. I have never regretted that decision for one moment.

However I also enjoy playing with expectations. The average transwoman seems to want to be seen as all girly girly, gentle passive and femme. Most of the time I don't. I'm quite happy being a practical down to earth no frills woman. I won't call myself exactly masculine, but I'm most definitely the tomboy! On one day I will wear the girly stuf, and then another I'll put on my boot cut jeans and leathers. Like Eosophoros I'm mostly a strange mixture of both and I am really happy with that.

So the bottom line to all this is to just find the point on the spectrum where you feel comfortable and don't let anyone intimidate you.

I get where you are coming from I feel trapped in society boys do this girls do that Men don't cry but it is all crap
I'm not allowed to be me according to the rules of society and that I'm only allowed to be a guy or a girl but I'm both.
I've created my own Ideas on what feels right for me and while I get laughed at sometimes because I present as me but there is nothing wrong with that, we live in a sad world most of the time and I'm glad that just by being me I'm bringing some joy into someone else's life.
There are a lot of things I like that are very girly and a few things that are clearly manly.  but I try to stay outside of the cages as much as possible.  I hate feeling trapped

I'll agree with Jenny, there's definitely loads of flavours to this.

I definitely want to be a woman, however I know that I'm not going to be some hyper girly girl. In fact I've started to realise that one of the reasons I managed to live with the itch of GD for so long is because the mental image I have of me as a girl isn't a million miles removed from how I've been as guy for the past 10 years. I'd never really thought about it until recently, but for pretty much all my life I've been very gender neutral and now I look back on it there were times where I was pretty much androgynous...i just never thought of it in that way, I was just being myself. All I want to do is pivot round the mid point of the gender spectrum and find the point opposite where I have been for the past 10 years so I can finally be myself...some crazy haired alternative girl. hehe.

Like Jenny said, just find a point where you are happy being you, and don't let anyone take that away from you.

I agree with vex. I think it is a bit like being in your teenage years - you go over the top at first then settle down later as you find who you are as a woman. I'm still in that process, so many mistakes to be made....so many bad fashion choices lol

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 09, 2010, 06:13:55 PM
That's not a particularly good generalisation to make - and if true, may only hold for the first few years after transition while trans women find their own personal tastes/style.
Cis people stereotype us enough already - please don't fuel that fire.

Quote from: Nicky on May 09, 2010, 06:32:38 PM
I agree with vex. I think it is a bit like being in your teenage years - you go over the top at first then settle down later as you find who you are as a woman. I'm still in that process, so many mistakes to be made....so many bad fashion choices lol

Fair enough - I will withdraw that comment then - although in my defense I will say that it was based on observation of several trans friends. Remember I have been postop since 1984 - and at least part way transitioned since my early childhood in the early 1960's so I am in touch with people who are very very old-timers and like me have been postop for 26 years or more. A lot of them have actually not changed that much. Though obviously I can only speak of those I know... Perhaps it's a generational thing - you modern girls have it worked out in a way that many of my generation couldn't do because we did not have the internet - happily I always was a bit ahead of my time

But it was certainly not my intention to upset or denigrate anyone.

Quotesome crazy haired alternative girl. hehe.

Alternative girl, I like this.


Jenny,
I noticed that you said it seemed to you.

To me that says you were only going on what you had perceived.  We all make observations and yours are as valid as anyones.

Quote from: Eosophoros on May 08, 2010, 01:29:56 PM
My uncle and I were talking a while back, and he said that people should be born sexually neutral - that gender assignment surgery should be the option. And he said that, frankly, he doubted very many people would opt for it. That really resonated for me.

Thanks.

I really liked your whole post, but I especially liked the remaining part.  In a sense, we are all androgynous in the womb with a default biological state of "female" to most scientists...  I'd argue it's more neuter, but our reaction to hormones is really what makes us pink or blue and start assigning those traits, not so much the XY/XX stuff.  We're all from the same mommy and daddy goo.  I think, to a degree, hormones do dictate how we feel about gender roles, but I also think it's probably a gene expression thing.

Does anyone have any gene expression info as it relates to gender issues?  Any good free journals?

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 09, 2010, 07:36:55 PM
This will have a lot to do with the psychiatry profession's ideas at that time and the cultural expectations of women at that time. Both of these have evolved significantly, allowing young trans women much more variety of expression than those who transitioned 30-40 years ago.

Exactly. Thank you.

I had to break that mould without much help or support at the time and it wasn't easy or comfortable doing it, I can tell you. See one of my other posts here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70921.msg528957.html#msg528957 for details of a genuine conversation on just such a theme that took place between me and my gender psychiatrist in about Nov 1977.

Thankfully you evidently did not have to deal with that, for which I am grateful. It seems the efforts of I and others like me, who did fight the system, to educate the doctors were not in vain, but sadly many of my contemporaries simply never managed to break out of it in the way I did.

Also the limits of acceptable behaviour for women as a whole have now widened a lot. Back when I first transitioned in my childhood it was still technically impossible for a woman in the UK to get a mortgage without a male guarrantor! Believe me things have changed more than perhaps you realise.

Hence my original thoughts, which as I say was only my observation, and certainly not intended to, as you put it "fuel the fire" of any prejudices.  Anyway no problem we now understand each others perpective.

Quote from: LordKAT on May 09, 2010, 07:05:54 PM
Alternative girl, I like this.

A very alternative girl.

Yes, i totally get what the OP is talking about. I'm also in the process of figuring out what "fits" me and what doesn't. Even what "fits" me has already shifted 

Familiar? Oh yes quite.

Let's see...I'm a natal woman, hormonally male (I take T) growing a beard, keeping my breasts (cuz I like them) dress in men's pants one day, girls skirts the next....yep. Pretty darn androgyne.

Nothing to add, except I like ƃuıxǝʌ's upside down and backwards name! 

Z

Thanks for all the replies!

Im getting used to my decision that its okay for me to express and explore parts of myself that have been mostly hidden for a long time.  From time to time my psyche screams "PANIC STATIONS! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!" but really its all good.  Just part of the process of being a human being

Quote from: Zythyra on May 10, 2010, 01:51:40 PM
Nothing to add, except I like ƃuıxǝʌ's upside down and backwards name! 

Z

Wouldn't that be ¿s,ƃuıxǝʌ

Quote from: FairyGirl on May 10, 2010, 02:37:08 PM
Wouldn't that be ¿s,ƃuıxǝʌ

ti od ot woh wenk I fi, sey   

Z

!sʞuɐɥʇ 'lol

Z