Hi everyone,

I am doing a paper for my Sociology class and I am doing some basic research. The question is, Are we a subculture, meaning we are a group within the general group of society and share most values and norms or are we a counterculture, meaning we have different values and norms.

As an example, a chess club would be as subculture, but anarchists advocasting the overthrow of all government would be a counter culture. Basically do we live within the norms of society or are we wanting to change society to meet our norms and values?

Thanks in advance.

Love always,
Elizabeth

I voted both, because I see it as a combination of the 2.  We want to live normal lives, but at the same time, we want society to accept us.

Melissa

In the strictest sense I see us as a sub-culture.  The term sometimes has negative connotations with it so some may be uncomfortable attaching it to who we are.  But if you take away our TG issues, most of us fit comfortably in society.  And most of us want to be seen as a normal part of this society.  Our only difference stems from a societal belief that has no logic to it - you have to be happy living life in a gender congruous with your genitals.

Julie

I say NEITHER.

We're not trying to be a subgroup like a chess club. We're trying to seamlessly blend back in and forget all this TSism stuff. At least I am. I have no agenda or values I'm imposing on anyone. And if I can pull off a seamless transiiton, I want to put all this behind me and not think about it anymore. I know I will of course, there will always be artifacts from it, but... as best I can, fix it, and move on.

I'm still smarting from a friend of mine insisting that I'm part of some deviant, promiscuous, drug-using "culture" just because I'm TS. I mean... where are they? I get how gays and certain sexual groups (BDSM, etc.) have cultures, as they DO something together. But TSs? What are we gonna do enmasse? Sure, we share information and support, but it's not the same thing. It's not a "culture" with shared mannerisms and behaviours.

You know it's a great topic when there are four responses and you choose all of them sequentially and pretty quickly.  I think I am going with "neither", mainly because Kate has articulated well that point, but I have the feeling that I may revisit this one more than once.  When is that paper due?   

Susan Kay

Quote from: Elizabeth on November 27, 2006, 03:00:30 PM
Hi everyone,

I am doing a paper for my Sociology class and I am doing some basic research. The question is, Are we a subculture,

Who do you mean by "we".  It would seem to me that if there is going to be more sociologists who are going to dissect us, categorize us, divide us, pigeon hole us, segregate us, line us up and give us signs and symbols to identify us, it would be nice if they knew who they were dealing with.

Why are there those out there who have this incessant need to do this.  I am not part of a culture, I'm am not transgender (A term coined to group CD, TV, IS, TS, and what ever other ism is out there, all together for easy identification.) I am human, I am a woman, In broad terms I belong to the culture of women, I have an incurable medical condition that is treatable with medications and surgical intervention, if you cut me I bleed, I bleed the same blood as everyone else.

I think that if you are talking about TS then TS and sociology classes would be better served if papers were written to inform those who care what we are and what we are not, rather than placing us in a culture/sub-culture all of our very own.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on November 27, 2006, 09:46:32 PM

Who do you mean by "we".  It would seem to me that if there is going to be more sociologists who are going to dissect us, categorize us, divide us, pigeon hole us, segregate us, line us up and give us signs and symbols to identify us, it would be nice if they knew who they were dealing with.

The theory is that every identifiable group must be either a subculture or a counterculture. Basically, one is either part of a group or not part of that group. "we", means transsexuals. I am uninterested in the labeling. Whether someone is called a transsexual or a female with a birth defect, it is still a subgroup of people that share certain characteristics, notably feeling that our body gender is wrong. Either we are just a subgroup of society at large or we want to change society to run by our set of rules.

I am interested in the attitudes related to how one fits into society.

Love always,
Elizabeth

I totally agree with your response Steph.  I don't think I could add anything to it.

Sarah L.

It seems to me that since most transgendered people wish to be accepted in our culture as equals and that our society has decided to exclude us from full membership, that transgendered people would correctly be described as a sub-culture.

While we are rebelling against the intolerance and narrowminded elements of our society and the mores that arise out of that intolerance I do not think that anyone is purposely rebelling.  If you compare our plight to that of the afro-americans in the 1950's and 1960's you can see that we, as they were, exhibit characteristics of both classifications.  A desire for inclusion is the overiding principle.  The rebellion against that which prevents us from being included simply grows out of this desire.

While it's true that labels and classifications are ultimately limiting devices on a personal level I think it is also true that looking at our culture and society in a macro sense can provide valuable insights to how we should order our beliefs and attitudes for a more inclusive and effective social order.

hugs & smiles
helen

I think both