I haven't had a ton of experience with normal daytime outings in my preferred gender role so this was somewhat a first for me. I needed to get some better makeup and add a couple of clothes to my wardrobe so I went with a couple of friends to Scottsdale Fashion Square mall. While I have no way of gauging every single person's glance at me and figure out what they were thinking, I got the impression that I passed quite well. I think the biggest key is to not overdo it. I have some friends who identify as crossdressers and they like to go out to the malls as girls but they get all caught up in the femininity that they overdo it and likely don't pass very well. I'm no expert but if you are a MTF transsexual who simply wants to pass unnoticed by people then dress as a casual female and try not to be too feminine as weird as that sounds. Some of my crossdresser friends will go out to a mall wearing extremely high heels, excessive makeup, jewelry hanging off of their arms, legs, neck, and anywhere else they can add it on, while wearing very flashy dresses. If you blend in, you pass better. I'd rather be seen as a tougher-looking girl who may be a lesbian than an obvious crossdressing male.

What I did was wear a basic pair of women's jeans, women's flat shoes, a basic amount of makeup, put my hair in a ponytail, and wore a simple top. Nobody at the Starbucks seemed to notice or care, and the same with the clothing shops including when I needed to use a dressing room. I'm positive some people figured it out but nobody really cared or stared long enough to create a problem. Unfortunately by the time I got to the store where I was buying makeup, the makeup I did have on was no longer looking good. My facial hair was suddenly well visible (even though I only shaved mere hours prior). I can thank that for the fact that here it is September 26th and it is freaking 110 degrees today (almost) with humidity making the cheap foundation I had on melt away like an ice cream cone in Arizona. On the bright side today's success is helping to build my confidence so I can gradually get closer and closer to full time living. The real killer is my voice but it seemed like I did have a fairly good handle on it and only spoke when necessary. Well, happy Sunday everyone.

You have discovered the secret of blending in.  Dress understated!  Minimal makeup.  I do wear heels sometimes but that depends on my mood.  And I am 5' 10", over 6' in heels.  The looks I get is because I am tall, and that is the only reason.

To add to it just a moment ago I went to Walmart to pick up a six pack of beer. Same clothes, same sytle, and I doubt anybody noticed anything (other than a girl being out very late at night).

I can't imagine a daytime temp of 110!  When it gets to 75 we are happy to get a cooling breeze.

I'm off shopping today and as usual will wear medium heels and nylons, skirt and pretty top, short and long necklace, dangly earrings, bracelets, nice amount of makeup and nice handbag, and five rings on my fingers.  My hair is streaky blonde.
Two buses each way, lunch in a nice cafe, an hour in the art gallery, pop into the town hall for the college student's piano recital.  Home by five.   Nice way to spend a good few hours.

In the stores I can chat about fashion and stuff with other women and if I want to try a dress or skirt on they just say of course there's the lady's changing room.

I really don't get the business of a transsexual wanting to be unisex.

QuoteI really don't get the business of a transsexual wanting to be unisex.

And where did I say or imply that? I basically said that if you want to pass as a woman it is much easier to dress and act as most genetic women do in the environment you are going in vs. appearing like a drag queen. For most daytime errands and outings at least where I live most GGs wear jeans and tops, little to no makeup, have flats or low heels on, and socialize in a feminine but not girly girl manner. Ultimately, you just have to do what works for you.

I also look at it from a practicality standpoint which is the exact same as most GGs do. When you go out for a night on the town then you might want to look and act girly, wear revealing attire, and a lot of makeup. When you go to the mall as I did today, restaurant, or similar venue, you may want to look somewhat cute and somewhat girly but if you dress like you would to the club in the evening, you are going to get over-noticed. Then you have the routine grocery shopping, taking the car to the auto shop, going to the bank, the post office, or the gas station. How do most GGs look? They certainly don't dress like drag queens or prostitutes unless that is what they are. Then you have to consider the time and day and neighborhood. I went to a Walmart at midnight in a rough area. The last thing I'm going to do is try to draw attention to myself. Ultimately it comes down to common sense. Passing is only a piece of the puzzle. It is one thing to successfully pass as a girl but then you have to consider what kind of a girl you are passing as. I would not go into that Walmart at midnight wearing a mini-skirt and 6-inch stilettos (unless I wanted guys and the store security to think I was a prostitute). Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Sure, I have the freedom to wear just about anything I want but that doesn't mean those choices lack consequences. If I'm presenting to a job interview I'm going to have to be a bit choosy about how I present. I may be girly-girl with my girl friends but I'm not going to be that way when I'm pumping gas at a 7-11 in the middle of the night in gangbanger-ville. Everything has a proper time and place. Enough said.

