Very good post Cami, and I agree with it completely. What you write may seem like a harsh thing to say, but sometimes the "tough love" approach is necessary. Many people, from any and all walks of life, seem to get stuck in this rut of complaining about everything until it gets to the point that every time they open their mouths, it's to gripe and bitch about something. I work with a man like that, and have had to tell him many times to just shut up or find someone else to bitch to, because I don't want to hear it any more. You can only hear constant complaints from the same person for so long before it becomes old and tired.

Someone once said, when something bad happens and you get knocked down, there are generally two responses: one person will pick themselves up, learn from the experience and move on, the other type will stay down and complain, looking for someone to point their finger at for every little thing that goes wrong.

That's very true, whether we're talking about people transitioning or not. It happens all the time everywhere. Some just seem to live to be miserable and I've even seen some that seem to go out of their way to find something to be miserable about.

When it comes to transition, figure out what you need to do, how you need to do it, then make a plan and stick to it. If transition can't happen right now, then make the best of the situation while you are living it. Find something to enjoy, things to do that you like, and just live your life. Once you can transition, go forward boldly and unapologetically. However, don't make excuses, don't shift blame, and don't be bitter and cruel. It's nobodies fault that we are trans, and it won't do any good to make examples of people or get on our own high-horse.

The advice some were giving you about getting him fired could have simply escalated the problem, since a person's livelihood is also their life in many cases. If you lost him his job over it he could have done worse to retaliate. I think you handled the situation beautifully, and I commend you. You kept your head, and you stayed pure and true in your goals and beliefs without reducing yourself to his level.

~April

^ I must say that even though its certainly not good to stay in a victim state, that it can be hard if you are an emotional person.  Sometimes I'm more practical and stable, and then I could be able to see where I am, where I want to go, and do what I need to do.  However, as I have experience in, if one is in a state of being more emotional and negative, or emotionally unstable, It's really damn hard to be able to pick oneself up, especially if there are other factors in like continual disappointment, having a history of being burned by people, etc...   Once again, I'm not condoning a victim state, yet I don't think its ok to judge people who are in it, who probably need support and reassurance IMO (or at least a mood stabilizer) more than someone to criticize them (this doesn't apply to people who are rather people that complain about this and that for the sake of being judgemental.)

Cami-
Wow! You are one of the many people that make this site worth visiting.
I agree with you that a person really has be prepared to give up everything to transition. But I disagree about your position that we have to make it alone. Perhaps we are arguing semantics, but no man or woman is an island. We need other people to help us along our way.
You were hired as Cami. Someone took a chance on you. According to you, most of your co-workers and customers also get along with you. In fact, you have close girl friends who asked you to go to your employee party. (And of course you have us here.)
I agree with you, we all have to figure out how to pay our bills. But none of us is alone. Isn't that why we have Susan's living room? This is some place to kick off our shoes and share our experiences living our interesting lives.

^ I wanted to leave my mom two and a half years ago, and I was actively trying to build up a support base from within the TG community.  However, my mom found out about me being transgendered and started guilt tripping me, and started making me feel afraid that she'd commit suicide (she talked before of routinely having suicidal thoughts) and I felt alone in dealing with my mom, and everything went into a tailspin (and my whole plans went into a tailspin to this day) because I didn't have enough time to build a good enough support base (I only had two months), because the TG people that I had in the support base (maybe about a dozen or so) at that time didn't do much at all to help or comfort me in dealing with my mom, so I got f***** over because I was going through a crisis and didn't have people to help me cope and deal.  This also made me fearful of leaving my mom, knowing that I wouldn't be able to trust other TG people in helping me and possibly being out alone in the world, which is terrifying IMO.  So that led to periods of resentful denial and trying to pretend to be a cisgendered straight guy and fit in and eventually ended up hating it and getting fed up with pretending, and trying to go back to the TG community, but it also took a toll on me mentally, leading me to be more unsure of myself or "trying to figure what I am to no avail." or even that I have hardly anyone to closely identify with (because I'm not a traditional TS despite my intense want to transition) leading to intense identity instability, leading to frustration and feelings of bleakness about my life and starting to entertain suicidal thoughts.

