Michelle, what you say resonates with me.  I had to always be concerned about others and their reactions.  We were not allowed to express ourselves, which of course, is very unhealthy.  I think that my break through will also come when I am able to find myself, based on who I really am, and not based on the expectations of others.  But, right now, when I look in the mirror, I see a stranger.

Good question.

As I settle into my life as a woman, I am starting to feel it more fully than I ever did. But what does it mean? I don't know. I just know that I feel like me and I am learning what being me actually is.

Simply for me, to be a woman means being myself. But I am still working out what that is. But so far the biggest thing for me has been to be loved as a woman and love as a woman. I can't describe how beautiful that is.

I'm all about letting people choose how to live their lives. But if you start channelling Phyllis Schlafly, you can go to hell. Subservient domesticity is not in any way "what it means to be a woman" -- remember the subject of this thread? -- however much it might be a part of your own gender expression. When you suggest it is, you are the one who is telling others how to live their lives.

I feel a very strong need to point out being a housewife doesn't equal subservience, at least not in my family..

Similarly, being a housewife -- or a wife at all -- is not "what it means to be a woman," despite the word's etymology.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 27, 2010, 06:51:23 PM
I'm all about letting people choose how to live their lives. But if you start channelling Phyllis Schlafly, you can go to hell. Subservient domesticity is not in any way "what it means to be a woman" -- remember the subject of this thread? -- however much it might be a part of your own gender expression. When you suggest it is, you are the one who is telling others how to live their lives.

I think we got off on a tangent, when people hear the word housewife they instantly assume woman = housewife therefor woman  = slave.

I was simply using my relationship with my fiance to point out that he brings out the best in me as a woman, i did mention to everyone being a woman means different things, i stated this many times, then i pointed out that i am a woman everyday but i am more of a woman when i am with my man, because he is able to let out the intimate side of me.  People somehow got that into their heads that because i wanted to be a housewife, the context of what i was writing was lost, and the thread started turning to weird places of profession bashing.....

Why is it that people selectively read, it wasnt that i was housewife that made me a woman, i was a woman before and being with my man made me feel more so, the same could be true for two lesbians simply because you show more of your true self to someone you love rather then the average person you meet in a day.

I understood your meaning Izumi, and I hope to one day meet that special person, be they male or female, or somewhere in between, that can really help bring out and express the true me, the woman I am. =] it must really be a great feeling to have that love and comfort =]

Izumi, I wasn't specifically referring to you or anyone else, though I have certainly heard the sentiment expressed on Susan's. It's just a general feeling that the discussion took on. Like you said, it was a tangent; it's just that given the topic, it tended to have that implication, even if nobody individually was suggesting that outright.

Quote from: Izumi on July 27, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
I feel sorry for you.  I really do.  You can have your job that pays tons of money.  Who will you pay to care about you when you die?  Even if your famous, and are remembered through history, your just another page in the history book eventually to be lost in time.  When your here you made money and partied a lot, had a lot of fun, had a lot of fast affairs and hot dates, but who is going to care about you, instead of your money?  You might turn out to be on of those rich millionaires that got hot guys/gals 1/2 there age, but they will only fake caring for you until you keel over and they get your estate.  Heh, i would rather die with no money and my family who loves me around me, then that kind of death. 

Why do you assume that she values the end of her life and the time after she dies so highly that it outweighs the importance of the time she has now as a young healthy woman?

And why do you assume that she values careers/occupations based on the money they bring in? I think that's clearly a misreading of her post - the careers she listed as examples of occupations high in social value are nursing and firefighting, which are far from lucrative. Certainly they bring in less money than well-managed investments.

Quote from: kyril on July 27, 2010, 08:44:26 PM
Why do you assume that she values the end of her life and the time after she dies so highly that it outweighs the importance of the time she has now as a young healthy woman?

And why do you assume that she values careers/occupations based on the money they bring in? I think that's clearly a misreading of her post - the careers she listed as examples of occupations high in social value are nursing and firefighting, which are far from lucrative. Certainly they bring in less money than well-managed investments.

I dont feel sorry for her because of her life path or anything like that, i feel sorry for her because she closes her mind to the option that there could be more to life then a career, it has nothing to do with money and even people with careers have good family lives, it all depends on priorities.   What harm could it do to wonder at what other people are saying about family, its true its not for everyone, and feel sad they cant experience that type of joy, thats all.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 27, 2010, 07:22:23 PM
Similarly, being a housewife -- or a wife at all -- is not "what it means to be a woman," despite the word's etymology.

100% agree.