Hi folks,

sorry another long posting.

I went through lots of shrinks' literature the last couple of weeks. Some of it is okay, most of it ist demeaning.
Well, some of the literature suggests tests which I find ridiculous but have a great impact whether you get allowed hormones and operations or not. So here I go:

i call them "->-bleeped-<- tests" as they're not useful in any way but may help you get through the bull->-bleeped-<- if you know how to avoid the traps there.

Much of psychoanalysis is plain esoteric bull->-bleeped-<-, so you needn't take that seriously.
So if you get to deal with it in tests, here's my suggestions:

Well here are my biggest warnings if you have to deal with "scientists", that is, psychologists.
1. "Draw a person" Test
You get a pencil and paper and have to draw a person, whole body.
Draw a person of your own gender! Thats very important. If you think you're a female, draw a girl. And vice versa.
If you feel you're a male, draw a man. Don't draw a guy in a dress/dresslike exotic attire, with long hair or something like that, as shrinks are not all multicultural and can figure out you just drew a chinese emperor or someting like that. Also don't think the shrink knows everything about your sub-culture. E. g. manga style male figures may get confused as being "angdrogynous" or "female", which may make shrinks think your own inner self is like that. So whatever you draw there, make it compatible to your shrink's culture.

Your shrink probably knows nothing of your subculture. The person you draw in the test is supposed to represent yourself. Which I think is ridiculous anyway to presume, especially as hobby drawers tend to depict the latest motive they got used to draw. And people without any drawing skill draw awkward people anyway. Moreover, whatever movies you've seen the day before may influence the kind of person you'll draw there. And very unskilled people tend to draw what they at least manage to draw, no matter if it represents them or not. Add in the stressful test situation, and you know what I mean. The Draw-A-Person-Test is completely useless in a stress situation.

So my advice is, boycott this test, but only indirectly so that you don't annoy him_her, and don't complain about its stupidity as it might make the shrink angry at you as they might have spent lots of time and/or money learning about this test. Best way to boykott the test without annoying the shrink which comes to my mind is to tell the person you just drew a person you drew the last couple of days in your free time. Like, your sister, friend or whatever asked you do draw birthday invitation postcards. So you did this with a motive you agreed upon, and of course, this was the motive you used in the shrink's test. 

Draw a person of your gender, and you're fine. Or draw the person (oft your own gender) and tell tham that you heard the person's gender whas used in evaluation of your own gender, and that you're nervous about doing it right. Which means for the shrink - this person is cooperative, but we cannot really use the test. This will probably piss them off, though, and lead to hate towards yourself.Oh yeah, and don't draw a human-animal mixed creature or a fantasy creature such as a faun, elf, centaur, gnome etc. This is considered as a hint of psychosis. Which is stupid if you're into the role-playing fantasy scene anyway and so this is what comes into your mind first.

This kind of tests are stupid as it's a stressful test situation for us as we want our goddamn hormones and/or surgery so the test's result are almost uselass anyway. But at least some kind of results are important to the shrinks. The transsexual phenomenon has not been resolved yet.
And if you like to draw anyway, chances are high that you might draw you latest motive. So tell the shrink you like to draw or have been asked to draw (birthday invitation cards etc.) that. Well might be the reason why you drew a Santa Clause a few days before Christmas. Or whatever other christmas motive. 
. So many people draw  This may piss them off, but it's such an indirect attack they cannot say much against it.

Shrinks will try to get other hints of who you are by the way you draw the person. Which I find ridiculous. As in most cases, unless it's really extreme, the way to draw a person depends a lot on your skills.


2. Inkblot test
Then there's the Rorschach inkblot test, the most esoteric bull->-bleeped-<- I've ever heard about. That test is as esoteric as it can get. They present you ten pictures, you say what you see in them, and they score what you say, score whether you turned the paper around and put the paper sideways or not, how much time it took you to tell that stuff etc.

The best thing you can do there is to say thay you probably saw exactly the inkblots they present to you on the internet, one or two years ago. As there has been a copy-right problem and the Rorschach society tried to sue to not let it get public as it's very mportant for psycho-whatever analyses. And the judges told them to shove their arrogance down the a** (Well, literally) as copyright was over and the inventor dead long enough. Tell your shrink you recognize the exact picture he shows you, and that you saw it somewhere in this context. And that you saw some of the other pictures as well. Your shrink will probably put away this esoteric nonsense and be frustrated about it. As these pictures ares supposed to only work if you never saw them before.

