There's something that I've heard of called natural transitioning but only know of one person who has ever been successful and satisfied with natural transition. I wanted to know if anybody had experience with natural transitioning or could provide their take on it. I tried doing the diet, and taking some supplements for a few weeks and shortly after had the period that never ended. It lead me to believe that maybe "natural transition" just wasn't for me.

I tried it for a couple of months but it didn't really do much for me.. it takes a ton of dedication and self-discipline IMO and the changes take more time to happen. If it's the only option for a perosn, then of course I'd suggest it, but for me, injections are the way to go. There's a guy on youtube (TristanSkye79) who does natural transitioning if you want to check his videos out.

Yea, he's the only guy I've ever seen with a positive experience and good results.

Perhaps quite a negative post, but I really don't think that natural transitioning does much. That guy on YouTube just looked like any other pre-T guy to me.
Either way, if you do it properly it'll only do your body good.

He now has long sideburns and one of those beards that's mostly the underside of the chin...kinda like a goatee.

Quote from: Ryan on July 17, 2010, 03:52:10 PM
Perhaps quite a negative post, but I really don't think that natural transitioning does much. That guy on YouTube just looked like any other pre-T guy to me.
Either way, if you do it properly it'll only do your body good.

I feel the same way. I mean, if you do it right, it'll be good for your body...

I've seen his videos, and he does seem pre-T to me. I don't think it can be used as a replacement for actual T, but it's not a bad idea to go through with it either.

It's possible that he's had the changes the whole time (at least in terms of facial hair) but kept his face clean shaven.

do i need to register to his website/blog thing in order to read up how "natural transition" works?

I haven't been able to get on T yet, so have been taking supplements since January.  It's only recently I've started seeing any changes...a bit more hair and more muscle mass, without even really trying.  Also an increase in girth (and possibly length) of the, er, junk.  Voice seems a bit deeper too (I've been keeping recordings) but that could be because I've gotten used to trying to keep my voice lower. 

Speaking for myself and any other guys who have no idea what you are talking about, what is "natural transition"? What are the supplements that you are talking about?

Quote from: Yakshini on July 17, 2010, 11:23:49 PM
Speaking for myself and any other guys who have no idea what you are talking about, what is "natural transition"? What are the supplements that you are talking about?

It's basically transitioning by the means of working out and eating certain foods to boost testosterone. Personally, I think you'd be hard pressed to increase your testosterone effectively by that method.

Taken from TransQueer Nation, which is a website run by Tristan Skye:

QuoteNatural Transitioning™ was founded by Tristan and Sicily Skye and it's what we label the process of transitioning from female to male (FtM) by raising the testosterone levels your body naturally produces, without injecting testosterone or other methods.

NT was an idea one day behind the mastermind of Sicily Skye who has been in the world of bodybuilding for almost a decade. Through bodybuilding, Sicily learned the science of manipulating your body to produce the results you want if you have enough dedication, will-power and knowledge. It's crucial to know your body and what works for you and against you. Tristan agreed to follow Sicily's regimen and he then researched the natural supplements of the bodybuilding world that would help boost the levels of testosterone naturally. Over a trial and error process, together they formulated a plan that works and has had proven results for a growing number of transmen. As with T, the speed of this process is dependent on the individual's genetics and how low or high their T levels are to begin with. Some may have results faster than others. Also, it's a 3 step process. If you choose only to do 1 or 2 of the 3, your results will more likely be limited and slower.

This is a an alternative option for transmen who (1) are waiting to start T (2) do not want to take T for any reason *or can't* (3) have been on T and want to try a different option

http://www.transqueernation.com/page/natural-transitioning-an-ftm

I'm not 100% sure because I've only heard of one guy doing it but it's pretty much taking supplements, changing your diet, and doing a bunch of exercise. Doing those things together increases the amount of testosterone your body produces and gives a more masculine physique. There's a whole bunch of supplements like tribulus terrestris, ZMA, and I think stuff to help liver function. I don't have a list or anything.

I'm pretty sure there's a list of the supplements on the page I linked to.  (or there's a link to the list on that page)

Quote from: LucienOctopus on July 17, 2010, 11:38:28 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a list of the supplements on the page I linked too.  (or there's a link to the list on that page)

You have to join up to see the page, which requires approval from whoever made the page.

he're the list:

QuoteBelow the monthly lists, you will find a guide on what the purpose of each supplement is and what is will do for your body.