I wish the TG community were more supportive of each other, given the extreme stuff that TG people have to deal with (and the lack of anybody else to be able to talk with), and when your emotional, you really do need a lot of support to be able to transition (after all, unless your stealth, many of us practically are taking on the world.)

Quote from: Sarah B on July 15, 2010, 06:05:05 PM
In one sense Spacial is correct, however a much more sinister and a better understanding is:

QuoteThey use religion as a political Power tool.

In other words they want to control people, by using religion as their means. 

Kind regards
Sarah B

I can fully accept that sentiment, even with the unfortunate double meaning.

QuoteI agree with you that a person really has be prepared to give up everything to transition.

What about the threat and guilt of possibly destroying your family?  Of possibly your mom committing suicide (because after a life of suffering emotionally, including depression, all she has left in this world are her children) and thus being responsible for your mom's death?  Or to a lesser extent, the guilt of possibly humiliating your parent's and their families when they have to tell their families about their child (coming from an ethnic background like chinese and hispanics that are very traditional and that values males much more than females), or the guilt of "this is how I repay my family after all they have done for me" because they gave me 27 years of support, a college education, and a new car.


  Do you know how does it feel to be guilty and feel terrible about yourself, that you feel like don't even deserve to live then?  When you are a caring person, its the worst feeling in the world.  For many people, guilt is strong enough to commit suicide. 

Quote from: KatelynDo you know how does it feel to be guilty and feel terrible about yourself, that you feel like don't even deserve to live then?  When you are a caring person, its the worst feeling in the world.  For many people, guilt is strong enough to commit suicide. 

YES!
This line of reasoning almost lead me to pull the triger.

We have to balance the wants of others against our needs, and I was taught needs come before wants.

Very true, but there also comes a time when transition shifts from being a "want" to a "need" and must be addressed. Should a person sacrifice their needs for the sake of others and their expectations forever?

There's a saying I have heard many times in my life, and that saying is, "true suicides don't threaten it, they just do it."

Some will make big displays of "I'll just kill myself" as a manipulation tactic, which to me is selfish. I'm not saying that it necessarily applies to this situation, but sometimes it does happen.

Quote from: Katelyn on July 18, 2010, 03:55:39 PM
What about the threat and guilt of possibly destroying your family?  Of possibly your mom committing suicide (because after a life of suffering emotionally, including depression, all she has left in this world are her children) and thus being responsible for your mom's death?  Or to a lesser extent, the guilt of possibly humiliating your parent's and their families when they have to tell their families about their child (coming from an ethnic background like chinese and hispanics that are very traditional and that values males much more than females), or the guilt of "this is how I repay my family after all they have done for me" because they gave me 27 years of support, a college education, and a new car.


  Do you know how does it feel to be guilty and feel terrible about yourself, that you feel like don't even deserve to live then?  When you are a caring person, its the worst feeling in the world.  For many people, guilt is strong enough to commit suicide.

A little over a year ago I was right there with you.  I had to face the choice, do I put people through whatever or do I kill myself and put them through something similar?  I kind of wanted to live, so I looked at it like this-  if anybody wishes I had committed suicide instead of having put them through whatever then a) they had some kind of weird codependency thing going on with my life that they should examine, probably with the help of a qualified professional, b) they don't love me, at least not in terms of how I understand that word, and c) I can be as good as dead to them if that is what they wish.

I think "c" is the route my dad has taken, but I'm not sure yet... =/.   Anyway I don't think anybody should martyr themselves and suffer through life because they are worried about the (honestly ridiculous) hangups somebody else may have.

Knowing how I felt pre-transition, I take offense to anybody that claims to love me, yet hints that they wish I would go back to that dark, dark place.

