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Thanks people!

Started by Sangre y Leche, November 16, 2006, 05:47:39 AM

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Sangre y Leche

I'm very happy that I have found this forum! This feels like coming home, finally a place where I read stories I can really relate to.

A little bit about myself:
I am born in a female body. And I have always felt androgyne. If I would have the body that would fit me most, it would change from woman into man and from man into woman, and sometimes be just inbetween. Allthough in the past I have been thinking about going through transition, I came to the conclusion that I would still feel the way I have always felt, moving around the middle. One moment I feel far more masculine, an other moment it is the other way around. Allthough I have always felt more masculine then feminine.

For me, it feels like walking in three worlds. Being from 3 sexes. So far, I have never met other people who also felt this 'fluid'. (a term I saw here, and yeah, that is very much how I feel!)

I live in the Netherlands, I am 35 years old, bisexual, living together with my boyfriend for more then 15 years. Most people around me know about my feelings, but it is very difficult for them to understand. I think the mystery for them is also that they expect someone who is transgender, to want to live like someone from the 'other' sex. And I, allthough being a masculine 'woman', still have long hair, which makes me look feminine. They might understand it more if I would walk around with short hair. My face is androgynous, with long hair I look quite femimine, with short hair I look much more masculine. So, I can hear them think, why don't I shave it off and why do I still partly have a feminine appearance?

This feelings of shifting between the sexes is very strange for people. I think there is the idea that if you are androgyne, you want to be from the 'opposite' sex. It's like you have to choose one side. Well, allthough I would have preferred to be born in a masculine body, the feeling I have would be the same as the feelings I have now. Being both.
I can use all three sides. Sometimes I push the woman in me up front, sometimes the man, and in many cases I integrate them in one. Also hormonal I feel heavy changes sometimes. One moment it feels like testosteron is raging through my blood, and I feel very manly. On other moments, for example before having my periods, I can feel how estrogen is taking controll. (I do definately prefer the feeling of testosteron ;))

My nickname 'Sangre y Leche' means 'Blood and Milk'. It came from a dream I had years ago, in which I saw a sea made of blood and milk. This is me. Contradictions in One. In more than one aspect.

And to be honest people, allthough I struggle sometimes with it and many people will never understand the way I feel, I do love being me. Being androgyne makes me feel very complete. I feel lucky, and would not want to be 'normal'. Whatever that may be.

So again, thanks to you all for your stories here, for making this forum alive!  :-*
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Mia and Marq

Sangre y Leche,
Its always a delight to have a new member of our family here at Susans and especially in the Androgyne section. We're definitely happy you've decided to be here and I personally would like to welcome you. I do look foward to all the input and opinions you have to share. As you've already stated, you've been through alot of our topics already which is just excellent.

If you have any questions for any of us, don't hesitate to ask. I'm always happy to answer questions about myself or what I believe.

In the event that you haven't read my story yet, I fall under a specific type of Androgyne, Bi-Gendered, or two seperate personas, one male and one female. Marq and Mia as they prefer. Were as you describe a more fluid transition of your male and female sides, we can still relate to being among those in the middle of the poles.

I especially was impressed with the wisdom you stated that even if you were to change your physical sex, you would find yourself with the same feeling of not being quite representative of whats inside. I share the feeling.

Well I've made my welcome just a tad too long so I'll stop now. Once again, welcome!

-Us
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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Dennis

Welcome to the forums, S&L. You'll find like-minded people here.

Dennis
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Laurry

Hi Sangre Y Leche!  Welcome to Susan's!

It will be nice to hear from an Androgyne with a female body...most of us here own the other model.  I agree that unless you could have a body that can change back and forth, at will, from Male to Female to both to somewhere in between, no body will be perfectly correct.  Wow...wouldn't that be great???  Until then, we get what's dealt to us and either live with it or modify it to some degree.

QuoteMy nickname 'Sangre y Leche' means 'Blood and Milk'. It came from a dream I had years ago, in which I saw a sea made of blood and milk. This is me. Contradictions in One. In more than one aspect.

