Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 07:56:35 PM
Edit: ah, I used the term "potential transsexual" to mean a possibly transgendered person who might want to transition. I was under the impression transgender is the term for non-binaries and those before surgery and hormones, while transsexuals went through that.

No disrespect intended, and thanks for the clarification. Terminology amongst the trans community can get murky.

Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 04:01:59 AM

Meepit: I've never been a girly-girl, not an extreme tomboy either, but if I had to balance the two the tomboy side would definitely win. Most of the things I like are considered unisex, not that this has to do a lot with gender though. I'm also used, even more confortable actually, working in male-dominated spaces (like the physics department  ). My near-death experience was fundamental, but it did not appear out of the blue, it was the end of a long descent into depression that I'm finally getting over; I questioned myself daily, but always brushed it off. From what you say, I'd wait and think...

I HAVE thought, for YEARS  . Though your post brought up my doubts/impatience about transitioning, I actually had a reaffirmation of it being the right decision today (a common occurrence). It wasn't so much as a "questioning" thing, I was just remarking about how similar our paths in the past have been thus far yet our stories might branch off fairly soon. I had Polly Pockets too  but probably only because they used to be like Legos and were a gift not a chosen toy, I also had a huge crush on a guy back in 5th grade and we moved apart as well only for me to find out a few years later that I'm actually straight  I guess I was just pushed into the societal role of "girls like boys only" and I was only 11, but puberty was definitely a kick in the other direction. I've heard many stories of young boys dabbling with other boys as children only to grow up straight as a board so I don't think it's that unusual. What else did we have in common....well I've had a few near-death experiences as well (got hit by a car whilst on a bike), but no epiphany really. I've always been extremely sure of being male just lately things have been going downhill so I suppose every aspect of my life came under scrutiny as a result.
All in all, I don't think I said enough in my previous post to be a "potenial detransitioner" and the remark that you made that said I should "wait and think" I thought was a tad uncalled for as I hadn't provided enough information for ANYONE to determine what steps I should take next. I hope this clear things up though  no hard feelings from me. I was just a bit insulted to have someone who doesn't know me to start assuming I hadn't done my research (possibly similar to how some of the previous posters may feel).

That's completely crossing the line to mention someones name and how you think they aren't trans.  I personally cannot believe that someone would be so rude and insulting.  Whatever if this post gets me banned but that is complete and outright garbage. I advise you to edit your post

Quote from: sneakersjay on September 10, 2010, 07:57:44 AMI was actually hoping my therapists (yes, plural) would say I wasn't trans, as yes, transition is no easy task.

For a little while, I was hoping that my therapist would be able to "cure" me. But, seriously, forty years of being male in my head...that's hard to argue against. I realized that I wanted to be cured because I wanted to be comfortable, safe, normal--not because I was female.

Bluetraveler, I'm glad you found yourself, but I have mixed feelings about your original post. Few of us take this lightly, particularly those of us who have struggled with it for decades. I have heard that in some groups of young people, transition or partial transition is trendy. I don't know how true this is, but it points out the importance of a good gender therapist, particularly for young folks.

I frequently hear about the horror of discovering that transition was a mistake, but I don't think I've heard anyone say that some people have to transition to find out that they shouldn't have transitioned. I believe that this is true of a select few. We tend to look at detransition as a bad thing, but maybe for a few folks, transition and then detransition is the only way to find out.

It's something to think about, anyway.

Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 02:21:43 PM
I'm sorry about my carelessness about calling someone publicly, I should have been more careful.

You do know that you can edit your posts and get rid of the section that so many are complaining about?

Yeah ... if you had been lurking all this time and you didn't pick up on how people could take things the wrong way, then you probably haven't been paying too close attention, just sayin'. "A warning to all potential transsexuals" on a forum FOR trans people is a bit inflammatory if I do say so myself. You might have the best intentions and I do feel you actually are not transsexual/transgendered, but simply a "tom boy" as you put it.