Okay, so you got over the Draw-a-person-test and the inkblot test., boycott them but don't tell the shrink you think they are stupid. Many of these shrinks spent a lot of money etc. to get informed or get qualitied for that stuff.For the rest, just let yourself go.

Anyone else other esoteric tests to warn about?

Meeps! I draw furries and dragons! Does that means i'm psycotic?  >XD
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to draw a human, if i  have to do this kind of test someday.

Awesome, man!  Great post ... love it.   

Thanks for your feedback.

Well I think it's no use to confront a shrink directly if you want to get a paper and to tell them that their tests are bullsh't. As these are people as well, and may get hurt or feel attacked. Maybe they have been even trained for years with this bogus ->-bleeped-<- and deem it infaillable, and have spent a fortune on this training, and are proud of it. So don't say it's bogus.

I don't object to the draw-a-person-test completely, it can be useful for kids etc. But it's just stupid to use it on transsexuals to find out about their inner whatever, especially/plus for people who love drawing, as they'lll tend to draw what they're uesd to draw. If they ever try to use that test on me, I'll draw a happy chinese peasent (traditional style) and tell them that I draw birthday cards with this motive as people have asked me to use it, I did not want to mess anything up, so used this motive in this test.  In other words, boykott the silly test without making the boykott too obvious to the shrink.  As you wanna be cooperative, you know?

And the best defense against the Rorschach inkblot test is to say that you saw exactly this image somewhere on the internet. It will piss them off, as this holy grail of psychoanalytic evaluation *cough* can never be used on you again. But at least it protects you from being put into an esoteric machineriy, depending entirely on the psychotherapist's subjectivity for getting what you need - and you know how people deal with trans folks in general. 

If anyone knows about another silly bogus test cherished by shrinks, tell it here, please. I want this to become a good thread of "defending oneself against esoteric shrink stuff".

My therapist is an experienced psychiatrist, who knows exactly what these tests are worth - nothing.. So I've not done any such tests. And if I was presented with any, I'd make a point of telling my therapist there exact worth..

Having done some psych training, these tests are most often meaningless and with the longer Q&A  type tests, you can often work out what answers are being sought after the first few questions..

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 21, 2010, 11:50:15 PM
My therapist is an experienced psychiatrist, who knows exactly what these tests are worth - nothing.. So I've not done any such tests. And if I was presented with any, I'd make a point of telling my therapist there exact worth..

You've got a good therapist. My gender therapist (for the obligatory therapy here) did not test me on any of these tests as well. That's a good point about him. I don't know how I'd reacted if he came up with the Rorschach Test. Laughing out loud?

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 21, 2010, 11:50:15 PM
Having done some psych training, these tests are most often meaningless and with the longer Q&A  type tests, you can often work out what answers are being sought after the first few questions..

Exactly. I've often read that some of the tests cannot be tricked on purpose blabla, but honestly, you can trick each of them if you want and really know HOW to trick them.

Next point: IQ-Tests
Another thing I'm gonna do if I ever get confronted with tests, is to break down my IQ. In online tests etc., I usually score 135- 140 without special training, which is very high. I want to break it down to about 110, and I will train that in advance  so that my score gets to this point. Not lower than that, as it might become obvious then that I'm tricking cause of my university degree (with a very good graduation). Well I can still say I had a headache that day or just was sloppy, I'll have to look up which minimal IQ psycho shrinks expect from university people. Plus with the dissociative identity disorder I cured out, I cannot hide myself behind a normal IQ  score of about 100. You cannot get this disorder if your intelligence is average, most people with it are both very creative and very intelligent, so an IQ of 100 may make people suspicious. I gotta have an IQ of 110, not much higher, but that would help to make my score credible.

I want to score so that it seems still understandable that I have a university degree, but I don't make these people afraid or suspicious of me. Psycho shrinks won't be angry at me either if our scores don't differ too much (they probably have made this test for themselves). Though this is all stupid as the IQ doesn't measure much and cannot measure creativity at all, and many other gifts as well. But well... people... They love the IQ test and think it measures intelligence. Bull->-bleeped-<-.