Contradictions in One...must be why you live in the Netherlands and have a Spanish nickname  ;D

I'm curious about something.  I also have my Male days and my Female days and most of the time hang out somewhere in between (a little more fem than masc).  When my gender slips from one to the other, it is usually over the course of a day or two.  I'm not sure if this is considered "fluid" as I tend to think of it as an ebb and flow, a natural cycle, even if there is no set rhythm to the change.  Marq and Mia exist, male and female at once, two personas in one body, so their shift would seem to be quicker than mine...I am more integrated, possessing male and female qualities as a single persona that changes more slowly, but just as surely.  How often do you move from feeling more male or more female?

Glad you're here and look forward to hearing more from you!

.......Laurie

   
Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
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Kendall

Interesting story about your dream of blood and milk.

I have read a few journals of fluids.  There will be more coming here. This section is just recently  experienced the first population boost, so expect more to come.

Thanks for the post. It really helps to build up this forum more. I look forward to reading more from you.

Ken/Kendra
AI Androgyne Intergender
75F25M
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Jillieann Rose

Hello Sangre Y Leche!
It's good to meet you.
Althought most of the time I seem to have both genders present . Sometime I become almost totally one or the other. It doesn't seem to have a pattern that I can tell. The except to this is that occassional when one of us get hurt that one hide for awhile.
Hope to read more from you.
Welcome to Susan's.
:) :)
Jillieann/JR
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Shana A

Welcome Sangre y Leche! Glad you've joined us.

QuoteAllthough in the past I have been thinking about going through transition, I came to the conclusion that I would still feel the way I have always felt, moving around the middle. One moment I feel far more masculine, an other moment it is the other way around. Allthough I have always felt more masculine then feminine.

On an internal level I don't seem to shift between genders very much, I think I'm always just me regardless of outer presentation. It wasn't always this way though, it all keeps evolving with time and settling in to being comfortable as I am. I also feel that even if I were to do HRT and SRS, I'd still feel this same way.

zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Sangre y Leche

Thanks again you all, this time for your welcome.  And the patience of reading my post. This one will be pretty long as well  ;)

Hmm, I was thinking a bit more about this term 'fluid' and how it feels for me. Maybe I should not label myself that, because it immediately puts me 'in a cage'.  Anyway, it is a relieve to me that I am not the only one who actually feels the shiftings between genders.

Laurie0, you ask how often I move between feeling more male or female. This does not go with a solid rhythm. Mostly I feel more male then female. Sometimes one of the sexes is being triggered, and then I can surprise myself with for example suddenly being very female. In that way I do recognise things that Marc-Mia says, this two-in-one. Sometimes I have to push one away because it get's in the way of the other.
For example: the man in me is much more straight forwards then the woman, and less patient if it comes to subtle communication. The man in me would say things pretty blunt, while the female in me is very sensitive and much more subtile.

I definately do not always control who is the most upfront. I think my hormones got a lot to do with that, like before I need to have my period I am more female. Sometimes I just notice it, I feel an unbalance in my feelings and get specific things coming from estrogen (like being unreasonable emotional). On other times I really feel testosterone is raging through my veins and it's hard to find any female feelings in me. My mind is much more on sex, I feel more 'aggressive' (although this is not the word I'm looking for, I don't walk around literally aggressive, it's a feeling of 'fire in my veins'..).

It's all pretty difficult to describe actually. I have been thinking of writing things down some more, to see if there is a pattern I can recognise, how it works in me.

I feel that this is something that has got a lot to do with my hormones and with the way my brain functions. I think that it's a combination with the place in the brain that has got something to do with genderfeeling, combined with how much hormones my body produces.

I know that this feelings of raging testosteron is not something I make up in my mind. The most proof I got from that is this:
Being a bisexual biological 'woman', I have to protect myself against pregnancy. The thought of becoming pregnant is horrifying me, I have no intention of giving childbirth ever. (gruesome thoughts!)  So, believe it or not, for a while I was so stupid to take the pill as birth control. Can you imagine, someone like me who has never felt like a woman, taking an extra amount of female hormones on a daily basis? Afterwards I can not imagine how I could have been this stupid! Anyway, after years of using the pill I decided that I needed to stop. After that I came back to my natural hormonal balance, and it needed some time to balance out.
What happened to me was in many ways the same that happens to 'women' who start to take testosteron injections. My voice got lower (my voice is pretty low anyway  :)) and I was completely focused on sex, like extremely. I felt very restless, felt much more 'agression', but at the same time it was like coming home to myself again. I noticed that I felt more at ease with myself, more selfconfident, and slowly my natural hormonal balance came back. Which is more to the male side. That is how I feel it.
In the period that I took the pill I still didn't feel female. But there where things that bothered me, plagued me, and in which I felt that this wasn't me!

