Yeah, it's good that I'm straight.

From my own perspective I think it is partly a question of conditioning and what you have tried and liked.

The fact that in my early life my somewhat ambiguous state lead me to be actively encouraged to experiment probably made identifying as bisexual more attractive.

If I had been born unambiguously female I would almost certainly never have tried a sexual encounter with a woman and therefore I would have identified happily as straight. In view of the social stigma towards same sex attractions I would simply have never chosen to try it, however having had that experience I would be silly to put the genie back into the bottle just for the sake of appearances - so I end up identifying as bi.

What I am saying is I think that it may be as simple as the statistics being artificially skewed towards bisexual and gay identification by our prior social conditioning.

Quote from: rejennyrated on June 30, 2010, 07:52:35 AM

What I am saying is I think that it may be as simple as the statistics being artificially skewed towards bisexual and gay identification by our prior social conditioning.

So is what you are saying: The reason why there are so few bisexual and gay identifying people in society at large is because of the social stigma preventing them from accepting/experimenting/understanding/knowing about their sexuality?

I think this is a pretty reasonable premise, but I wish there was a way to test it, but unless someone could get a pretty large sample group and somehow get them away from prejudice and stigma involving sexual preference and see how they develop.

Alyssa- I see what you mean.  I'm in a different boat with my sexuality, but I can relate to gender identity affecting it.

Avoiding TMI zone here, lol, but I could never imagine being with a guy before transition because a man would only remind me that my own body was wrong.  With women I would try to experience it vicariously through them, and I dunno if you've ever tried that, but it doesn't really work lol.  Also, it's mentally exhausting!  I hated sex because it took too much brain power lol, and also because of the inherent dishonesty that was going on.

My sexuality before transition was such a mess I still haven't quite made sense of it.  Fortunately, it really doesn't bother me much.  I was confused, so what?

I am with Jenny on this, I would have had no confusion with my sexuality, however, if I had been born female.

I have only ever TRULY been attracted to lesbian women. I find straight girls beautiful(don't get me wrong). That was how I knew this couldn't be a coincidence. I was born a man outwardly, but I KNOW I'm not only a woman, but a lesbian as well.

Early on in my transition, I thought that I would end up being attracted to men. At the time, I understood very little about gender identity versus sexual orientation. As time went by, I realized I had not attraction to men, and that my attraction towards women grew stronger. There is no denying that I am a lesbian woman at this point. I have absolutely no desire to be with me at all. I am an out and proud lesbian woman.

It's interesting to hear a lot of different view points here, especially people who talk about not many people being out as gay or lesbian in general in society. I guess I have always lived in more open areas, where I have always known a lot of out gay, lesbian, and bi people. I have always had a significant number of gay and lesbian friends. For me, in my experience, there is little social stigma, and there are a lot of people who are out. This does vary widely depending on where you live, so geography can greatly skew statistics.

Quote from: Jen on June 30, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
...  I could never imagine being with a guy before transition because a man would only remind me that my own body was wrong.  With women I would try to experience it vicariously through them, and I dunno if you've ever tried that, but it doesn't really work lol.  Also, it's mentally exhausting!  I hated sex because it took too much brain power lol, and also because of the inherent dishonesty that was going on.

My sexuality before transition was such a mess I still haven't quite made sense of it.  Fortunately, it really doesn't bother me much.  I was confused, so what?

Wow, Jen. You and I are definitely sharing a wavelength somewhere. I always felt exactly the same.

Nowadays I don't find myself falling neatly within either hetero or homo sexual norms. I like both. That doesn't seem to be changing as I transition. I'm becoming doubtful it ever will. Binaries were never my friend, after all.

Not that it matters much, because I'm in a long-term relationship and happily monogamous. So this is really just a mental exercise for me. But quite honestly I could see myself happy in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex from my current partner just as well. I don't think I'm well served by over-thinking such matters. I wonder how much others who worry about this are helping themselves.

Like many posters before said, i think sex and sexual preference are completely different and determined by a number of factors, even physiology.  Let me give you my case which is unusual, even for me.

I was never gay when i lived as a man, i preferred going out with women although it still felt kind of different.  For example when i see a beautiful girl first i would compare myself to her instantly and feel depressed, then the Testosterone would kick in and even though your depressed, she is hot so lets go for it....  Testosterone is one hell of a drug btw...  The thought of two guys getting it on even now makes me kinda sick, not saying that i have any kind of feelings for people who do that stuff, just not for me.