People tend to feel uncomfortable or even hateful if you can beat them intellectually under certain circumstances:

a) you make them feel intellecutally inferior, whiich I really try not to do. Some of my best friends are mentally handicapped, and I love that they use their powers at full force - which makes them sometimes more intelligent and open-minded than "normal" people, who often tend to not wanna think. We're fine with each other as I treat them with the respect they deserve, other than most people do who treat them as childrien. And vice-versa, they respect me. Well and often, they get under-estimated as they can understand things on a level you woudln't expect as they often speak like children but can understand language like university students if you skip the special vocabulary.

But well I don't have much patience with people who don't use the brains they have out of laziness. For me it's mostly important that people use!!! their brains to learn and open their minds. No matter how much brain they have. And this is what usually both mentally handicapped people and creative geniuses do, other than "normal" people who usually hate to get disturbed in their routine and don't like to get into a situation where they have to use their brains to question pre-conceived opinions. I hate that, and I have no patience for it.

b) the shrinks don't like to deal with gifted people in general, or they hear about your IQ score and get somehow angry at you for it. It's annoying, but that's the reactions you might have to deal with. And with a gatekeeper, this gets really really uncomfortable. Or anybody else. This is why in my private live I usually don't tell people how I score, or that I went to university at all unless I know them well. We have a strong pressure for comformity here in Germany, almost like in Japan, and being different from other people is not well accepted by society, even if it's different by being highly intelligent. So you better hide it. 

I know a friend of mine who got into trouble in a completely different context with gatekeepers (not trans-related) cause of her extremely high IQ score (hairdresser, IQ 145), she scored extremely high and really got shunned for it among therapists. I know her very well, she's not telling stories, the IQ score she related is realistic, and yes, she's a hairdresser. So she got used to trick these tests down to IQ 110-120 as well in order to not hurt gatekeepers too much or make them feel too inferior. So she got the treatment she needed. Some people just don't get along with having to deal with a person who can trick them out, or who scores much higher in IQ tests than themselves. (IQ tests are silly anyway, as creativity etc. cannot be scored with them, I repeat that again, but many people don't get it so repetition is the best thing here to get rid of this bullsh*t.)

Sounds silly and arrogant if I say this here, and no one can prove that if I'm right as I'm just some Anonymous on the internet, but I'm really intellectually gifted. My greatest strength is not even the IQ stuff or logical thinking, but the creativity. I'm somewhere on the line between genius and normal, closer to genius. And this alone can lead to me being shunned at, and often did it at school. I got bullied, partially just because I was very good at school without learning much. And I don't want this part of me to interfere again with the gatekeepers. As I know most of them are not like me in this respect. I don't want them to get too aware of my gifts, and get angry at me and deny me what I need (the okay for the operations).

we don't do any of that in UK!
I rmember a guy giving me a the Rorschach for a job interview some years back.  I looked at it but said its juts blots then I turned the book around and said its still blots so he took it away and probably labelled me lacking in imagination.   

I was shown the Rorschach inkblot test when I was 11 and they were deciding if they would give me the bursary to go to boarding school.

I saw the rude bits. But didn't say anything because I was scared of being rude.

Great post Fencesitter.

My therapist is truly wonderful.  She has a lot of LGBT clients, and no wonder why - she is totally understanding, and knows exactly what she's talking about.  She knows the DSM criteria, and how to determine if they're present.  I've had four sessions with her now, but in Session #3, we briefly discussed HRT (I wanted to know if she was able to write the letter - yes she is), and she said she'll have no problem writing the letter when the time comes.  Just based on our discussions, and her observations about what I'm doing (I come dressed to the therapy sessions), how I'm handling things, and the layers of support I'm putting in place.  No psych tests of any kind, just wonderful discussions.

Quote from: Fencesitter on October 21, 2010, 09:21:57 PM
i call them "->-bleeped-<- tests" as they're not useful in any way but may help you get through the bull->-bleeped-<- if you know how to avoid the traps there.

...

Anyone else other esoteric tests to warn about?

Personally I have to say that any therapist that had started any of that nonsense with me would have been my therapist for precisely the amount of time it took me to politely get up and walk to their door, and not one second longer.

I guess its a good job I'm not a patient now, because I simply wouldn't have even thought about thinking about cooperating in the slightest! My attitude would have been, I know what gender and sex I am, and I don't need psychoanalysis. I'm not in the slightest interested in why I am this way. I just want medical help to be it more truly. So you either cut the psycho babble and concentrate on helping me in practical medical ways or I find someone else who will. This is not up for negotiation. I am the customer, you are the servant not the other way around. clear?

