So, I started going to this big peer group and at first it seemed great.   I was able to see and talk to people who have have gone through everything I am going through.   But as time moves on, I'm finding that I don't seem to fit in.

Today there was a discussion in the group about Transgender Community and someone mentioned that our community is really more of a grouping of cliques.  She gave as examples the "Pretty  People Who Pass" group and the "->-bleeped-<-" Group.  I can see her point.   At the end of the meeting people seem to clump.  They go out to this teriyaki place after the meeting and they all seem to split up into these groups.

Do others see this type of thing?

My problem, I suppose, is that I'm having a hard time finding a place in any of these groups.   I've tried my hardest to to fit in and connect with others, but that doesn't seem to be working.  I've been thinking that I simply won't fit in anywhere in the world and perhaps I just just ignore my inner feelings and conform to society's perception of gender identity and expression. 

Does anyone else feel like they can't seem to find a place to fit in?

The whole thing is starting to get me down.   I started going to this meeting hoping to meet people and find a place where I'd be comfortable.  But that idea seems to be failing in execution.

Your probably right I find it amazing that certain transpepole have prejudices like that... You'd think that we of all people would know about how cruel genetic dice rolls can be and how it feels to be judged on that. Then again they might just be different people whom you don't have anything in common with.

If it makes you uncomfortable You don't have to socialize with any of them if you don't want to tell them all to stick it and do the lone wandering ronin thing. It's not a priority of mine to make friends with my transition I feel that would be faulty this whole thing I'm doing is about making myself right with my body and doing what I know I have to and that's why I avoid things like Trans pride.

I guess my first question would be... what are CD's doing in a Trans support group?  Really, they're a different community altogether.  I went to a Trans support group meeting recently, and I will admit, at first I found some of them were a little scary - i.e. a lot of the MTF's weren't even TRYING to pass - speaking in a male voice, looking like a caraciture, the FTM's were all a lot more believable and approachable, and at first, I situated myself near an MTF who seemed more "normal".  Note that I was not dressed at all, just presenting as male, while practicing my voice and introducing myself as Colleen.  So I could hardly talk, lol.

But as the meeting progressed, and I started getting to know these people, I could NOT help but be impressed with each and every one of them, who were engaged in a very difficult struggle to be who they are, despite long odds and few resources.  I mean, I could see with some of them, that they were really having to stretch, and didn't have access to resources that could have helped.  Some of them were probably unemployed.  Me, I have a good job, and don't expect to have to lose it.  So I realized that each and every one of them is possessed of a quiet dignity and personal integrity, and all of them are very likeable.  Do I want to be best buds with all of them?  No.  But I can relate in some way to each of them.  Maybe if folks would look at things differently, and try to see the person inside, there wouldn't be these cliques...

Quote from: pebbles on August 26, 2010, 02:17:01 AM
It's not a priority of mine to make friends with my transition I feel that would be faulty this whole thing I'm doing is about making myself right with my body and doing what I know I have to and that's why I avoid things like Trans pride.

Bit of a tangential point, but Pride isn't about making friends. It's intended to be a political movement - a community coming together to take pride in who they are and demand equal rights. Meeting fellow sufferers and kindred spirits is a nice perk if you wish to embrace that, though.

I've felt quite bad about things myself, but I'm afraid I cannot relate to cross-dressers either. I realise now we have so little in common, and it's nice to know I'm not the only trans girl who feels that way; it makes me feel a lot less bitchy!

I lean back on my mantra, that "trans people" are just people - as diverse and unique as any people would be. No-one could relate to society as a whole, and so nor could I relate to the whole trans umbrella.

I've always felt uncomfortable when crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s are welcome at support groups, the TV's mostly. It is a COMPLETELY different world from being transsexual and think they should be kept separate. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against CD's and TV's in the general sense but it seems ridiculous to lump a sexual fetish group in with a support group.

(just noticed how funny CD and TV  look together when I abbreviate them )

Whenever I go to the local gay bar, (Dempsys Brass Rail in Spokane, WA) the drag queens make me feel very out of place and I have no point of referance with them.
Like an odd creature wearing the skin of a transwoman. Kinda wigs me out.

Thank you for the responses.   I think that I'm having difficulty fitting in because my standards may be too high?  Perhaps that's turning me off on getting to know these people better?   I dunno.  There are a few in the group that I feel I have some in common with, but I've been unable figure out how to connect with them beyond the actual meeting.  I suppose this is what happens when you avoid people for so long in order to avoid being judged by others.  (I should have transitioned in my 20's   If only I could do some things over.) 

Then again, perhaps I just suck as a human being and they are picking up on that? 

I actually have no issues with anyone gender varient.  I feel more comfortable around transsexuals, though.   I feel that I have more in common somehow.   I don't think we have a real community like the GLB's.   We are all individuals who are just trying to be accepted, but are struggling to find a voice.  Someone in the group said:  "We have a community in the same way that cancer patients have a community."   The jist of it is that we just want to fix our issues and move on.  We don't want to linger and dwell on the pain of our past.   I think that has truth and validity.