Now I feel more in balance. This hormonal thing is very interesting to me, in my search of who I am. I have learned much more to see and feel the difference between the two opposites, and also to use them.
Sometimes it is pretty easy for me to switch, I can do it also by mindset. I can trigger myself, so to say. Maybe a certain state of mind triggers the hormones that my body produces. Like when you face something suddenly, it can give you an adrenaline rush. Adrenaline in me most often triggers a masculine feeling anyway.

But on other moments I would like to switch and I notice that this is not easy at all. Like when I need to have my period, I want to feel more masculine but then it just doesn't happen. The estrogen is in control then. Or also the other way around, the man in me is not always easy to live with so to say   ;D ... in that way, I have been thinking in the past, that it can be a schizophrenic feeling. The difference is that I function normal, have no psychological disfunctions whatsoever and I know myself pretty well. So, I am not schizo. ;)

So maybe the term fluid is just not right. I better stuck with the label of androgyn if I have to put a label on me at all.

Do I make sense to you? To me it sounds still pretty crazy, and I am trying to figure it all out inside of me.

How do you al see this? Like what happens in your body? Because I truly believe that this is something I am born with, not something that is wrong psychologically. Do you recognise the feelings of changing hormones, for example?

Ah yeah, one last thing: I never feel completely masculine or feminine. It never comes to the point that I feel on one edge of the line. It's more like this, if there is a line with on one side feeling completely masculine and on the other side completely feminine, and there is a point in the middle of the line, I never go completely over that point. There is always both genders in the field I am moving in. It's just that one moment it is in perfect balance, man-woman, and on an other moment one of the two genders is taking more space.

I hope this makes a bit sense, sometimes I struggle with language. Being Dutch my English is not so broad as yours.  :)
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Casey

Based on what you're saying and my own experience I'd say that fluid is a great word for it. I'm an "integrated" androgyne too, mostly because I got so darn tired of having to be one way or the other. I can sort of control the change but a lot of times it's situational. (But then I only started on this journey eight months ago.) I'll be sitting there quite happy in whatever gender mix I'm feeling at the time and I'll read or see something and my gender mix changes. It's kind of an odd feeling, but one I feel more with my mind than my body.

I never feel fully masculine or fully feminine either, which is why I say my gender is other rather than both. I never seem to get totally on one side or the other. It's just that "at rest", as the scientists say, I feel like an equal mix of male and female.

I know what you mean about SRS. I'm pretty sure I'd feel this way no matter what body I was in. And since my body is 50% right the way it is, SRS would make my body 50% wrong and cost me good money. I haven't decided one way or the other about HRT but I recently discovered that I'm not as happy with my body as I thought I was.
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madison

Hello Sangre y Leche,

While I do not have time to chat right now, I wanted to say hello.

It was comforting for me as well to find this place and other people who have some idea of what I feel. And it is even more reassuring to watch the community grow and see people sharing, and most importantly living.

And since I've been doing nothing but working for weeks now, it is definitely nice to know that somebody else has a life. :)

As Laurie pointed out, it is interesting to meet a bio-female androgyne. It was beginning to seem as though masculine traits in women were so the norm that the need for a woman to identify as androgyne was perhaps redundant. Hmmm, inspiring thoughts I just don't have time to get into.

Welcome. And your english is extraordinary and I am jealous of your bilingual power. But I'm sure you speak more than two languages, maybe three? Four? At least enough to match your gender identification I am sure. :)

merry day all,
Madison

Oh, one other thing: I recently took a trip to Bonaire, wondering if you've ever been to the Netherlands Antilles?
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Simone

Just wanted to say hi too to another new friend.x.

I hope you find all answers to any questions you have here and lots and lots of support!!..x.x.

Simone/Paul.x.
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