However I guess for some people if they do want counseling help to sort out their feelings then your advice may be helpful.

Thankfully I never actually came across that sort of treatment so the question is slightly academic for me.

Quote from: rejennyrated on October 22, 2010, 07:00:41 AM
Personally I have to say that any therapist that had started any of that nonsense with me would have been my therapist for precisely the amount of time it took me to politely get up and walk to their door, and not one second longer.

My attitude would have been, I know what gender and sex I am, and I don't need psychoanalysis. I'm not in the slightest interested in why I am this way. I just want medical help to be it more truly.

However I guess for some people if they do want that approach and need help to sort out their feelings then your advice may be helpful.

Thankfully I never actually came across that sort of treatment so the question is slightly academic for me.

My therapist and I are in agreement as to what gender I am and all we are really doing is discussing the issues I may face in transition as well as chatting about some other stuff that's happened in my life.. Some of it is hard work, but well worthwhile, as I leave each session happier and more content about who I am.. We all have some skeletons in our past that could do with a proper burial - and that's mostly what we are doing..

Try this:

http://theinkblot.com/

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 22, 2010, 07:10:31 AM
My therapist and I are in agreement as to what gender I am and all we are really doing is discussing the issues I may face in transition as well as chatting about some other stuff that's happened in my life.. Some of it is hard work, but well worthwhile, as I leave each session happier and more content about who I am.. We all have some skeletons in our past that could do with a proper burial - and that's mostly what we are doing..

Exactly Kelly - focused on the desired result and helpful - that's how treatment should be.

And yes I agree we do all have skeletons. I have had quite a few over my life, but I found that I prefer to bury them alone and without a therapist who, at the end of the day is only another fallible human being and has no real magic bullets. The best of them do want to help, but it is still you that ultimately has to do the work.

Quote from: rejennyrated on October 22, 2010, 07:23:32 AM
Exactly Kelly - focused on the desired result and helpful - that's how treatment should be.

And yes I agree we do all have skeletons. I have had quite a few over my life, but I found that I prefer to bury them alone and without a therapist who, at the end of the day is only another fallible human being and has no real magic bullets. The best of them do want to help, but it is still you that ultimately has to do the work.

Yes, it is up to me to do the work.. He just gives me the tools to do it and a safe place to do it.. Some of my skeletons are things that have caused me to deny and delay, so it's good to drag them out and bury them once and for all...

Yeah.. I got neither of the first tests mentioned, and I did pretty good on the Raven's IQ test with no negative effect to my treatment, in fact, I got to skip some months as I made a clear case for "transition is not one size fits all".

If given "draw a person" test, I'd draw whatever I wanted to, and with inkblots I'd probably end up saying "No, it just looks like a blob to me" for most of 'em.
And then I'd discuss their results with them.

Quote from: Miniar on October 22, 2010, 08:06:49 AM
If given "draw a person" test, I'd draw whatever I wanted to..........

or better yet, draw a stick figure (they never asked that it be realistic drawing).
>.>
<.<

I think cheating on such tests is stupid. If you really are TS, they will come to just this conclusion. And if you are not TS, you better don't try to fool somebody, cause in the end you're only fooling yourself.
Of course, it is interesting to see how psychologists work.

Wow. I didn't have to take these tests at all. I took two multiple choice tests about different questions (the MMPI and MMPI-2 tests). It helps analyze your personality, beliefs and where you are in life at the time. The results were actual quite accurate for me, except some of the questions could have had multiple answers for me. At any point it definitely showed I have GID.

I think if you have GID the MMPI and MMPI-2 tests are a safe bet. I can't vouch for the draw a person, Rorschach and IQ tests. Those seem kind of pointless for a GID assessment.

http://theinkblot.com

that isn't a proper Rorschach.  It was concocted by some idiot who had been weaned on sci-fi and satanic movies.
I couldn't tick any of the boxes for each figure. so it said I was lacking in imagination.

All these tests seem so weird. I wonder why some medical professionals seem solely interested in pathologizing us using methods that, ummm, well, seem like total crap. Seems like the best therapist will make you feel comfortable, let you talk about anything you want to, no matter how asinine, oh, and not run those crazy tests on you. The best part of having a good therapist would be that it should feel like a normal conversation, albeit one with really odd topics. A multiple choice or drawing test seems like a really poor substitute for conversation.