Quote from: JenKnowing how I felt pre-transition, I take offense to anybody that claims to love me, yet hints that they wish I would go back to that dark, dark place.

I must concur with this sentiment completely. I was an ass as a man and miserable to boot. Anyone who knows me and can not see the positive changes from transition in me, must be blind to reality.

Quote from: jillblum on July 13, 2010, 04:32:19 AM

How do the religious right not hear the message of their own prophet?



You really do have to jump in with both feet. You only lose the people you never really had!

For one, too many fundamentalists go strictly by the book.....the old book, and didn't pay close attention of the message in the new book, the book that supersedes the old.


And yes, you only do lose the people you never really had.  I am personally very aware of that.  I lost every single friend I had.  On the other hand, I gained more friends eventually, than I lost.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 18, 2010, 05:20:00 PM
I must concur with this sentiment completely. I was an ass as a man and miserable to boot. Anyone who knows me and can not see the positive changes from transition in me, must be blind to reality.

I can sympathize with that... I was a miserable jerk before I started transition. Everyone pretty much loves me now, even the people who didn't like me much before. It was a help for others to accept my decision when they saw how much happier I was (and am).

Vee

Quote from: Katelyn on July 18, 2010, 03:55:39 PM
What about the threat and guilt of possibly destroying your family?  Of possibly your mom committing suicide

At the end of the day, each one of us are responsible for our own actions and the consequences of them. You are no more the cause of someone's emotional instability then they are of your gender identity disorder.

My mother went as far as to tell me that I did not love or respect her because I ignored her "wishes" by becoming a transsexual. By that same logic then she doesn't love or respect me because she went against my "wishes" and became a diabetic.

I wish I wasn't trans and I wish she wasn't going to die from her condition but I am not God and I can not control genetics or the emotions of others. That doesn't give us the right to act excessively selfish and hurtful to those around us but we all have to make our own way in the world.



 

Quote from: The Original Cami on July 18, 2010, 08:39:29 PM
At the end of the day, each one of us are responsible for our own actions and the consequences of them. You are no more the cause of someone's emotional instability then they are of your gender identity disorder.

My mother went as far as to tell me that I did not love or respect her because I ignored her "wishes" by becoming a transsexual. By that same logic then she doesn't love or respect me because she went against my "wishes" and became a diabetic.

I wish I wasn't trans and I wish she wasn't going to die from her condition but I am not God and I can not control genetics or the emotions of others. That doesn't give us the right to act excessively selfish and hurtful to those around us but we all have to make our own way in the world.

Exactly. We must understand that in transitioning, there is a possibility for great loss but at the same time, it is never one hundred percent our own faults. Like you said, it's as much my fault for my mom being ill as it is her fault for my being a transsexual. It's hard on everyone but the work you do to achieve who you truly are, if done right with the support of friends and "family" (like us! ^^), will be worth it in the end. Never feel alone for there are always others (like us! XD).

I wish it didn't have to be this way either, that I could just wake up and be the man I want to be, but it isn't that easy so there's no use in crying about it. I'll stand up and square my shoulders and face the world, learning from what I can with the support of those who do care. Besides, life is good when you have Susan's Place.

Quote from: The Original Cami on July 17, 2010, 10:26:05 AM
So, the guy did apologize and he was without a doubt sincerely sorry. He has gone out of his way to make sure I get what I need at work now and he is quick to chastise any of the other grill crew if he hears them using slanderous words even if they are in Spanish.

When he apologized he was like "Cami, I'm really really sorry I did that to you. I was an ass, I was drunk but I was still and ass and I am so sorry. How can I make it up to you?"

I shook his and after the classic local hand jive and fist bump, I told him all was for given and we both had a great week at work together cutting up and having fun.

I think next year for our employee party I'm going to make him a peanut butter pie, just for laughs!

Well played, Cami. You turned a potentially ugly situation to your advantage, and now you have an advocate in the workplace as well. This was the best possible outcome IMO