I'm not gay, maybe a little bi but mostly it's boystown all the way and as such Holland feels fairly secure around me. The problem I think is that sometimes there is quite a bit of transphobia in the gay community and quite a bit of homophobia in the trans community. If we were to get past this then I think that the LGBT thing would work better. Anyone who thinks that going it alone will stop the bigots from thinking that we are a bunch of queers is sadly deluded, better to fight this kind of prejudice together.

Personally, I'd describe myself as bisexual, but that might change when I start hormones.

There's a point I want to clarify though : because it is (by people who actually know anything about it) currently accepted that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different fields that influence each other without being "directly proportional", we can easily conclude to transsexuals having nothing to do with homosexuals. However, before making such a conclusion, one must take into account that :

-More transsexuals than non-trans people are homo- or bisexual. [I read that somewhere] While that doesn't prove anything, it appears to show a certain level of correlation between the phenomena.

-The "LGBT" movement is not only a movement to help people who love people of the same gender to be accepted. It's overall a movement helping "people who live sexuality in a non-traditional way" to find their place in society. So while the "T" is clearly apart from the "LGB" in its definition, I think the group still should be as is, as union gives power, and we share with "LGB"s a common need to be understood. However, our needs being different from theirs [they want to be accepted as they are, while many of us want to blend in the mass of the chosen gender], maybe making the "T" a new organisation separate from the "LGB" one, while retaining cooperation between the two would be best...

Before HRT, I was straight.  Married three times to women ( hmmmmmm   I guess you could say I am lesbian ). 
Now that I have been on HRT for the last 29 months, I am more attracted to guys.

So I am going to say my orientation is fluid.  How does this relate to the whole movement?  Because of one part of Transsexual, we become part of the whole Sexual Orientation Movement.  And that is the "sexual" part of the word.  But are we really part of the movement?  No not really.  Yes we get benefits from it, but we are really not part of it.

I believe female hormones tend to make the subject more sensitive to male pheromones while male hormones do the contrary. I think it's normal to be more attracted to the opposite sex after beginning hormone replacement therapies.

Quote from: A on October 26, 2010, 11:08:17 AM
I female hormones tend to make the subject more sensitive to male pheromones while male hormones do the contrary. I think it's normal to be more attracted to the opposite sex after beginning hormone replacement therapies.

Now I get why I could be bi and why nothing changes no matter what hormones run through my system. Can hardly smell anything at all, it's a disability I have.

Could be an explanation. I feel sorry for you ; I love smelling stuff that smells good

Quote from: A on October 26, 2010, 11:13:45 AM
Could be an explanation. I feel sorry for you ; I love smelling stuff that smells good

Don't feel sorry for me, I live in a place where chemical industry is huge, and sometimes it really stinks here, so I rather get envied than pitied for my disability. 

At first when I was around 10 I thought maybe I was gay, boys were cute as I got older and realized I was really a girl boys be came hot and I wanted one, but "strait" boys didn't like the idea so I found some gay boys and enjoyed that VERY much what woman doesn't want a man, so one of the men invited me to a party there were guys and girls doing everything to each other........... I REALLY LIKED that so if I had to put my sexuality into a box I would say I am Bi-sexual woman

My problem with gay men is that I don't tend to get errections. They usually think I don't find them attractive or that I'm not enjoying myself.

The truth is I do and I am. But not in the way they are with me.

I use to think that was a pretty good explaination. But lately, I'm begining to think that I may just be rather unusual in this area.

Or maybe I'm just unique. 

     I am strictly bi.  My wife and I often check out the boys at the mall.  I believe that if T's weren't listed under LGBT we wouldn't be listed anywhere, except in TV GUIDE under "Jerry Springer."  If a well financed, active, politically connected group strictly for Trans people (for the whole spectrum) ever takes off, I might well join and contribute time and money.  Until then, I'll stick with the group that looks best for accomplishing my goals.
     By the way, check out some of the political blogs with the problems that the gay groups are having with Obama.  Unfortunately, the truth is that the US is a center right country with an extremist religious core that sticks together and votes as a block.  We, however, fight ourselves.  You don't win battles or the war that way.  The Huffington has been reporting that in two years Obama has appointed more self identifying gay and trans people than Bill Clinton did in 8 years.  Which is  progress?- our people in important jobs, acting as role models, or enacting ENDA and ending DADT?  One is doable, while still being able to elect some democrats, while the other MAY be doable, but it ends up electing a right wing religious landslide.  I'll take the gains, hope for the rest. 