there is a school of thought, borne out by statistics, that lowlifes don't target highly visible women but prefer to attack the more mousey specimens - their mouseyness being seen as lack of confidence and hence easier targets.

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 27, 2010, 11:23:01 AM
there is a school of thought, borne out by statistics, that lowlifes don't target highly visible women but prefer to attack the more mousey specimens - their mouseyness being seen as lack of confidence and hence easier targets.

Perhaps. But just being female is enough to make one a target. Females of all types wearing all styles of dress are victimized. I doubt a rapist can tell whether an 80 year old grandmother looks mousy or not.

There will always need to be a wise balance between exercising your personal freedom and adapting to your surrounding environment. Take men for instance. A man will act one way with his beer and pool buddies and a completely different way at work in front of his boss and another way around a girl he is interested in. He might wear just a tank top and shorts to the pool hall, a coat and tie to work, and a basic collar shirt and dress slacks to the restaurant. I don't see why it wouldn't be different for women. A girl may want to dress like a hooker in the bedroom in front of her lover, wear a nice sexy but appropriate dress to the evening party, wear a basic business suit to work, a cute top and jeans to the store, and an old grubby shirt with torn jeans when doing dirty work around the house. Usually one extreme or the other is bad and anyone should have some sort of happy medium. If you take personal freedom to the extreme you could get discriminated against or even killed. If you take blending in to the extreme you never get to be yourself.

What Lilac said makes no sense. In order for a criminal to attack you the first thing they need to do is notice you. If they don't even know you are there then they have nobody to attack. Most criminals do prey on those they deem weaker. It is a lot easier to attack a woman wearing high heels hardly able to balance and in an outfit that restricts fast movement than a woman in a shirt, pants, and sneakers. Since part of my day yesterday included a midnight trip to Walmart, I obviously considered these things. I need to re-empasize here that I'm posting this in the RLE forum for a reason because there is a major difference between a crossdresser getting dolled up for a fun trip out shopping than a TS who is running required errands and needs practice passing. Lilac's example seemed rather irrelevant. I'm not getting dolled up for a crossdressers' shopping outing, I'm simply trying to live my life as a female.

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 27, 2010, 11:23:01 AM
there is a school of thought, borne out by statistics, that lowlifes don't target highly visible women but prefer to attack the more mousey specimens - their mouseyness being seen as lack of confidence and hence easier targets.

OMG, since when is dressing up or dressing down an invite to be attacked?!   Honestly, what world do you live in?

Quote from: Hermione01 on September 28, 2010, 01:28:06 AM
OMG, since when is dressing up or dressing down an invite to be attacked?!   Honestly, what world do you live in?

the real world.
where i work in an office in local hospital.

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 28, 2010, 11:31:41 AM
the real world.
where i work in an office in local hospital.

So you work in an office in a local hospital. 

Okay, so how does this fit in with the numerous posts you make with the wildest generalizations I have ever heard? 

You have said mousy women are more likely to be attacked because they dress in jeans, tees and little makeup.   

You have said there are men who get vaginas who are called manginas.    

You have said that ts women at your gender clinic 'don't dress much female' and were 'nasty' when you pointed out to them and were surprised by their reaction. 

There are heap more real world ideas of yours that I haven't bothered to mention, but I can be rest assured that you will still keep inflicting them upon us. 

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 27, 2010, 03:15:01 AM
In the stores I can chat about fashion and stuff with other women and if I want to try a dress or skirt on they just say of course there's the lady's changing room.

I really don't get the business of a transsexual wanting to be unisex.

Hate to burst your bubble but I sometimes shop at some of the more exclusive stores in my location and I always get offered the ladies change room, even though I'm pre-HRT and quite obviously look like a guy.. I also get the same reaction in some of the more common chain stores..

