Quote from: barbie on May 16, 2010, 05:23:51 AM
I am living in Korea, in which the actual population density is probably one of the highest in the world. A problem here is women tend to spend to much time and money in their beauty.

I know that Korea isn't Japan, but your comment made me think of Geishas. I'd love to wear a kimono and make-up like one, do my hair up too teehee. I already love every aspect of japanese culture, I think back in feudal times they were maids for hire for aristocrats, but their services were NEVER sexual (must stress this), however nowadays in or modern society that Geishas would be an expression of feminine beauty and grace Tho I don't think the japanese still have them now, and I'd look rather silly here in the UK if I were to go out dressed like one XD It seems the "expression of feminine beauty" in our western societies are all about exposing as much of your body as possible :\

I'm unsire of what japanese girls wear but I can take a good guess, I'm sure they wear similar clothes to american girls.

Omg.. theres a Geisha school in the UK.. http://schoolofgeisha.com/geisha_training_uk.html jeez this isn't cheap! But they do take you to japan and train there This is amasing..

For ƃuıxǝʌ, I just have a feeling you'll hate my opinion on this and I don't want us to fight anymore, but let me give you this quote from the website, it puts the idea of the Geisha in a way I couldn't possibly: "Modern lifestyle barely leaves room for emotional and spiritual recreation. We are moving away  from the force of Being into aggressive reality of Doing. We suppress our feelings and trust our thinking, cold logic overrides intuition. In this testosterone-driven quest for  supremacy femininity is eroded. Most women are longing to express their femininity and sensuality but rarely find the time to do so. This habit shuts down their feminine energy and often leads to a misbalance in life."

Well said, I look forward to the day I can wear a kimono or cheong sam of an evening. They are just so elegant.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 16, 2010, 06:57:37 AM
Well said, I look forward to the day I can wear a kimono or cheong sam of an evening. They are just so elegant.

Yes yes Elegance and beauty <3 The japanese have a lovely culture where a womans femininity can be valued and respected XD I love how the website closes off the introduction about its school: "Experience the POWER of Being Feminine!" <3

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 16, 2010, 06:38:51 AM
I know that Korea isn't Japan, but your comment made me think of Geishas.

Yes. It is true that Japan has been the window of the East Asia for westerners. Geisha is the same. I guess Geisha was originated from Korean Gisaeng:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisaeng
http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2007/02/19/gisaeng-koreas-version-of-the-geisha/

Anyway the role of geisha had been same between Korea and Japan. Initially, they were for art and entertainment, but later sometimes accompanied by sex service for government officers. I believe, in Japan, a central government and civilization per se started in 17th century, making it necessary to give some entertainment to government officials who were dispatched away from home. In Korea, there had been official gisaengs set up and educated/trained under the control of the central government.

Recently I visited Japan, and my impression was typical fashion of Japanese young women is closer to modern punk fasion whereas Korean young girls tend to be more reserved in their fashion. I prefer the fashion style of Korean girls.

Barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on May 16, 2010, 07:03:34 AM
Anyway the role of geisha had been same between Korea and Japan. Initially, they were for art and entertainment, but later sometimes accompanied by sex service for government officers.

Huh? I always thought it was a bad thing for a Geisha to have sex with clients, they're artists not prostitutes.. Tradition is very highly regarded there.. :\

I also remember watching Memoirs of a Geisha (not basing all my knowledge on this movie, btw ) and when the Geisha had sex with someone she was severely punished by her tutors, wasn't she?

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 16, 2010, 07:09:39 AM
Huh? I always thought it was a bad thing for a Geisha to have sex with clients, they're artists not prostitutes.. Tradition is very highly regarded there.. :\

I also remember watching Memoirs of a Geisha (not basing all my knowledge on this movie, btw ) and when the Geisha had sex with someone she was severely punished by her tutors, wasn't she?

Of course, they were not prostitutes. This does not mean they had never had sexual relationship with their clients. What would happen if a man and a woman are in the same room is beyond the scope of laws and government rules 

Barbie~~

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Post Merge: May 16, 2010, 07:33:31 AM

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There is a famous story in which a gisaeng refused to serve her client, a government official.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunhyangjeon

Based on this novel, we can guess that gisaeng could refuse it, but I am not quite sure what would be punishment for that.

Barbie~~

It makes me sad... to see basic feminist ideals discarded by the trans community [I'm not necessarily saying anyone on this thread is guilty of it]... but the idea that a woman should be pressured to look ANY particular way...  is so disheartening.

Other people are not here to decorate your world.

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 16, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
Why would I hate it? 

Because you seem to hate girly stuff XD Well what do you think of the way of the Geisha?

Other people are not here to decorate your world.

Sure they are, as you are decorating their world at the same time.  That's not to say they are impersonal objects, but it is saying that to some degree you have a responsibility to be there, to see what's there, and to provide some entertainment too.

Once upon a time, durring the interstate crime spree that we called Dead Summer Tour, we all piled out of the van in some little cafe/gas station in some tiny Nebraska town.  Oh god were our freak flags flying, all long hair, hippie clothes, tie-dye, the entire nine yards.  And people were staring.  Someone took out a camera and took a picture of us.  We were the entertainment for that moment.  When one of our crew pointed out to me that we were the center of attention all I could think to say was:

Sometimes you're going to the show, sometimes you're at the show, and sometimes you are the show.  At least be entertaining.

Quote from: tekla on May 16, 2010, 10:23:14 PM
Sometimes you're going to the show, sometimes you're at the show, and sometimes you are the show.  At least be entertaining.

Regarding people's orientation to the external world, I think there are two types: 1) voyeurism, and 2) exhibitionism. Of course, I am the latter. People of voyeurism tend not to take care of their appearance, but very keen on fashion and beauty of their target or ideal people. People of exhibitionism are also very interested in fashion and beauty of their competitors. I guess more women are of exhibitionism whereas men tend to be of voyeurism, but there are many exceptions. Male body builders tend to be of exhibitionism. Women tend to be restrain their desire to exhibit. Certainly, m2f crossdressers are in an extreme state of exhibitionism whereas trany admirers tend to be of voyeurism. It's a kind of yin and yang.

Barbie~~

Not sure if this has been covered or not.

I like to (try) and look nice because I like how it makes me feel. I'm not into a look good competition or act as anyone's entertainment, even taking into account Kat's post. OK lots of guys seem really ok looking like (& smelling) that haven't had a wash for a week. Many guys don't like that as well.
I do remember seeing a couple at a Christmas do. She was wearing a really cute dress. nice heels and nicely made up and looked gorgeous. He was wearing T-short, jeans and stubble, and looked daggy. They seemed to be really happy together. I think they probably loved each other and how they looked was part of their pleasure in being a couple.

Cindy