HOWEVER, after HRT things started to change, i began to lose interest in women and started to be attracted to men.  Its unsual, and i cant explain it, but the more estrogen became the dominant hormone in my system the more i was attracted to men to the point where now going out with guys is as natural to me as going out with girls before.   The reason i am ok with this is because i look like a woman now as well as feel like one, not having to act like a man, so a guy and girl going out is pretty natural. My BF now is straight, which makes me happy because anything that wanders into the gay zone for me makes me lose interest instantly.  He also knows my past, and still wanted to be with me after i told him, which makes him even more special. 

So in my case i was straight as a guy, and now I am straight as girl, actually i was lesbian and now straight (since i was always a girl).  So you will end up with what you end up, it doesnt matter because either way it will feel normal to you, and thats what is important.

I know this is slightly of topic, but just to reply to Diana, transition has helped remove the ambiguity in my sexuality.  I think mostly just being in the correct role has given me a clearer picture because the friction I described in the last post is no more, plus maybe hormones had something to do with it as well.

Anyway, I find myself a fully hetero woman nowadays.  I am not one of those binary proponents, I love diversity in all it's wafting complexities.  The lot I was dealt, however, seems to have me fitting neatly into the binary anyway.

To me, I also really want to know if  I am a lesbian or straight girl, I can see my sex orientation is changing from woman to man while I am become more complete as woman. when I were pre-transition, I couldn't image I have sex with man as a man, but I feel sweet when I imaged I have sex with man as woman. does it mean I am straight? I am not sure now. I like to settle my sex identity first, which is the foundation to me, then I will settle my orientation, One by one. I seems pretty bad at multi-tasking, at least for sex issue.    Honestly,  I really like to know the answer NOW 

Patience is not an easy virtue to have, but you will find your clarity eventually.

I could see a lot of my own experience in your post, the only real difference is the fact that I wasn't attracted to girls became clear very quickly, but like you, whether I liked men came a bit slower.  Now there is no doubt about it anymore.

I am still rather taken aback that a lot of people get twisted over sexuality. Homophobia should be so last century, and what a lot of people seem to be talking about seems to stem from homophobia, or an inability to see past your own attractions.

I've felt I was straight, and now I feel I am gay, but in all instances it was with women. Interestingly the sex is very different and the attraction has changed tone since taking hormones, but I love women as much as ever. They are what get me hot and bothered.

Really I think all you can do is allow yourself to be attracted to who you are attracted to. Try them out for size. I think many of us don't realise that even straight girls get crushes on girls and straight guys with other guys and it does not make you gay. So many straight girls have a pash with their friends at the pub and they are not gay. I think this confuses things when you are unsure of your sexuality.

I fell in love a guy once and we could of had a fantastic homosexual relationship, thats what it would have felt like at the time. But in general guys don't float my boat, but I am attracted to being able to play a traditional female roll with a guy. As it is I found a woman who allows me the same feeling.

I do think sexuality and gender and behavior are related. You can't help but notice how fem many gay guys are or how masculine some gay women are. you don't get the same proportion of femy straight guys or really butch straight women. Sure, it could just be socialization, but so many gay people end up flaming despite their upbringing. I think it suggests that there is a correlation between gender behavior and sexuality, perhaps even identity and sexuality. You can't help but notice that most cis people are straight identified. Perhaps there are a lot of people who might fit in the 'bi curious' category but social pressure stops it. I suspect that there are a lot of people that are shades of pink, but not so strongly they feel conflicted over it.

The brain is not a hard and fast thing and it is in a finely tuned balance. It is not surprising that one aspect probably impacts on others. I suspect that similar mechanisms are at play that affect sexuality and gender identity. Just as sexuality is not always black and white neither is gender. Our gendered parts are at odds with our bodies, but perhaps the parts related to sexuality actually tend to correlate more with our birth bodies, i.e. if you have a male body to begin with you are more likely to be attracted to women, hence trans people are more likely to be gay than cis people.

I have a sneaking suspicion that those who are very strongly identified as straight, like on the edge of the spectrum (assuming there is one), will be in similar proportions to those who are strongly identified as gay. The rest of us probably just float more towards one end or the other and it is more convenient just to go with that end. Many people are just not open to other possibilities and they don't need to be as long as they are getting relationships that work for them.

Good post Nicky. I'll second that.

