I'm at work.  I just asked my workmate if she had heard rumours about me.  She had, so I said it's all true.  I can tell she thinks it's weird because last year we had a friendship based on America's Next Top Model and Gossip Girl, two things I still enjoy!

I didn't really get to tell her much.  How do you defend this sort of stuff to people?

I guess they'll take me seriously once I have hair sprouting in new places and a deep voice.  I feel like everyone still sees me as a girl.  My new flatmate called me Missy today. Crushed. The majority of my friends seem to be at the point where they call me Eli but still use female pronouns. I know some of it is just programmed in but I think I need to make a royal proclamation.

hmm...i'm wondering this too (i love americas next top model!)..cause i like some 'girly' stuff and such (my one random neon unicorn blacklight poster haha, even though he looks badass). i guess i don't really have much advice but would like to see what others have to say.

but i mean, i'd think most people when they see a guy likes something considered 'feminine' or w/e would think it's more of a gay thing. still i've known plenty of manly cis straight guys that have a random interest thats totally out of left field and not manly at all -shrug-

btw i can't imagine people using female pronouns with you! even like how sometimes people do it on accident with transexuals, i dont think i'd ever accidently say it since everything about you just screams male my mind wouldnt mess up that way, lol.

It's annoying right, if a cisguy likes Top Model they won't go OH YR A GIRL THEN, just maybe say they're gay.  I find it so annoying that people might be questioning my transition, say because I have a collection of ceramic deer.

And yeah, I'm gonna have to have another word with people about the pronoun thing. I guess it's just because I only came out at the beginning of the year, so people who have called me she for ages need to adjust.  I was being understanding but I can't stand it any longer.  Maybe I'll get a t-shirt printed with HE on it!

I never had particularly girl interests. My voice is masculine and I have a goatee and I do not wear anything like make up or skinny jeans. But I am sensitive and like cute animals, and Im kind of a wuss. I don't really have a problem being told I'm too feminine, for me its that Im not masculine enough in the eyes of my family, which to me is worse :/
Still, the concept of being trans is so confusing that it doesn't really grasp their minds unless they open up and do some thinking outside the box.

You know, I was just thinking about this today. I have no idea how you defend yourself in these situations, but I can sort of manage to turn it around so maybe people will understand it better; you could try that maybe. I recently bought two rabbits, and my mum said that my dad had said "it's not very boy-like, wanting pet rabbits" EVEN THOUGH he had tons of rabbits and birds and all sorts of pets as a child, and even as an adult, and it doesn't make him any sort of woman.

The animal thing is weird.  Like I love cats, have two of them and talk about them all the time.  But I actually know way way more crazy cat men, then I do crazy cat ladies.  My dad is one of them.  His cat Malkovich is his life. He talks about him endlessly, complains about the price of cat food, complains about Malk's eating habits, left me a really long message about his trip to the vet etc etc.

My cousin Peter used to have rabbits living free range in his house! He's in his 40s and a successful lawyer.

A lot of my family were brought up around animals, and my dad was never allowed to have any in his house as a child, so we had to have loads of everything. It makes me sad to see it as kind of being used against me though, almost as if to 'prove me wrong', it's like a horrible double-standard.

That's what I hate. They would never pull this stuff on cis guys, I'm sick of having to prove myself.  I wish they'd just go, what are you some sort of HOMO? I'd like that just fine.

Quote from: Berren on June 12, 2010, 08:24:38 PM
You know, I was just thinking about this today. I have no idea how you defend yourself in these situations, but I can sort of manage to turn it around so maybe people will understand it better; you could try that maybe. I recently bought two rabbits, and my mum said that my dad had said "it's not very boy-like, wanting pet rabbits" EVEN THOUGH he had tons of rabbits and birds and all sorts of pets as a child, and even as an adult, and it doesn't make him any sort of woman.

Chances are your dad is using this as an excuse to deny your identity. I personally would love bunnies :3

Quote from: Kyle XD on June 12, 2010, 08:42:22 PM
Chances are your dad is using this as an excuse to deny your identity. I personally would love bunnies :3

That's pretty much it, yeah. He seems to think that one day I'll wake up and realise I actually do want to be a woman. Pfft.
And yes rabbets are adorable. The two I have are 10-12 week old and so shy and soft. Love them to pieces already.

Quote from: Berren on June 12, 2010, 09:05:24 PM
That's pretty much it, yeah. He seems to think that one day I'll wake up and realise I actually do want to be a woman. Pfft.
And yes rabbets are adorable. The two I have are 10-12 week old and so shy and soft. Love them to pieces already.