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on October 26, 2010, 12:39:01 PM
     I am strictly bi.  My wife and I often check out the boys at the mall.  I believe that if T's weren't listed under LGBT we wouldn't be listed anywhere, except in TV GUIDE under "Jerry Springer."  If a well financed, active, politically connected group strictly for Trans people (for the whole spectrum) ever takes off, I might well join and contribute time and money.  Until then, I'll stick with the group that looks best for accomplishing my goals.
     By the way, check out some of the political blogs with the problems that the gay groups are having with Obama.  Unfortunately, the truth is that the US is a center right country with an extremist religious core that sticks together and votes as a block.  We, however, fight ourselves.  You don't win battles or the war that way.  The Huffington has been reporting that in two years Obama has appointed more self identifying gay and trans people than Bill Clinton did in 8 years.  Which is  progress?- our people in important jobs, acting as role models, or enacting ENDA and ending DADT?  One is doable, while still being able to elect some democrats, while the other MAY be doable, but it ends up electing a right wing religious landslide.  I'll take the gains, hope for the rest.

I'll agree with the first part.

On the second part, however: The US is not a centre-right country. If you look at polls of people's actual opinions on issues, rather than what they think their political alignment is, you find that ~70% of Americans are in favour of repealing DADT. A slight majority, and an overwhelming majority of young people, favours gay marriage. A strong majority count an LGBT person among their friends.

The reason why these views aren't reflected in our laws is that the right side of the aisle is very very good at making a lot of people think of themselves as conservatives and think of conservatism as a mainstream point of view. They cast the right as the side of responsible, moral adults, and the left as a coalition of unemployed amoral hippie freeloaders. And they're very good at propaganda and messaging. But if you poll on issues without making it obvious that they're attached to partisan politics, you find the average American is more of a left-libertarian or classical liberal than anything else. Voter opinion on issues only tends to shift rightward when the questions are phrased or presented in a way that triggers them to remember Republican talking points and right wing messaging.

"Center-right country" is one of those talking points. It's designed to make moderates feel that conservatism is more in line with the respectable majority they like to think of themselves as representing, while also demoralizing liberals and left-libertarians by making us think we're a fringe minority who don't actually stand a chance of making real progress. But we do. Americans are behind us. They support equal rights and fairness. They're decent people.

Even members of the extreme religious core you describe are more diverse and complex than a lot of media analysts like to think; white evangelical youth are only mildly more conservative than their peers, black and Hispanic evangelicals are very complicated and not easily assigned to any position on the spectrum, and Catholics - while their church is violently anti-LGBT - are actually reliably liberal and pro-equality in most areas of the country.

Completely, 100% lesbian...well there may be 2% that thinks some guys are pretty, but eeeeeeew...they smell funny.

Quote from: Kaelleria on October 26, 2010, 10:22:49 AM
I'm a girl... I'm attracted to guys ergo not gay. Simple as that. Being transgender has nothing to do with your sexual orientation.

Right....because we already didn't know that. Seriously though, as I said above, there are, I am certain, many people out there that see you right now or have seen you in the past as gay, regardless of your own thoughts on the matter. Furthermore, just because you don't see yourself as gay doesn't mean that that position represents the whole community.

Asking a question like how gay are we? is like asking how blue is the sky? or how long is a piece of rope?

The truth of the matter is that while ->-bleeped-<- is indeed, because it concerns gender identity, different from the issue of sexual orientation, to say that the two concepts are totally unrelated is not only naive but a down right lie. The two are intrinsically interrelated, both in abstract psychological terms are well as practical social terms.

To the vast majority of people in this world, gender identity and sexual orientation go hand in hand. In simple economic terms it makes absolute sense for us (all trans people, be they straight or gay, bi or asexual) to be apart of the gay/queer community. They have the numbers. They have the strength. And in that case it makes perfect sense to piggy back on their structures and feed off their energy to further our own causes. I would rather the trans community be the T in LGBT than on its own.

So, whether we like it or not, and whether we view ourselves as gay or not, we all have been, are, or will be in the future the victim of gay discrimination. Thus, any benefits that can be gained for gays 1) impacts on us directly (because many of us identify as gay or are seen as gay by society) and 2) impacts on us indirectly (because more gay rights will make it easier to gain trans rights further down the line).