NEVER take your supplements on an empty stomach!

First 6 WEEKS:

1. Lipo 6X: Take 1 capsule after breakfast and 1 capsule after lunch
2. ZMA (or) B-6, Zinc, Magnesium: 3 capsules of ZMA OR 15mg of B-6, 450 mg of Magnesium and 30mg of Zinc -- take before bed for best results (or you can choose to split up between lunch and before bed)
3. Tribulus Terrestris (with 40% saponins): 250mg each capsule - take 1 after breakfast, 1 after lunch and 1 before bed
4. DHEA: 25mg before bed (week 1 to 3); 50 mg before bed (week 4 to 6)
5. Milk Thistle: 1 capsule after lunch
6. Fish Oil: 1 capsule after breakfast, 1 after lunch, 1 before bed
7. Flax Seed Oil: 1 after breakfast
8. Allicin Garlic *if you don't eat much garlic*: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
9. Multi-Vitamin: 1 capsule after your meal of choice (pref before noon)
10. Dandelion: 1 capsule after lunch

SECOND 6 WEEKS:

1. Hydroxycut Hardcore: Take 1 capsule after breakfast and 1 capsule after lunch
2. ZMA (or) B-6, Zinc, Magnesium: 3 capsules of ZMA OR 15mg of B-6, 450 mg of Magnesium and 30mg of Zinc -- take before bed for best results (or you can choose to split up between lunch and before bed)
3. Tribulus Terrestris (with 40% saponins): 250mg each capsule - take 1 after breakfast, 1 after lunch and 1 before bed
4. DHEA: 25 mg after lunch, 50 mg before bed
5. Milk Thistle: 1 capsule after lunch
6. Dandelion: 1 capsule after lunch
7. Fish Oil: 1 capsule after breakfast, 1 after lunch, 1 before bed
8. Flax Seed Oil: 1 after breakfast
9. Allicin Garlic *if you don't eat much garlic*: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
10. Multi-Vitamin: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
11. Cryotest OR Novedex XT (take as directed)


THIRD 6 WEEKS:

1. Animal CUTS: Take packet once per day
2. Animal M-STAK: Take packet before working out *only take if you want to gain more muscle*
3. ZMA (or) B-6, Zinc, Magnesium: 3 capsules of ZMA OR 15mg of B-6, 450 mg of Magnesium and 30mg of Zinc -- take before bed for best results (or you can choose to split up between lunch and before bed)
4. Tribulus Terrestris (with 40% saponins): 250mg each capsule - take 1 after breakfast, 2 after lunch and 1 before bed
5. DHEA: 25 mg after lunch, 100 mg before bed
6. Milk Thistle: 2 capsule after lunch
7. Dandelion: 2 capsule after lunch
8. Fish Oil: 1 capsule after breakfast, 1 after lunch, 1 before bed
9. Flax Seed Oil: 1 after breakfast
10. Allicin Garlic *if you don't eat much garlic*: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
11. Multi-Vitamin: 1 capsule after your meal of choice


FOURTH 6 WEEKS & BEYOND:

1. Animal Cuts OR Lipo 6X OR Hydroxycut OR Meltdown - or other similar fat burner: Rotate/Cycle fat burners every 6 weeks - do not take the same one for more than 6 weeks or your body will become immune to it.
2. Novedex XT OR Anabolic Signal OR Animal M-STAK OR CryoTest -- Adding and cycling in these T boosters will have greater effect, but you will need to monitor yourself closer. You MUST cycle/rotate every 6 weeks. Like the fat burners, do not take the same one for more than 6 weeks. If these "xtras" are proving to have a negative effect on you, stop using immediately.
3. L-Glutamine: Add 1 tbsp. of powder to your drink you take with you to the gym
4. ZMA (or) B-6, Zinc, Magnesium: 3 capsules of ZMA OR 15mg of B-6, 450 mg of Magnesium and 30mg of Zinc -- take before bed for best results (or you can choose to split up between lunch and before bed)
5. Tribulus Terrestris (with 40% saponins): 250mg each capsule - take 1 after breakfast, 2 after lunch and 2 before bed
6. DHEA: 50 mg after lunch, 100 mg before bed
7. Milk Thistle: 2 capsule after lunch
8. Dandelion: 2 capsule after lunch
9. Fish Oil: 1 capsule after breakfast, 1 after lunch, 1 before bed
10. Flax Seed Oil: 1 after breakfast
11. Allicin Garlic *if you don't eat much garlic*: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
12. Multi-Vitamin: 1 capsule after your meal of choice
13. Animal FLEX -- esp if lifting heavy in gym
14. Creatine -- take as directed -- take for 6 weeks, then do NOT take for 6 weeks (cycle on and OFF of this)