Yes that is why high school was difficult for me, not fitting in with those whom are not Transgender or Gender different can cause a lot of stress on you. That's why I find meetings that mix everyone in not such a good thing. You need  a CD's group , TRANS group ,etc... . . but give those whom want to meet their own group. I find that you need to deal with the issues and problems unique to that group within so those individuals can freely express their concerns & seek help without feeling uncomfortable.

Quote from: Epigania on August 26, 2010, 12:32:35 AM
So, I started going to this big peer group and at first it seemed great.   I was able to see and talk to people who have have gone through everything I am going through.   But as time moves on, I'm finding that I don't seem to fit in.

Today there was a discussion in the group about Transgender Community and someone mentioned that our community is really more of a grouping of cliques.  She gave as examples the "Pretty  People Who Pass" group and the "->-bleeped-<-" Group.  I can see her point.   At the end of the meeting people seem to clump.  They go out to this teriyaki place after the meeting and they all seem to split up into these groups.

Do others see this type of thing?

My problem, I suppose, is that I'm having a hard time finding a place in any of these groups.   I've tried my hardest to to fit in and connect with others, but that doesn't seem to be working.  I've been thinking that I simply won't fit in anywhere in the world and perhaps I just just ignore my inner feelings and conform to society's perception of gender identity and expression. 

Does anyone else feel like they can't seem to find a place to fit in?

The whole thing is starting to get me down.   I started going to this meeting hoping to meet people and find a place where I'd be comfortable.  But that idea seems to be failing in execution.

I felt the same way in trans groups but i think it happens when people run meetings.  I joined another group that meets monthly sponsored by my therapist at her house,  FTM, MTF, intersex, Gay, Lesbian, Friends, Family, doesnt matter everyone meets at her house once a month and we have a pot luck, its more a party then a meeting.  We end up talking mainly about TS issues, but its in a festive environment and we all mingle and find out more of what is going on in each other's lives.  See its not about TS issues at the party, its about personal issues and just how your life is going, so you really get to know people for who they are and make your decisions on whether to be friends with them.  So far i havent found anyone i dont like to be friends with, they are all great people.   

Maybe you can find something like that.

This post actually made me think of my own experiences in the past. I've always avoided the general LGBT groups because I really do not fit into the larger "scene". I of course have nothing against any group either but observing the exchanges from the outskirts I could see so many inner conflicts. I guess it's human nature or something to just want to push your own agenda or to not play nice with others. I seriously can't come up with any other reasoning because it seems irrational to me that each separate group, who just wants to be treated fairly and accepted, does not even practice what they preach sometimes.

I always felt like an odd ball - and even in the trans community I still feel like an odd ball simply because I'm not "transitioning". Sometimes I feel like if I say that, people just go, "oh." then treat me differently. I have not actually felt that here, which is nice, but a message board doesn't always mirror in-person intermingling.

I also feel that if you get involved in a community some people except you to do things. It can almost be like mob rule in some extreme situations. Like I've observed groups who get this collective mindset that they're different (ok, yes, we're all different on a unique individual level but to kind of coerce people to actively promote the difference is a bit much). Or they want or expect you to go to rallies or protests or anything of that nature. Granted I noticed more of this in the LGB community and very few trans people seemed to be involved. I haven't actually been in an all trans group in person.

It could just be me too ... I mean, I do have the mindset that I am unique and no one is quite like me. Even when I'm involved with other random groups - business groups, classes, anything really, I feel like I stick out like a sore thumb ... that I can't really connect with people on a personal level.

Quote from: Epigania on August 26, 2010, 09:22:09 AM(I should have transitioned in my 20's   If only I could do some things over.) 

Cheer up, hon, you're still WAY young by my standards... I could say, "I should have transitioned in my 20's/30's/40's   If only I could do some things over.)" 

Are you significantly older than most of them?  I'm wondering if it could be an age/cultural thing more than anything else?

@Izumi:   You know, that's actually what I'm looking for.   This group seems to constantly talk about politics  or how long it is until they have their GRS.   All of that is fine, but there's never an opportunity to talk about things like ... The realizations you had with your therapist this week.   Or why you've been feeling anxious lately.  Or why it's so hard to feel connected to other transsexuals.  

I'm envious of you. (And I love your name, BTW!)

@Inside:   I've not felt much of a desire to get involved with the Rallies and such, though I want to find a way I can give back to the community.   I don't like the idea of people having to go through the stress I've had to go through trying to get past the legal requirements to live FT as a woman.  I am starting to think that perhas this group isn't quite right for me.   It doesn't have the warm feel I was expecting when I started.

@Colleen:  I think part of the reason I feel like such an outsider is because I'm still "Technically" early in the transition process.   Not really by choice, honestly.  I can't seem to find a therapist accepting new patients who is comfortable with the whole WPATH processes.  I'm getting closer, though, I think. 

I live my life outside work as me, but still go to work in my CISGender.   Everyone else in the group has been on hormones for years or are getting ready to have their GRS.  The few that are early in the process like me are all in their early 20's, it seems.    I have a hard time associating with the youngins, and they use language I'm not famiar with.    Perhaps it is a generational gap?   The sad thing is I'm sort of stuck in a "Generation Limbo" .... I'm sort of a Generation X/Generation Next (Internet Generation?) but I don't really fit neatly into either one. hehe. 