I thought I was a tom boy too for many years, although at the age of three I was asking my parents why I couldn't pee out of my "thing". That was before anyone had explained the differences between boys and girls to me. I just knew there was something "wrong" from probably the word go. The only differences between being a tom boy and being trans, to me, is that I never identified as female. Not once in my life did I ever feel like a girl or a woman. People treating me as one early in life confused the hell out of me - not because I hadn't become aware of physical differences but because I just could not relate at all. My brain didn't function the same way or something. I approached problems differently. I said things that made other females I knew just stop and stare at me. I just acted differently. Up until about the age of 13 everyone outside of my family took me as 100% male and treated me as such. My parents knew about my "issues" (I had already been to therapy to get the "GID" diagnosis back then) and allowed me to "be myself" for the most part. I had no idea there was such a thing as transition. All I knew, is that I wasn't female, no matter how my body looked. It never had anything to do with some sort of metal issue about females being "inferior" (which imo is just a dumb notion anyway).

I agree with everyone else that calling out someone in particular was in bad taste because no matter what your intention was it IS going to look like you're trying to change that person's mind. But what really got to me in your story was this: "if you say and are convinced you are gender x then you ARE gender x, ignore all those who say otherwise or might question you" followed by, "only stepping outside of this dangerous narcissistic point of view made me realize that what I had come to label as my '->-bleeped-<-' was nothing more than the sum of my own internalized 'patriarchial' belief that female=inferior ... "

So yes, I took that to heart that you're actually saying that people like me have a dangerous, narcissistic view. I tell people all the time that the gender they are in their mind is what matters because I believe that. And that is an opinionated and personal statement but it's not exactly the same as calling someone narcissistic. And also, just so you know, I'm not in transition, I don't plan to be in transition or have surgery or take more HRT (had a short dabble in that to decide it wasn't for me - but it's not for me to decide for anyone else), but you know what? I'm still a dude. Through all the bull->-bleeped-<- I've been through in my life, I'm still me, and that me is male. On a daily basis I basically give whole cross sections of society the middle finger. It works for me. I've found a balance I can live with. It sounds like you also found whatever balance you can live with so good for you.

After being on this board for (I think) just over a month now I can tell the majority of people are taking their choices very seriously ... weighing options ... and yes, some are having doubts. But everyone at the end of the day needs to make their own path in life. By shouting, "THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!" I don't think you're going to do anything but rub people the wrong way. However, by simply coming on and telling your personal story about how you discovered you were not actually trans I think can be an insightful thing that most people don't ever get to see. And then we all could have walked away by just knowing your story, not getting whipped up or offended by some of the other things you've said.

Thank you so much for posting this story of yours. It's great that you did it as it must have taken strength. You are right in that not a lot of people consider such things, they don't actually sit down and think about what they want. And the danger with a lot of FTMs is our need to rid ourselves of everything feminine and only do manly-type stuff. I admit, I did a similar thing. I attempted to soak up as much info as possible, hence my reason for not being on here in so long, but at the same time, I never denied who I was.

What we need to understand about ourselves is that it doesn't matter if we are transitioning, we are still who we always were. A little different yes, but it should be for the better. We shouldn't have to change our interests and likes and such just to be the man or woman we're working to become. In fact, we should embrace it more because transitioning is about becoming who you really are, who we want to be.

This is also why I will be seeing Dr. Warneke before I actually go any further. I've been having myself called Tom for over two months now and I've been wearing a chest binder, but that's all reversible. ^^

Thanks again. I say a hug is in order? *Hugs*

PS. You should try and become more involved and then you can see what some of us really mean. XP It's always different on the inside than what appears on the outside. It's all good.

Quote from: Bluetraveler on September 10, 2010, 07:56:35 PM
: I was referring to a culture, from the country I come from (may it suffice to say it's european?), wherein males are considered superior

as a curious fellow european, may i ask which one?

Now that I have actually caught on to what's going on here, I will say that yes I still appreciate your story, but I don't appreciate you dumping this on Elijah. And women aren't inferrior to men in my opion, to me they are equals but that's just how I was brought up. I honestly want to say more to this right now but too dang tired and well I rather not say something I don't mean to say.

Hello from a fellow detransitioner!

I think our stories are important and while the Elijah thing was not necessary I cannot help thinking it isn't much different than the many people here who have said publicly or implied that "I'm not real" or "I'll just transition in the end anyway."

I hope you add to and benefit this community - its easiest to do when you share your own experiences with others and not try to show how others fit into your mold - let them decide that for themselves - it really is the best thing you can do for others.