Fat Burners (Lipo 6X, Redline, etc.) -- these help you lose excess body fat. It is a proven FACT that the more body fat you have, the more estrogen you produce. The less body fat and more lean muscle you have, the more testosterone your body will produce.

ZMA (patented abbreviation for Zinc-monomethionine-aspartat) -- ZMA is a combination of B-6, Magnesium and Zinc and the combination of these three natural ingredients in precise amounts, work together to significantly raise testosterone levels. ZMA can raise natural testosterone levels overnight by as much as 30 percent.

Tribulus Terrestris ("TT") -- The ancient Greeks used it as a diuretic. The Bulgarians were more open about there purpose: they used it as a potent sex-enhancer. And in this century natural healers used it to enhance mood and cure depression. TT works its magic by stimulating the anterior pituitary to produce LH (luteinizing hormone) which is responsible for "telling" your body to produce testosterone.

DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone)-- This is the MOST POTENT supplement I have encountered so far and is the primary one that will also help with facial/body hair production and helps deepen your voice. Negative effects I have experienced with DHEA are as follows: Acne on face, shoulders and back - anxiety levels elevated - quick tempered reaction - more prone to mood swings. This should not be handled lightly, and though it will give you the best results, there is a reason why it is illegal in some countries. DHEA is the "first cousin" of ANDRO (which was THE most popular T booster, that has now been made illegal). DHEA is converted to ANDRO (androstenedione) and then testosterone. A bill was actually introduced, in March 2007, in the U.S. Senate (S. 762) that attempts to classify DHEA as a controlled substance under the category of anabolic steroids -- so I don't know how long this will remain legal in the USA. DHEA is a prohibited substance under the World Anti-Doping Code of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Dandelion -- Excellent for cleansing the kidney and works as a diuretic agent to help flush out toxins without the loss of potassium. Reduces kidney inflammation and infection. It prevents kidney stone formation and may be the solution for small kidney stone removal.

Fish Oil -- Fish oil is oil derived from the tissues of oily fish. It is recommended for a healthy diet because it contains the omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), precursors to eicosanoids that reduce inflammation throughout the body. Why is this stuff so important?? Because it is known to help keep you calm, more alert and your mood swings to lessen while your T is boosting. It also helps people with ADHD and who suffer from depression.

Flax Seed Oil -- Flaxseed oil and flaxseed contain substances that promote good health. One of these substances is alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), an essential fatty acid that appears to be beneficial for heart disease, inflammatory bowel disease, arthritis, and other health conditions. Flaxseed, in addition to ALA, contains a group of chemicals called lignans that may play a role in the prevention of cancer.

Milk Thistle -- Research suggests that milk thistle extracts both prevent and repair damage to the liver from toxic chemicals and medications. Milk thistle has been reported to have protective effects on the liver and to greatly improve its function. It is typically used to treat liver cirrhosis, chronic hepatitis (liver inflammation), toxin-induced liver damage (including the prevention of severe liver damage from Amanita phalloides (death cap) mushroom poisoning), and gallbladder disorders. THIS IS IMPORTANT because many supplements are converted into testosterone in your liver, just an FYI.

Allicin Garlic -- Garlic is one of the the best natural ways to raise testosterone levels because it contains a strong compound called allicin that can increase the levels of the testosterone hormone. Allicin breaks down easily, so make sure you eat real garlic -- don't take supplements that don't have any active allicin left.

L-Glutamine -- Glutamine has also been taken to enhance brain function as it fuels two of the brain's most important neurotransmitters: glutamic acid and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). It also assists in nitrogen transportation and reduces toxic build up of ammonia in the brain. Hence, it has been used to aid memory, increase IQ in those with mental retardation, and to support people with schizophrenia and senility. It has also been used in the treatment of ADHD, anxiety, and depression. It has also been used in recovery programs to break sugar craving cycles in alcoholics and assist diabetics in the management of sugar cravings. It is also used as an anti-inflammatory in the treatment of autoimmune diseases and preserves Glutathione (important for detoxification and immune support) levels in the liver.