Quote from: amandax on July 07, 2010, 11:23:00 PM
To me, I also really want to know if  I am a lesbian or straight girl, I can see my sex orientation is changing from woman to man while I am become more complete as woman. when I were pre-transition, I couldn't image I have sex with man as a man, but I feel sweet when I imaged I have sex with man as woman. does it mean I am straight? I am not sure now. I like to settle my sex identity first, which is the foundation to me, then I will settle my orientation, One by one. I seems pretty bad at multi-tasking, at least for sex issue.    Honestly,  I really like to know the answer NOW 

Thats exactly how it was for me, when i started i could see both but the longer i was on hormones, and the lower my testosterone got the more it switched to men exclusively.  The important thing to me was pre-transition i too couldnt see myself with a man, however the thought of woman and man being together was always pleasant and i am a woman after all. 
As my thoughts of being with women lessened i feared that i couldnt be with a man because the thought of gay intimacy was not appetizing to me, but happily i found out that not only did being with a man feel more normal then being with a woman before but i was also more of a woman when loved by a man because i could show more of myself openly. 

The only issue for me, is if gets into a  "Gay" zone, if it feels like that at all, it ends, at least for me, i am not interested.  Since my BF is straight guy it never gets there, so i am happy and he is happy.   To him hes just a guy dating the girl he loves, and to me i am a girl dating the guy i love.  So far so good after 8 months.

A couple of you have mentioned this. Could you describe the "Gay" zone? Do you mean sex acts or something different? Is there something where you can tell you're being treated like a guy?

Quote from: Nero on July 08, 2010, 01:16:06 PM
A couple of you have mentioned this. Could you describe the "Gay" zone? Do you mean sex acts or something different? Is there something where you can tell you're being treated like a guy?

Its like anytime your asked to do something that a normal woman would be incapable or not want to do... An example would be to make love to a guy like a guy makes love to a girl.  Also, i have been intimate and i am pre-op, but the only way i can enjoy any of it is to imagine all my parts are different downstairs wise and to do this i have to close my eyes, because if for any instant i see anything male that is part of my body, thats the end of it, i just cant continue.  Right now i prefer not to be intimate until SRS, where i can fully enjoy the experience.

As I am married to the love of my life I have sex. It isn't ideal in it's curent form but GRS is on the horizon...

I highly doubt I would be sexualy active if I wasn't married to my wife Sevan. As my spouse is an androgyne I think that makes it much easier. A cismale or cisfemale would probably trigger me alot more than I already have to deal with, and that would make sex impossible.

Quote from: Izumi on July 08, 2010, 01:26:55 PMIts like anytime your asked to do something that a normal woman would be incapable or not want to do... An example would be to make love to a guy like a guy makes love to a girl.

Yeah, I hear you. Most normal women I know aren't interested in smelly, hairy, clumsy, impatient sex partners either, and neither am I. I'm much more interested in the kind of sex that normal lesbian women have with each other. 

Seriously, intentional misinterpretations notwithstanding, I still don't get if you're being dysphoric or just plain homophobic. This business about "normal women" seems to imply the latter, but I'm guessing it's a combination. I don't care what turns you on; it really makes no difference to me -- though I'm certainly happy that you're willing to share the implications of your transition on your sexuality.

But you leave me with the impression, as do many others who have commented in this thread, that you have a problem with lesbians, gay men, bi- or pan-sexual people, and other people you don't regard as having "normal" sexuality.

I hope that I am mistaken.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 08, 2010, 02:49:09 PM
But you leave me with the impression, as do many others who have commented in this thread, that you have a problem with lesbians, gay men, bi- or pan-sexual people, and other people you don't regard as having "normal" sexuality.

I hope that I am mistaken.

I have no problem with them what-so-ever.  Just like you feel being with a man is distasteful to you, i also see two men or two women getting it on as something i dont want to try or get remotely into, its a personal thing, i have gay and lesbian friends, i dont care what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms, they are free to do so, they understand that i am not into that, and we still get along great.  I like people for who they are, and their personal lives are their own. 

Do i believe in LGB rights, sure i do, everyone should be treated fairly, there is no excuse for discriminating based on bias alone, without some kind of proof they are hurting others by the act.

I do agree with some people that sexuality is probably tangentially related to gender just because before transition I could not have made sex work with a guy and I think my dysphoria was a part of that, certainly not fear of being gay.  So I don't really think that belief on it's own implies homophobia, phrases like "normal women" on the other hand... lol

A quick digression, I think the reason the murkiness of my sexuality in the past doesn't bother me is I could care less if I turned out to be a lesbian.

Anyway, the proof gender and sexuality are not directly related is similar to what Nicky said, flaming gay guys see themselves as men, butch lesbians see themselves as women.