Well, I been on Spiro for about a little over a month now, but I feel like I don't want to transition as much. My desire to live also weaken too, but I am not depressed though. I am just living in a state of numbness, were I just let the days roll by. It's a neutral state

But I like spiro so far, no complaints really about it. It made my skin softer, but that's the only feminizing effect so far.

Well I really don't know what I want now. I guess being a woman was all in my head, since now I don't really exactly want to be one. I kind of see most of them ugly, which is not what I was thinking a month ago! It's like the closer I am too femininity the less I am attracted too it. Men are so much more attractive though in general. I am far from being a woman though, people see me as a normal guy. But I don't like the ideas of boobs much, but I like the waist and the butt. Maybe my body is just sloppy and I am imagining it's going to look disgusting if I go on estrogen. Lots of doubts.

I feel like I should continue spiro though for the soft skin, but.... I don't really know if I should stop. And it stop my acne, and gave me nicer hair. I just know I am safe now from masculining.

I'll be honest I haven't seen a gender therapist yet, and I probably should since my doctor gave me spiro just for acne. I just don't have money for that kind of stuff.

What has been on my mind is the desire for a friendship, and someone to love me. But that's always on my mind, even in my dreams.

But there's this one guy who calls me "Sandy", and I have no reason why, but I kind of like it.... he always greet me that way. And he ask for my phone number, and I gave it to him, and he called me, but just to see if it was real. He was teasing me and this girl in the class, by repeating the names and crap. But I don't appear like a girl yet and it wasn't my name, so it was awkward at the same time. I have no clue.....
He even ask me to hug him in class, which I did because he just hug me, and told me he would missed me in a joking way. If I was passable girl, I would probably be dating him lol. Awkward as hell still. But I liked it, since he always said something to me every day.

Well, it's good that you are figuring yourself out.

Lol, I hope....

This could be a phase, since  I want more, but I don't know what. I don't find all women ugly, but just something about it now, the fat percentage. Really thin girls seem beautiful, or just plain lean. Not the thick, chubby look, I don't really like fat.

But I like the feelings, and I love thinking I am woman.

It could be I am just finding out I have a dislike for fat... and my mind is trying to delude me to go back. (even though spiro wasn't much for going forward to being woman compare to estrogen)

Do you think your change in mind could have anything to do with taking the spiro? Any hormone can change the way you view the opposite sex. I remember reading an article about birth control and how it can change natural pheromones so girls will seek out mates then if they go off of it, they are not attracted to them whatsoever. Really strange stuff.

Why concern yourself with having to be either man or women, why not focus on being yourself first? The whole idea of manhood/womanhood is only what our culture deems acceptable and is based on image. I think men are far more attractive too but attraction is separate from gender.

If you are taking spiro just for acne then the dose is usually much lower than what is necessary to prevent masculinization. You can have your own personal interests when it comes to what you like in women. Its perfectly ok to dislike body fat and not be fond of boobs.

Quote from: Megan on June 07, 2010, 09:56:39 PM
Well, I been on Spiro for about a little over a month now, but I feel like I don't want to transition as much.

Have you heard of this theory?

Thank you for linking that Ashely. I had forgoten about it.

Could be onto something.

Quote from: MissAshley on June 08, 2010, 12:22:07 PM
Have you heard of this theory?

That's kind of how I am feeling like. Well at least I know there's something like it.

uni,
Well the dose is low, I don't want to take more because I fear breast growth when I want to present as male. But it made my skin softer, and my muscles weaker, and my bones ache. I also feel more tired, but I take caffeine pills now to recharge me. Then I take some other pills, and my hair feels awesome.

Spiro is just awesome... I want to take it forever, but eventually I will have to end it because I heard it causes problems because of testerone or estrogen supply; either or.

Who I am???

I am not even going to deal with that, since there's no way to explain it in words without creeping the hell out of people. I'll just say it's narcissistic, materialistic, delusional, afraid, and needy at heart. I am a good person though, since I accept everyone. I'm a virgin, and that's kind of makes me feel good when I feel like I did something wrong. I think my personality could be compare to Marilyn Monroe in a way.

Thanks for the link; a very interesting read!

From what I gather, it might be best if people who experience feelings like that continue on with the feminization treatments. Because stopping them, or even restoring the old balances, causes anxiety and a need to feminize. It can be prevented by sticking to it; seems to me to be a very worthwhile case.   

It sounds like things are looking up for you Megan, coming out of depression is a wonderful feeling, it just takes a while to realise what "normal" feels like.

The link on A/E was interesting, hormones are incredibly powerful and subtle in their effects.

Well it kind of came back again today, but I am fine with that.

My mother been nice to me lately, and I don't know why, and I don't know if she knows that I have these thoughts now. I used to care if she did or not, but now it's less embarrassing and more comforting if she did. Still I rather keep it a secret since I am still ashamed of it.

But she said a week ago, when I said "I am going to change who I am, since I can look anyway I can" or something like that. In my head I was just thinking about changing my image and not my gender, but my grandma said, "You're going to wear a skirt". Then my mom said it was okay, and I was like "No I am not a ->-bleeped-<-".

But then she said, "You know more than I do g..uy" She uses that line for gurlie.
---

I am not that messed up, I swear, but the transgendered thing comes and go. Usually I think it could be okay to be a guy, then it goes, then it comes.

I don't know how I am ever going to get a lot of money to transition, and essentially its wasting money since I could just live as a guy. 

