Quote from: Kvall on September 10, 2010, 12:49:12 PM
I think it is rather rude of you to call out someone in particular and tell them they need to think harder about whether to transition.

word. i didn't want to believe my eyes when i read that.  plus i REALLY hate how elijah gets to take the s..t from all sorts of people just because his face is on youtube.

Wow.. I definitely don't find it very appropriate to throw out Elijah's name in your original post. I can appreciate you taking your time to write a post urging people to really think about their transition and who they are, but using another guys name from here is not cool. Even if your trying to help him, you can msg him on here, youtube, facebook, something private.. but out like this to everyone? not right.

Quote from: Kvall on September 10, 2010, 12:49:12 PM
I think it is rather rude of you to call out someone in particular and tell them they need to think harder about whether to transition. Just because you perceive similarities in their story does not mean you know what is right for them. Having doubts does not mean that someone isn't trans.

I think you're a shining example of how people tend to self-select out of hormones and surgery when it isn't right for them, thus contributing to the very low regret rate for transitioners. I'm sorry that you had to deal with confusion and self-caused dysphoria, and I do think it is important to hear from people who de-transitioned (even if just socially each way), but I think we all could really do without the condescension and judgments being made.

Your story can stand for itself in helping people make the decision whether to transition. You don't need to add a bunch of warnings or encourage people not to transition. It just makes your post sound ridiculous and like you don't understand that this is real for most of us. Oh, you'll allow that it might be a real condition, huh? I'm so glad to have your potential approval.

I've never seen someone "push" transition here, we just fully support it when people do make the choice to do so--or not to do so. Why? Because it isn't our choice to make, it's theirs.

wow i guess i posted my comment a little late, but i totally agree with you man. idk why everyone else was so easy going about it

I think your post may or may not help people, we need to think carefully about what exactly we post or how we word things. It can be helpful in letting people know that they dont HAVE to be defined as something, and that just because they might have ts tendencies, doesnt necessarily make them ts (going along with the good gender therapist comments) but it can also just cause more confusion to some, added confusion thats not needed. So I'm pretty indifferent about your post.

I will agree though that Elijah's name shouldn't have been used publicly, whatever he posts is not for others to judge when it comes to the life decisions he makes.

It is good to hear a story from someone who changed their mind about transitioning.  Based on my limited experience, it seems that kind of story doesn't get shared as much as it should.  So thank you.

I've had a different experience with this site, though (can't speak for other TG sites - I've only posted here).  When I started posting here, I was about 90% sure I wanted to transition.  After more reading and thinking, I realized I wasn't so sure.  When I posted about being undecided, people were supportive and understanding.  The main message I got was, "Take your time to figure this out, and definitely don't do anything you might regret later."

I'm really glad that I got this kind of message, and not the pressure to transition that I've heard people sometimes encounter.  I've known I was TG / genderqueer by some definition for a long time, probably since I was about 4 years old.  But I've been really reluctant to do anything about it.  Over the past 5 years, I've started talking to people more openly about it.  About a year ago, I decided it was time to seek therapy and educate myself by talking to people in the TS / TG community.  Unfortunately, I'm temporarily living in a rural area where it's hard to find other trans people, and I can't afford therapy, so all I can do is go online.  Really, what I'm learning here is just driving home the point that transition is completely life-altering and that it's a good idea to be cautious and think carefully about any doubts you have.  I wouldn't want to transition without being confident that it was the right choice for me.  At the same time, I've reached the point where I have no choice but to seriously consider it.  My gender identity issues have been interfering with my life too much for it to be realistic to ignore them.  But it's important to remember that the internet is not a substitute for therapy, and I think you're supposed to be in therapy for at least a year before starting T (?).  I think this is so that people can sort through everything and be 100% sure they want to transition before doing so.  In most cases, it's probably better to have to wait too long than to rush in.  If people rushed in, many would later change their minds.

Also, I agree with Nicky about the categories.  One reason I'm really glad to have found this site and other online resources is that I've learned that it's not just a simple matter of being either FTM TS or not TG at all - it's more a matter of being true to yourself first and finding the label that's the best fit later.

Quote from: emil on September 10, 2010, 12:47:40 PM
a ten year wait sure separates the men from the boys    i have known i was ftm since i was five years old, and many people feel the same way. a lot of people just didn't have the guts/financial means to start therapy but they certainly didn't wake up one morning and decide to see a gender therapist for TS. i think WHEN someone is found out to be TS beyond resonable doubt, they should not be forced to spend all the younger years of their lives in desolation.

Agreed, this why we are leaning more and more towards informed consent.  Gender therapists are there for those with doubts, but those without should not be made to wait obscene amounts of time for the right hormones.  For many, their life truly begins after medical transition.  Waiting 5 years would not only put their transition on hold but their love-life, work, etc. as well. 