Ha my mom thinks the same thing. My girlfriend has a bunny. She loves that thing more than me. I can't have one cuz my moms allergic. But someday....

Quote from: Kyle XD on June 12, 2010, 09:13:40 PM
Ha my mom thinks the same thing. My girlfriend has a bunny. She loves that thing more than me. I can't have one cuz my moms allergic. But someday....

My mum has openly said that she's accepting of whatever I do, which I'm grateful for. It's just a shame I'm not able to be open about everything with my dad. Aww, is it a house rabbit? All the previous rabbits we've had have belonged to my siblings/my dad, but thse two are mine to look after. :0

Quote from: Berren on June 12, 2010, 09:20:17 PM
My mum has openly said that she's accepting of whatever I do, which I'm grateful for. It's just a shame I'm not able to be open about everything with my dad. Aww, is it a house rabbit? All the previous rabbits we've had have belonged to my siblings/my dad, but thse two are mine to look after. :0

Yeah it's a house rabbit. His name's Peanut and hes cookie dough colored. She gets them from a slaughterhouse because theyre cheaper and they save their lives by buying them. Shes trying to convince her mom to let her get a female so they can have babies. Shell have a million by september 0_0

Eli, I don't think you can defend yourself.  I used to get pissed off when that happened to me, but it's your interests and hobbies. Obviously not going to change them and don't try to overcompensate.  I know how difficult it is, but you really just have to say 'screw it' and move on.  People still say that crap to me and I've been on T for almost a year.  You're probably going to have to deal with this for years.  My mom always tells me "well REAL men don't wear/watch/enjoy that so you shouldn't do it."  Whatever.  I wear tight clothes, listen to dance music, and love americas next top model and I'm a man.  Just try to forget the idiots.

if someone doesn't agree with you transitioning, they'll find anything they can to show how "unmanly" you are.. because you're still not a man in their eyes anyways. screw people, they're not stuck in the wrong body, we are.. I say get the shirt, I'm about ready to marker it on my forehead for the day.. Mom won't have an excuse then

Quote from: Evan on June 12, 2010, 10:35:11 PM
if someone doesn't agree with you transitioning, they'll find anything they can to show how "unmanly" you are.. because you're still not a man in their eyes anyways. screw people, they're not stuck in the wrong body, we are.. I say get the shirt, I'm about ready to marker it on my forehead for the day.. Mom won't have an excuse then

^ This is probably the reason behind it.

Also, just thought I'd say that Russell Crowe (Gladiator - actor) knits when he is bored and was often seen knitting while on set of his films. Now knitting would be considered an extremely feminine hobby. I think he said his Grandma taught him as a child. Now isn't that cool?

I don't think anyone would dare call Russell unmanly or gay even. 

I have a rabbit she is a house bunny but I do have alot of pets incluing 5 aquariums my biggest is 4ft, gerbils, 5 spiny mice, and 4 differnt types of stick insects (lost count on how many I have lol) + a dog who lives with my parents cause no dogs are aloud in the building although we are going to be changing landlords soon so I will write to them when it happens and plead my case to try and be able to have a dog here.  I suffer from depression and at one point before I even moved into where I'm living right now my dog was the ONLY thing getting me out the house if it wasn't for him bugging me to take him for walks when it was time I would have just stayed in all he time.
I'm also very sensitive and went to art college for about 4 years, and I have also been thinking about my collection of abjd's (asain ball jointed dolls) yes they are dolls hardly a manly thing to have but then again I'm not getting rid of them ok so its kind of gay for a guy to have dolls right well thats ok cause I like men so call me a ->-bleeped-<- lol, I'm quite a big stocky looking guy not your typical camp queen type.

"normals"?

I don't know. My closest friends are fairly queer-aware, and they tend to take me more seriously the more I show that I'm just being myself and not trying to fit some kind of stereotype. Other than my husband I haven't come out to anyone who has any kind of investment in me being female, and with my (very straight) husband I'm inclined to pretty much let him think what he wants.

But I do think the best defense is basically to get people to be a little more introspective and realize that they and their friends aren't stereotypes either - that your "feminine" interests, like theirs, are just part of being a real and authentic individual.

It's kinda hard to explain to people. I've been in this situation many times. I normally don't mention my "feminine" interests (as you put it) in conversation unless it comes up, in which case I don't mind discussing it. Just try to explain that just because you like some supposedly feminine things, doesn't mean that you're not a guy.

If you're feeling adventurous, you can try and do what Ron White did (proving that everyone is a little bit gay)! Man, that would be funny! (If you don't know, look it up)

At any rate, even if they don't listen, remember yourself that it doesn't make you any less of a guy. After all, gender roles are defined by society.