The "Xtras" T Boosters *also these are ESTROGEN BLOCKERS*--
1. Novedex XT™ increases bioavailable testosterone significantly higher (over 400%) and faster (within 2 weeks) than any other testosterone booster in the supplement industry - and with only a fraction of the dosage used by the leading brand! If this were not enough, the study also revealed that Novedex XT™ was so effective at combating estrogen that estradiol was slashed an average of more than 50% in all subjects tested in just the 1st week! With this unprecedented 1-2 punch, this product is easily the most effective natural vehicle to trigger a potent anabolic response in order to help gain lean mass, strength and endurance while also helping to reduce body fat.
2. Animal M Stack is a powerful, natural anabolic training pak whose time has come. Thanks to Universal Nutrition's research and development efforts and recent discoveries, Animal Methoxy Stak was born. Animal M Stak mimics the effects of anabolic pharmaceuticals by dramatically enhancing protein synthesis, nitrogen retention (positive nitrogen balance), and nutrition-partitioning, while simultaneously reducing muscle wasting. How? Animal M Stak can help potentiate your body's production of all five anabolic hormones: (1) Testosterone; (2) Human Growth Hormone (hGH); (3) Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1); (4) Luteinizing Hormone (LH); and (5) Insulin. Best of all, Animal M Stak can do this without the androgenic side-effects associated with prohormone use or even over-stressing the liver. But Animal M Stak is more than just an anabolic primer. It can help your body block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen and dihydrotestosterone (DHT); support your liver; increase energy for unreal performance; and provide key vitamin and mineral support for your growing muscles. If you want to be an Animal, you've got to train like one. Now, you can without all the prohormones or ephedra.
3. Anabolic Signal -- A Powerful Anabolic, Testosterone Booster, And Anti-Estrogenic Formula!

Creatine -- *it is a MUST to cycle this every 6 weeks if you choose to use it* Simply put, creatine monohydrate is the most popular and effective bodybuilding supplement on the market. Creatine is bodybuilding's ultimate supplement, and for good reason. For one thing, creatine can significantly increase lean muscle mass in just two weeks. It is also responsible for improving performance in high-intensity exercise, increasing energy levels, and speeding up recovery rates. It's no wonder athletes who use it have such of an edge over those who do not. Soon nearly every athlete who competes will use it (if they don't already). Creatine's ability to enhance energy reserves in muscles comes from its muscle protein synthesizing action, while minimizing protein breakdown. This occurs because creatine has the awesome effect of super-hydrating muscle cells with water. It enhances muscles' growth too-making muscle fibers bigger and stronger.

So, what is creatine? Our bodies naturally make the compound, which is used to supply energy to our muscles. It is produced in the liver, pancreas, and kidneys, and is transported to the body's muscles through the bloodstream. Once it reaches the muscles, it is converted into phosphocreatine (creatine phosphate). This high-powered metabolite is used to regenerate the muscles' ultimate energy source, ATP (adenosine triphosphate).

after reading through it a bit.....i'm not sure it's a good idea to take such a mulitude of supplements as prescribed by someone who's neither a doctor nor a pharmacologist...
also not sure if some of the combinations even make sense at all. when i'm taking fat burners but at the same time taking flax seed oil, i might just as well take neither

Flaxseed oil is full of essential fatty acids - all very good for your body - quite different from the fats you want to get rid of when toning your body. Taking fat burners at the same time as EFA isn't as contradictory as it may seem.

Like someone said - incredible devotion to this needed, and also a LOT of cash. These supplements are costly (I used to work in a shop that sold this kind of stuff...pricey).

Just a side word on the ZMA - should be taken with a meal (I'm surprised it's recommended without on that list) or you'll have the mother of all stomach-aches.

Would it work?? I can see where the guy who's developed this regime is coming from, but in my opinion it sounds like a slow, painful, expensive process. Just my opinion.

On his website he states that the amount this guy pays for in supplements is about the same as somebody would pay for T. He also does it under a doctor's supervision.

Fair point re: cost. T is available on prescription in UK.

The amount of dedication this dude brings to the table is admirable but it is an excerize in self control most can not come up to.
I would just go the T route and join a gym personaly (were I FTM). All those suplements gotta play hell on the gut.