We do need to know about negative transitions. It is a fact of life and the fact that some have a bad experiance or just plane screwed up should not be swept under the rug so bravo and thankjyou.
However......WTF are you doing calling out a man by name for a potential bad transition on a public forum?
That was the height of poor taste and rude.
It is not for you to say if someone else should or should not transition. Let others succed or fail on their own merits.

I think it's good for us to read de transition storys. It's a good warning not to pursue medical transition unless we are sure.

I'm not long over 1 yr RLE and I should be starting T soon, if I was unsure I would hold off and wait another year or so but I know transition is right for me.

I agree with the idea of not pursuing medical transition until you are sure. I don't know if there should be a specific standard of how long one should have to live full time though because everyone is different. The period of time for therapy though should perhaps be lengthened from the standard of 3 months (at least it's 3 months where I live) to something more like 6 months. In general 3 months is a very short time to see a therapist for anything and even consider yourselves to know one another well.

Maybe some kind of exception like people who have already been living full time or have been out for so long could get the shorter time frame but I've met some people who haven't even come out yet until a couple of weeks before they were going to get their hormone letter. I mean when it comes down to it if you haven't even come out there are other issues, like family and friends, the reality of dealing with how people will perceive you and treat you is a huge part of transitioning. You have to have outlets for support besides just your therapist and suddenly coming out and diving in all at once is a big thing to deal with, not just for the person transitioning, but for the other people in their lives who haven't even had a chance to process what is happening to their loved one.

I know one guy in particular in real life that I've known for about 7 years now. He came out about 5 years ago, not very publicly at all, I was his ONLY trans friend and I didn't even have a clue! I actually found out he was trans from a mutual friend because he told them I had offended him by using female pronouns when he had not even told me he identified as trans or wanted to go through HRT and SRS. Honestly I found it more offensive that he felt the need to tell other's I was disrespecting him when he had not even taken the time to let me know in any way how he felt or identified than he probably thought it was for me to call him by female pronouns (and I say this of course with the experience of having dealt with people using female pronouns for me).

He ended up starting hormone within about 4 months of coming out, keep in mind he is someone who had never even spoken of being trans until this time period. He'd never said anything at all about feeling male or not feeling right in his female body, etc. I mean absolutely zero signs he was trans and not just a semi-butch lesbian. After a few months he backed off of hormones and then started going by female pronouns again. A year later I found out he'd turned around a few months after that and asked to be called he and started hormones once again. Once again he stopped taking them and then began telling people to only refer to him as female in public or online, attempting to hide his trans identity except for in private safe spaces (understandble, but odd for someone trying to "transition" physically imo). At this point I have no idea if he is on hormones, we don't talk anymore since I apparently chose to "disrespect" his identity all those years back. I don't even know if he is still going by male pronouns or not.

He is an example of someone who needed more time, even if transitioning has turned out to be the path he followed and is the correct path for him at the beginning he was not ready and was not prepared to deal with the reality of what he was doing.

He has seriously taken this whole thing so far with the disrespect that he has publicly called me female, made fun of me for choosing to wait so long to begin hormones (obviously not considering that I came out when I was 15 and had no choice or say in the matter due to legally being a minor), told other people I was ignorant because I told our mutual friend that he may want to consider waiting longer and thinking about it more (apparently I'm ignorant despite the fact that he went back and forth so many times).... it's been ridiculous. He even told my fiancee not to date me when we first got together because I'm a horrible person who doesn't respect trans people and I'm a self hater. He told people I would be emotionally abusive to her and would not accept her for who she was.

Uhm... long story short some people are worthless jerks. And other people are just decent guys/girls who need to think things through and perhaps be pushed to think more by the people who are supposed to be screening them before starting HRT or making SRS plans. That was only long because after I started thinking about it the whole issue kind of pissed me off all over again lol.

Quote from: mcalistershaun
But if you are dressing in frilly little dresses then maybe you should hold off on hormones and definitley surgery.
/quote]
well I think the 4/5 years is a little long but I go along with you on the dressing and say that men who dress male should hold off the E and surgery.

I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful. I didn't know how to use PMs on this forum. But I've avoided seeking help so often, not just on TG related matters, and letting things skip by, for fear of reactions...I don't want to do this anymore. Each person's decision is their own in the end. I can't and won't oblige anyone to do or not do anything. But as I stand here, from what I see with my limited knowledge, I can't help but worry. Sorry again for my rude act before. 

I'm glad you shared your story. I think detransition stories are quite intriguing. However, I agree with everybody else that you shouldn't have name dropped Elijah like that. It was pretty rude of you.