That being said, glad to have you!  If you ever need to talk to someone who's been down and is walking the same path, my PM is open.

Quote from: Arch on September 10, 2010, 11:59:37 PM
We tend to look at detransition as a bad thing, but maybe for a few folks, transition and then detransition is the only way to find out.

I think that's true and I think no one has been damaged by seeing the world from the other side. At least not if they did not make physical changes.

One particular sentence from an MtF crossdressing reality show fascinated me a lot:
"What, as a man, have you learned from being a woman?"

I spoke to my therapist about regrets once and she said she can't remember actually meeting a person who flat out regretted what they went through. She have experienced role reversals and even surgical reconstructions, but they always said they learned a lot from their transitions and came out as more clarified persons.
I know about a Norwegian TV feature, which I unfortunately haven't seen myself, where an MtFtM explains that only after his second surgery he attained balance and happiness.
There has been stories about MtFtQ's http://www.thescavenger.net/glbsgdq/my-journey-to-getting-a-sex-not-specified-document-86598.html and even MtFtMtF's http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jul/31/health.socialcare too.

When that is said it is important to note that only about 1% of the people having SRS are going to regret it later acording to the most recent research.

Here's a question for those advocating long periods of RLE.. I've known I was a woman since the first time I dressed as one, 20+ years ago. However, due to having no idea at the time about the possibility of transition, I just jammed the idea "in the closet", jammed the door shut and refused to accept it. Now, 22 years later, with life experience, maturity and a whole lot of self examination I'm ready to accept the truth and seek therapy. For the last few years, I've dressed on the fem side of andro, and have not repressed my feminine nature. If my therapist and I agree that I am in fact trans, why should I have to wait for an extended period for HRT? The main reason that I've not dressed entirely feminine is that I simply would not pass.. I'm out to the friends and family that matter to me.. Why should I be forced to wait an extended period, or face the humiliation of being seen as a "man in a dress" just to satisfy the needs of those who are unsure and need their hands held?

Bluetraveler, as someone who is just starting their 'official' transition, I find your story both interesting and very uncool. It's not my place or yours to tell someone what to do. Having read the story, I feel you had a pile of other issues, not necessarily gender related, that you needed to sort out.

Well if you've been thinking about it for 20 yrs thats along time. I think that a 2-4 yr RLE was my belief on ppl my age under 18. when I think about things I tend to think about people at my age. At 30 yrs old you know what you want and take the risks to do so. I feel that a 16 year old kid that comes out trans and 3 months later starts hormones is bit soon. 3 months isnt a long time to suddenly decide to change your life and create irreversable effects. However if youve been living as male for 6yrs or so at the age of 16 I dont think its just a faze.

Quote from: mcalistershaun on September 11, 2010, 03:45:40 AM
Well if you've been thinking about it for 20 yrs thats along time. I think that a 2-4 yr RLE was my belief on ppl my age under 18. when I think about things I tend to think about people at my age. At 30 yrs old you know what you want and take the risks to do so. I feel that a 16 year old kid that comes out trans and 3 months later starts hormones is bit soon. 3 months isnt a long time to suddenly decide to change your life and create irreversable effects. However if youve been living as male for 6yrs or so at the age of 16 I dont think its just a faze.

I understand where you are coming from, but if I'd been able to start my transition at 13, I would have, no question. As evidenced in my case, there's a difference between knowing yourself and coming out.  Besides which, the SOC's, which should be followed by any medical professional currently dealing with a trans patient, state that the minimum age is 18. Also, the SOC's require at least 3 months of either therapy or RLE, not just 3 months.. If a therapist doesn't feel it's right after those 3 months they have the option of not making the referral.

Personally, I think that HRT should be available via Informed Consent. I can understand the requirement for therapy prior to GRS and some people might need it prior to HRT, but therapy shouldn't be a requirement for HRT..

Quote from: Fencesitter on September 10, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
And if your biggest problem is the social side, rather consider moving to a cool country where men and women are treated almost equal than transition.

I have to disagree with this pretty strongly as someone for whom the social side is as important as the physical side. Equal treatment doesn't erase social gender, nor does it alleviate my feeling that I'm on the wrong side of the divide.

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 11, 2010, 04:28:17 AM
Besides which, the SOC's, which should be followed by any medical professional currently dealing with a trans patient, state that the minimum age is 18.