I am more concerned about the guy who is very interested in you. I also had a similar experience, and still do not figure out why he is so much intered in me. Contrary to your case, he used to say I look better if I wear men's formal dress. Later I clearly realized that I can not maintain this kind of mysterious relationship, and I am clearly attracted to women. But there are various types of men who are interested in me. All of them are very cautious, and usually do not express their feeling straightforwardly, making me more confused. But some of them are really kind and provide favors to me. Not any more. I am fine with it.

Barbie~~

Sounds like you are a bit more relaxed Megan.  At your age it is totally cool to not know what you want from one minute to the next, it's what youth is for!

Plenty of time to let everyone know that you are always right when you are a boring old fart!

Seriously though, enjoy being young these days. 

Quote from: Megan on June 08, 2010, 11:16:39 PM
That's kind of how I am feeling like. Well at least I know there's something like it.

uni,
Well the dose is low, I don't want to take more because I fear breast growth when I want to present as male. But it made my skin softer, and my muscles weaker, and my bones ache. I also feel more tired, but I take caffeine pills now to recharge me. Then I take some other pills, and my hair feels awesome.

Spiro is just awesome... I want to take it forever, but eventually I will have to end it because I heard it causes problems because of testerone or estrogen supply; either or.

Who I am???

I am not even going to deal with that, since there's no way to explain it in words without creeping the hell out of people. I'll just say it's narcissistic, materialistic, delusional, afraid, and needy at heart. I am a good person though, since I accept everyone. I'm a virgin, and that's kind of makes me feel good when I feel like I did something wrong. I think my personality could be compare to Marilyn Monroe in a way.

The problems it causes is resultant from that bone pain you describe as a side effect without any T or E calcium is staring to be drained from your bones this effect is cumulative over time and often can't be replaced in any hurry I think the rate was -3% Bone mass Density per year.

Eventually the bones begin to loose significant mass from the norm and can be structurally compromised. How much you can take depends on how tough your bones were before and diet between the ages of 4-16
I know there are some medications out there used to treat Osteoporosis other than T or E, They invent these because encouraging breast tissue stimulation in old age causes cancers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raloxifene
Certain SERM (Selective estrogen Receptor modulators) medications, They are medications that selectively hit certain estrogen receptors like bones or boobs or hips but not others and just block those that they don't use.

the particular one I linked was Raloxifene
has estrogenic actions on bone and anti-estrogenic actions on the uterus and breast

These are used by male body-builders because sticking yourself with T results in E floating around through aromatisation, And they don't wanna grow boobs so they block it binding on those receptors.
They were originally invented for older women With osteoporosis whom it's considered reckless to prescribe estrogen because estrogen of course encourages cells in the breasts to divide, and in older ladies this encourages the formation of tumors which sucks.
However they also have roles in cancer Chemotherapy symptom management

That drug sounds ideal for your situation but I'm not a real doctor I'm just a Biology & Medicine fan/student Never the less you might want to research it yourself and suggest it to your doctor when your bone pain becomes too bad.

Quote from: MissAshley on June 08, 2010, 12:22:07 PM
Have you heard of this theory?

Weird.  I have had a similar theory about the toxicity of testosterone in mtfs, just from my own observation of things.  I disagree with the idea that it's due to testosterone converting to estradiol or that estrogen is related to a desire to crossdress or any of that.  How is that even a logical conclusion when you have people getting on estrogen and then feeling like they could be fine living as a male?

I think they start getting near the truth toward the end of the article, possibly hinting at the very cause of dysphoria itself.

Quote
It is beyond dispute that there are both androgen and estrogen receptors in the brain. Genetic males normally have more active androgen receptors than women and women have more active estrogen receptors then men. That this normal distribution of estrogen and androgen receptor cells can be different in some individuals appears to be a possibility. It therefore follows that androgenic and estrogenic compounds will result in a modified-to-counter expected behavior in affected individuals.

From my own POV this is probably the real issue.  I think this is one area at least where dysphoria comes from.

Anything that reminds a mtf's brain that their station in life is anything but female will set off dysphoria, and it's the dysphoria that makes us feel like "this is all wrong" which compels us to try to correct it in whatever way we can.  I believe our brains have an subconscious awareness of the hormones they receive, sort of to go along with the text I quoted, and when the sex hormones register as being the "wrong mix" it triggers dysphoria in the worst way.  I believe this is why Alan Turing committed suicide after being put on estrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing), and why you have, as described in that linked theory, people getting on hormones and deciding they feel okay, detransitioning and then feeling bad again.  I think of a recent case that was in the news of a sports writer that transitioned, detransitioned and then committed suicide.  I believe, tragically, this person might have been saved if they had simply continued taking spiro after their detransition.

Just my theory...

All I really know is my own experience, which was that HRT had an immediate and profound affect on my mood, before any physical changes could even think about occurring.  I know that just eliminating testosterone wouldn't be enough to make life bearable for me now because I still get totally messed up with dysphoria even though I'm on HRT and I live all the time as female, but my resolve against dysphoria has pretty much broken down completely over the years.  I used to be able to deal with it much better.  This is why I think dysphoria has a sort of erosive effect on the strength of ones resolve against it.  I do wonder if I had started on spiro earlier if I could have been able to not transition and be fine.  It's a weird thing to think about to be honest.

Anyway, I think it's a possible consideration for people that don't want to transition, for whatever reason they may have.