I've doubted my identity before, of course - as male and female. However, that was more of a "why transition if I'm too girly to begin with" doubt. I didn't see why I couldn't be happy as a female even though I am feminine. When I was younger, I played with Barbies and had all girl friends until I was in 3rd grade and then I had almost exclusively male friends.
Hell, as a matter of fact, if I didn't hate wearing make up, dresses, or skirts, I could be a drag queen.
I don't see myself as shallow - though I don't know what your definition of shallow is.

I was going to type more but got distracted and forgot what I was going to type.

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 10, 2010, 02:06:14 PM
But if you are dressing in frilly little dresses then maybe you should hold off on hormones and definitley surgery.

Right, because "real men" can't wear dresses.  I know that once I'm on hormones I'll (most likely) feel more comfortable to wear the frilly stuff.

Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 02:21:43 PM
I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful. I didn't know how to use PMs on this forum. But I've avoided seeking help so often, not just on TG related matters, and letting things skip by, for fear of reactions...I don't want to do this anymore. Each person's decision is their own in the end. I can't and won't oblige anyone to do or not do anything. But as I stand here, from what I see with my limited knowledge, I can't help but worry. Sorry again for my rude act before.

Let's get one thing straight here. It is not your place to tell Elijah either publicly or by PM that you have doubts about his transition.

Don't you dare pile your crap on him!

Transition, don't transition, have a foot in both camps if you choose but keep your unqualified opinion about another guy on here to your damn self.

Guys who really are trans face enough hardships without someone showing up playing your game.

Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 10, 2010, 12:31:26 PMI think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery.

I disagree.
That's just excessive.

I do not believe that there should be a "real life experience" requirement for hormone therapy simply because most people don't pass, and it's bloody humiliating to be in that position.
I do however think that there should be a number of therapy sessions with a set aim, instead of an "x number of weeks/months" in therapy requirement to access hormones requirement, and a 1 year RLE (minimum) before surgery.

Bluetraveler, i am sure you meant well and only had the best interests of everyone at heart and i totally agree that for some, transitioning is not the answer they are looking for. However most of us have enough of a  brain to work out for ourselves if we are going thro a phase etc etc. I am really sorry if this next comment offends you but reading some of your first post made me think of a certain blogger that we have all had run ins with lately. Reading her posts was bad enough reading some of those comments on a supportive sight went beyond even her

Quote from: Miniar on September 10, 2010, 03:01:19 PM
I disagree.
That's just excessive.

I do not believe that there should be a "real life experience" requirement for hormone therapy simply because most people don't pass, and it's bloody humiliating to be in that position.
I do however think that there should be a number of therapy sessions with a set aim, instead of an "x number of weeks/months" in therapy requirement to access hormones requirement, and a 1 year RLE (minimum) before surgery.

I agree with you.

I knew all my life I identified as male, but didn't know it had a name or a cure.  I self-diagnosed in Feb 08, started seeing therapists in April 08 (and confirmed!), was on T in July 08, had hysto and top surgery in 8/08 and 12/08, respectively.  After 47 years it couldn't happen soon enough.  I jumped off the cliff and haven't looked back.

Other people like the slower, scenic route.  For me, living for years in that in-between state without hormones would have driven me insane.  Bad enough living as F, but to live in that limbo land would have been far worse for me.

Everyone is different.

Jay

Jay i feel like you.  I am almost 40 years old...just self diagnosed a month ago...starting therapy this month.  I can't wait to get it over and done with...to have to prolong it would be horrible. 

I too have always known...but didn't really think there was a way to change it.  I had already had consultations for breast reduction surgery but kept saying I was gender queer but the reality was I just didn't feel like I could do it this late in life.  After investigating and talking with my spouse....I decided I can't continue living as a female.  The disphoria is far to much and  just admitting and binding has brought me out of my depression better than any medication has done for years.

And how many of us older ones (Im 38) wish we could turn the clock back and have some of the life thats been denied to us? I wouldnt change a lot of things like my son etc but the chance to be me when i was 17 would have been so wonderful. Now although i ve started seeing a psychiatrist i face anything up to a two yea RLE before hormones will be given. I"m 38 for petes sake, every year added on is another year i slowly die

Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 10, 2010, 12:31:26 PMI think there should be at least a 4 year requirement of living full time as the opposite gender before acquiring hormones and 5 years for surgery. When I mean living full time I dont mean that you use the mens bathroom cause not everyone passes.

What you say makes not much sense if a person does mostly not PASS before hormones no matter what they try, but will pass once on hormones cause of their physical make-up. Cause you cannot experience anything other then than living as a transgendered person, which is much different from living as a person of your target sex. Many of your friends etc. will see or experience it as a constant role-play. Plus if the biggest problem with your birth sex is the way your body is, not the social side of it, then this won't help you at all.

And if your biggest problem is the social side, rather consider moving to a cool country where men and women are treated almost equal than transition.