Quote from: Epigania on August 26, 2010, 08:15:17 PM@Colleen:  I think part of the reason I feel like such an outsider is because I'm still "Technically" early in the transition process.   Not really by choice, honestly.  I can't seem to find a therapist accepting new patients who is comfortable with the whole WPATH processes.  I'm getting closer, though, I think. 

I live my life outside work as me, but still go to work in my CISGender.   Everyone else in the group has been on hormones for years or are getting ready to have their GRS.  The few that are early in the process like me are all in their early 20's, it seems.    I have a hard time associating with the youngins, and they use language I'm not famiar with.    Perhaps it is a generational gap?   The sad thing is I'm sort of stuck in a "Generation Limbo" .... I'm sort of a Generation X/Generation Next (Internet Generation?) but I don't really fit neatly into either one. hehe.

Aww... Hugs to you, girl.  I'm still just as early as you, in fact earlier.  I'm still cisgender everywhere but here, and my own mind.  I can dress in secret, and my wife does know about me, but otherwise I'm still hardly started.  And I'm 54.  And as hard as it is, I just know I'm going to make it, and so will you.  I hear you about feeling out of place.   I'm kind of upset on your behalf, though, that the "older" girls (farther along) aren't taking you under their wing.  That makes me mad!  I guess we can't all be lucky to find folks who will help... is there maybe another support group nearby?  I chose the one I did because it's closer, but there's another one I could go to if the first doesn't work out.

It really is upsetting sometimes that we have to be so self-supporting and knowledgable about what we need and how to get it, and that there aren't too many good sources of reliable information that's the same for everyone.  It's so hit-or-miss.  Grrrr....

Interesting post.   All I know of our world is through the internet or here.  I haven't been to any group meetings yet.  I'm concerned about how to project my self.  For now I find the thought of a community meeting a little intimidating.   I guess I'm still at that awkward pre-puberty stage.

I too am worried about fitting in.  Susan's place has been a real nice start for me.   So far I really like you all and every day I read a post that makes me feel a little more comfortable with who I am.  This place makes me feel normal or at least not alone.

Thanks to all,

Mary

Nice to see you, Mary!   I'm glad you're here - this is, indeed, a very good place to be.  When I first came here, I was a shivering bundle of jell-o, barely able to hold my head up.  Full of shame, just having come out of denial, and very, very unsure of myself.  Since I've been here, I've grown up a lot.  I'm now almost proud of who I am and what I am, and I look forward to the day when I can be OUT and proud, and not care who knows it.  But you're right... baby steps.  We'll get there.  It just takes time.  I hope to see you around.

Oh, and I've only been to one meeting so far, and truth be told, if I hadn't had a good friend offer to pick me up and drive me there, I'd probably have bailed - I was a bundle of nerves!  I presented as male, but introduced myself as Colleen, and practiced my voice all evening, and everyone was nice as pie.  Made me feel welcome.  I will go back, on my own, and with a lot more confidence.  I'll probably use it as a safe place to go dressed, also.  I know now that I don't need to feel self-conscious there.

Epigania:

This is a tremendous thread, and thank you for starting it. 

A few points:

That's just human nature.  People in all eras and places segregate and congregate for any number of reasons.  Sad?  Yes.  True?  Yes.  Changeable?  No.  We just have to accept the world as it is.  Easier said than done; yes, I know.

Like you, I too just cannot relate to ->-bleeped-<-s.  I have nothing against them.  Their scene neither intrests nor intrigues me.  By no means whatsoever can I relate to it or to them.  Live and let live, I say.  May they go their ways in peace ... but without me. 

Look, there's NOTHING wrong with you, okay?  How can I say that without even really knowing you?  By your various posts, I can get a pretty good idea that you are very together.  It's entirely possible that you possess insights that most other people do not share and, in fact, cannot have.  That sounds elitist, but it's true.  When I was on the wiki staff (which I'll eventually be back on), I started a series of articles about this very subject.  There's nothing wrong with you.  You just "see" what many other people cannot.  On one hand, that's a blessing.  On the other hand, it's a curse.  You can be altogether and thoroughly alone ... in a huge crowd of people. 

Really, I wish I had an answer for you about how to connect with people.  Sadly, I do not.  I'm right there with you.  Many people share this same experience.  All I can offer you is my moral support, and that I freely do. 

My best to you.       Lacey

Thank you for the response.

I'm thinking I'm going to stop going to this group for awhile.   I have always considered myself very level headed but the group is bringing out some negative self image issues that I don't think are going to be resolved in that setting.

Perhaps after I find a qualified therapist I'll start going back.   We'll have to see.

You are all very kind, and I have to say that I love this forum.   I tried to build something like this site back in the early 90's and just couldn't get it going.  (Of course that was *blushes* pre-google too .. )   Susan has done an amazing job building a safe place for us..

izumi u were beautyfull..and i like ur pose..so sweet..

what can i say? community was beautylistic