If you want to go grocery shopping dressed in a manner that screams "LOOK AT ME!!", that's up to you, but no GG I know would do it, unless they were dropping in to pick something up on their way somewhere.. Most GG's I know will dress as appropriate for the situation, they have no need to flaunt their apparent femininity all the time..

I regularly wear jeans and a nice top, it's far from a unisex look. I think maybe it's time to take the blinkers off and go cash your reality cheque..

Let's get back on track here. If someone wants to be noticed everywhere they go that's on them. The reason I posted this was to share my experiences of going out during the daytime doing regular things and trying to pass. In other words, I'm discussing strictly the ability to pass here. Passing as a ciswoman does involve emulating things ciswomen do. There are times ciswomen want to stand out an be noticed but that is at the party or the nightclub, not at the post office or the auto shop. That is why there are times where you will pass better if you do femme it up (at the club) and times where you will pass better when you dress casual in jeans, top, and flats (at the grocery store). I'm certainly not an expert and am just sharing my limited experiences here. What I did worked. I went to Starbucks and did not notice any odd stares and I was greeted very professionally by the staff. I went into two clothing stores one of which I went in the dressing room and again nobody cared although maybe a couple of people may have noticed but it still made no difference. I went and bought makeup and deliberately revealed to them I'm trans so that I could try on and purchase a product that would work well to cover a beard-line. They went well out of their way to help me. At the Walmart later that day I got referred to as "she" and "her" several times when the clerk was directing another customer to get behind me in line. I'm no expert again but am sharing that the casual look did work for me. I could have gone out in a flaming red dress and drag queen-level makeup. It may have worked but I doubt it and I never tested that. If that worked for you then that is great.

I will continue to post future experiences because we all learn when we give and receive knowledge, information, and experiences.

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 27, 2010, 03:15:01 AM
I can't imagine a daytime temp of 110!  When it gets to 75 we are happy to get a cooling breeze.

I'm off shopping today and as usual will wear medium heels and nylons, skirt and pretty top, short and long necklace, dangly earrings, bracelets, nice amount of makeup and nice handbag, and five rings on my fingers.  My hair is streaky blonde.
Two buses each way, lunch in a nice cafe, an hour in the art gallery, pop into the town hall for the college student's piano recital.  Home by five.   Nice way to spend a good few hours.

In the stores I can chat about fashion and stuff with other women and if I want to try a dress or skirt on they just say of course there's the lady's changing room.

I really don't get the business of a transsexual wanting to be unisex.

Same reasons anybody else might want to be unisex.

Lots of girls behave unisex without the desire to ACTUALLY be guys.... like, for instance, me, lol. 

I do it because I like the practicality, I like the style, etc.

I don't get the business of people wanting to play dress up.

To each their own...*shrug*

Glad it went well for you Britney

EDIT: I have removed post.  I'm sorry for being snidey.

Cool down people or I will lock the thread.

There is no reason for personal attacks or being 'snidey'. Britney posted about a nice day out.  Many TG  people want support and stories about how we present in public.  This is an important topic for many newbies. Daily acceptance is important. I will not tolerate any personal attacks.

Please think before you post. An insult is an insult even if you did not mean it.

Cindy James
Moderator

Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 26, 2010, 11:35:24 PM
You have discovered the secret of blending in.  Dress understated!  Minimal makeup.  I do wear heels sometimes but that depends on my mood.  And I am 5' 10", over 6' in heels.  The looks I get is because I am tall, and that is the only reason.

My aunt is around 6'3 and she's biologically female.

Quote from: Nero on September 27, 2010, 01:36:10 PM
Perhaps. But just being female is enough to make one a target. Females of all types wearing all styles of dress are victimized. I doubt a rapist can tell whether an 80 year old grandmother looks mousy or not.

Right on, Nero.  A dirtbag is a dirtbag is a dirtbag.  Water is wet ... the wind blows ... dirtbags are lowlives.  Many of them need the slightest provocation and sleazedome engages them on auto-pilot and bad things happen.  I've know several cops over the years, and they will tell you many of these guys (... some women like this but way, way more guys ...) are hopeless and cannot be changed.  Sad, but true.