Nope, 12 yrs for blockers, 16 yrs for hormones. 18 is only required for surgery.



Tippe

QuoteYou actually dare to equate your normal teenage soul searching and discomfort of the realities of puberty to ->-bleeped-<-.

You can't de-transition because you never transitioned in the first place.

I have to agree with you on this.

Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 10, 2010, 06:59:27 PM
I can't help but suspect that the OP is Dirt. 

I don't think so. Both writing style and intent are different, it's not filled with hate or despise but quite respectful to us, the spelling is better and the OP has a clear understanding of what transsexuality is and does not dismiss it as altogether inexistent. Also, the OP describes her experience and motivations as being hers and not everybody's. I think Dirt would lack the cleverness, stylistic writing skills and the necessary empathy to "pass" as someone entirely else in such a post, as this affords the skills of a genius and Dirt's usual writings show less "talent".

Quote from: RaeLikesTea on September 10, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Personally, I am very uncomfortable with the use of the phrase "potential transsexuals". The idea that being transsexual is a choice (suggested by the word "potential") does not sit well with me.

I don't see a problem there, "potential" can mean both people who are still considering whether they're trans and people who are still considering whether they'll transition or not.

The OPs detransition story was very valuable for me as it made me question myself harshly for a couple of days, trying to be completely honest to myself and to find out if there could be something like what she explained going on in my case. These days were difficult for me, and I came to the conclusion that no, but I think it is good to question yourself even if it causes some hassle for a couple of days. I'd love to hear from other detransition cases, as there may be other things mimicking transsexuality than those mentioned by the thread opener. I would also have loved to read such stories before starting T, but I could not find any at that time. So thanks again for posting your experience, Bluetraveler. I did not feel manipulated into feeling weird by your post, I just think it's important to question oneself from as many aspects as possible before it is too late, and I did not know that cases such as yours exist, referring to your motivation and how the "gender fog" got you.

Now about mentioning Elijah in the posting, I kind of thought ouch, not nice, and that a PM might have been better there, but judging this is none of my business (and I have no opinion about Elijah whatsoever anyway). So I just jumped in and informed him about the thread via PM so at least he knows what's going on here and can react. If it was me you had in mind instead of him, I'd be fine with getting a PM from you telling me about your worries, but very unnerved by an open mentioning of me.

Maybe moderators could go over this thread and throw out his name wherever it comes up, as it's been mentioned quite a couple of times yet? But that's not up to me to decide.

I know of another transsexual forum where it is forbidden to question anyone anyhow about them being trans or that you worry they might be on the wrong path or even that something they wrote seems weird to you in this respect, even via PM. I can understand why they have this policy, but this can be dangerous at times. E. g. when a female-bodied user explains that the main reason why they want to transition is that they are a lot into gay sex, especially of the kind depicted in certain mangas, and want to live that themselves and want T but only physical changes to the point where they look androgynous like in the mangas, and they have already started to transition. And you have to bite your tongue when reading this and cannot contact the person and ask them privately if they're really sure what they're doing - not because you're mean but because you really worry about them... I cannot look into anybody's mind and say they're trans or not, and some people just suck at explaining things in postings, but think being allowed to PM the person if their postings seem really weird should be allowed as some testosterone effects are permanent. 

General information: For PMs, click on "Members" above (between "Staff List" and "Log out", search for the member. You'll find an option to PM the person in his profile on the left.

Quote from: kyril on September 11, 2010, 04:32:35 AM
I have to disagree with this pretty strongly as someone for whom the social side is as important as the physical side. Equal treatment doesn't erase social gender, nor does it alleviate my feeling that I'm on the wrong side of the divide.

You're right here, I haven't written down specifically enough what I meant, it was more about cases when it's the non-equal treatment which annoys you.

I'm sorry I can't answer all the replies this thread has gotten now, maybe I will be able to this evening, but just wanted to say that if a moderator could remove all mentions of Elijah's name from this thread, that would be welcome from me. I didn't edit the original post because too many replies already mentioned it.

Bluetraveler,

I just hit on the "report to moderator" button of your last posting and written that you have a request to them there, so they will get your request. (Yes, I know, normally these buttons are used to report abusive or wrongly posted postings, but they're also very handy for things like this.)