To try and create a wedge between ourselves and the gay community would not only be disingenuous but would be down-right suicidal.

I have to disagree : for me, personally, the US are a semi-extremist right-oriented country. Not the people, the laws. Whenever identifying a country as right-or lift-oriented, I never think about the people : even if in some Middle-East country 80% people are against forcing women to veil themselves, if the law still forces them to do so, I will regard that country as one who forces women to veil themselves, independently of people's opinion.

It's the same with the US : even if many people are for left-oriented measures, for me, a country where (in part of it) gay marriage went from legal to illegal, where the constitution guarantees the right to carry a killing instrument at all times, where the rich are advantaged, where you actually have to PAY for the hospital (well, less since some law passed I hear) and where the government will hardly help you if you're unable to pay your small 2-room apartment will always be a very right-oriented country, unless those laws change.

I agree with much of what's been said other than this though.

The biggest problem of the USA is, you have basically only 2 parties, which does not offer much choice. Which seems weird for Europeans, we are used to have 3-10 parties in the parliament depending on the country and year.

Well and then the USA went on shunning the UdSSR for having one party instead of two, and we Europeans were like - well, they have just ONE party LESS than the USA, and that's why they hate the UdSSR and think they're disgusting? This has even become a joke in Europe. "Why do the Americans hate the Russians?" - "Cause the Russians have one party less than the Americans."

Okay I'm exagerating here, but I know that there's something wrong with your political system which almost does not allow any other party to come up, it was an agreement between the Republicans and the Democrats and together, they settled the law about 100 years ago or more. I read it up but do not remember it in detail. Well, however, it would seem weird to me to have basically only the choice between two parties. (Our German system is horribly flawed at well, in other ways, but I'll talk about it another time, and at the moment, at least we have 5 parties to choose from. They're almost all horribly corrupt, but well at least it's a choice. E. g., for transgender rights, the Linke (left party with a left extremist wing, least corrupt), the Greens (leftist ecologist party, somewhat corrupt) and the FDP (Liberal economists, they'll sell our rights for money at any time how, most corrupt and amoral party of our country) are best.

Best wishes

Robin

Actually there are several parties in the USA... But the Republicans and/or Democrats always beat everyone else out during elections and one or the other end up running the show 

I'm going to flat out say that I have no concrete idea as to where I am on the sexual spectrum, since at this point I really don't care, and everything I did in this past (trust me, not much, as I couldn't stomach it) was under the assumption that I was in fact a straight male... well, I know that for one, I never felt male, and I assumed that being in the role of a straight male, would make me feel male. God knows that and my vast array of compensation methods didn't work . For now I identify as bisexual since I now am starting to find males attractive too. Before HRT, or in the first 5 months, I would've probably described myself as lesbian. I'm still watching my sexuality evolve as time goes by. I really don't care where I end up on the spectrum in regards to sexuality. When it comes to where I live, which happens to be Canada, no one really cares if you're L, G, or B.

Quote from: Miniar on October 26, 2010, 09:18:34 AM
Pansexual.

I'm into humans.

Quoted because I agree.  I'm pretty much this, though I do have a preference when it comes to look (though that won't stop me dating just about anyone).

Anyway, I feel very little acceptance as me within the LBG community, at least the community in my area.  The people at the group I belong to are a lot of fun, but they really need to read the literature they bring to the group about the Trans community instead of just handing it out.

I'm bisexual. To be more precise, I don't care about my partner's sex or gender, in theory, any extreme or mix-max works for me (though I care about their looks).

However, I don't want to call myself pansexual, as I'm still into looks, and as I got so much ->-bleeped-<- thrown at me as a bisexual before I knew the other term existed that I don't want hide away under the "pansexual" label. It's difficult enough for many people to get what bisexuality is, and well I tell that there's more genders than one once I've made it clear that bis are not greedy, immature, ->-bleeped-<-ing anybody, closeted gays, adventurous straights blabla... So first the bi 101, then - maybe - the trans 101. That's too much for many people's willingness to learn about new things anyway.

So yes, I'm part of the LGBT in both ways. Dated guys and girls before, and will probably date guys and girls in the future until I find the "right one". However, the B and the T tend to be shunned away by the LB... which I think is awful.

I was queer before I started transition, and queer I remain, regardless of gender expression.

And over the years I have known plenty of LGBTQ people of many flavors. My impression has been that we are all part of this big, colorful queer continuum and do indeed lump well enough together.