Now by this, I mean how has your outlook on things related to transition or gender changed over the course of transition?
Do you have different feelings on being out vs stealth* since starting out?
Meaning did you start out thinking you'd want to be 'out' and now feel differently or vice versa?

Different feelings on surgery?
Did you start out aiming for SRS/other surgery, and now it's not as important or vice versa?

What about feelings on manhood/womanhood?

Your sexuality? Did you start out thinking you were going to be a straight man/woman and it turned out differently? Or vice versa.

Or anything else related to transition, gender,etc?

Or even the kind of life you want to live as a man/woman?

I think a lot of us think we have everything all figured out at the beginning, and then once we're far into transition, things change.
So how have things changed...or not changed?


   * by stealth I mean with as few people knowing you were assigned differently at birth as humanly possible. There are always debates about what this means, but you get the drift.

Awesome post Nero! I'm still pre-everything but even just since coming out as trans and getting into therapy a lot has changed.

I used to think I'd never be able to be with a man because I never wanted to be the girl in the relationship. Now that I know I won't have to I decided that whoever I fall in love with is who I want to be with, man or woman. I decided eventually I will try to be stealth now.

Oddly enough I used to be terrified of needles. I would've rather been on meds for the rest of my life than take a single shot but now I look forward to my doctors visit and getting T-shots.

I started out being hopeful to just get on Testosterone now I'm saving cash to eventually get top surgery!

On an odd note a weird thing that really has changed is that I look forward to going to college on a campus instead of online and eventually maybe playing sports one I begin testosterone. So I guess a lot has changed already and I haven't really begun my transition.

Well, when I started transitioning I did not consider myself a woman. I thought of myself as genderqueer, androgyne. I needed to change but did not have a goal in mind. Then one day I woke up and realised that I was a woman all along. And suddenly I wanted SRS. I had never really considered it seriously before that, feeling ok with my genitals. But suddenly they were so wrong.

I never thought of myself as a lesbian to begin with though I am attracted to women. But it grew on me, and having been in a lesbian relationship for most of this year it actually has taken on more meaning than just who I liked to sleep with. There is a whole culture behind it and I really feel that difference between myself and straight women.

The last thing was before transitioning I had no concept of what it would be like living as a woman and totally feel that womanhood. I'm getting to a stage now where I feel like I am just a girl. Like I have fully integrated myself. It is hard to explain. I look back and It seems weird that I have not always been this way.

I still don't want to be stealth, though I could do it. I am attracted to the idea of stealth though, it would be so simple and easier to fade in. I could start a new job an nobody would ever know. But I really believe in being open about being trans. I still out myself a lot. But lately I find myself more reluctant to do it.

I never had everything figured out, I just took a ride and decided to see where it took me.

I always acknowledged that I might change my mind about certain things once I got farther along. But I have to admit that I never expected my lack of a penis (or my existing parts) to give me this much distress. I also never thought packing would be so important to me. And I never thought I would seriously entertain the possibility of bottom surgery. I finally decided that I'm not pleased with the state of the art, so I probably won't get bottom surgery unless something changes. But I don't have the money anyway.

I've always been outside of gay culture, and I've always wanted to be part of it. Now I'm part of a gay community. I still have massive guilt and various issues over being stealth in that world. BUT. If I had known how wonderful it would be, if I had been able to experience it for even half an hour, I think I would have found a way to transition sooner. Transition was a necessity when I finally did it; in my "what if" scenario, transition could have been a deliberate choice.

And now that people don't see me as female, all of my anti-female crap has come bubbling up to the surface. I thought I had taken care of most of that years ago. I'm distressed to find that it still lurks...no, it doesn't bother lurking. It's right up front, all mean and ugly, where I can see it. I'll need to do a lot of work to get rid of it.

In my head, I always saw myself as gay, even when I didn't know that term. That hasn't changed. But I did try hard to be bisexual. Any pretense of bisexuality has finally disappeared. I'm quite relieved about that, actually. Not because of all the anti-female feelings I'm experiencing right now but because it was hard to pretend to be bi when I wasn't.

I knew that I probably wanted to live as stealth as possible, but I never thought I would be so afraid of being outed to my new gay friends. That still bothers me so much. I was talking to one of the guys the other day, and he was telling me all of these things about women and typical female behavior that I didn't know. What a peculiar conversation. He was telling me, and I was saying, "No! Really?" because I didn't know. I thought, "I was raised as a girl; why DON'T I know this?" Well, I didn't hang around with girls when I was a teenager or a young adult, so I missed out on a lot of stuff. Then, listening to my friend some more, I started thinking, "OMG, he's going to think I'm such a liar if he ever finds out about my past. Well, I'll have to make sure I never tell him."

I fit in. I belong. They talk to me as if I'm a regular gay guy. They make assumptions about my upbringing.

In reality, I had a hybrid upbringing. I realize that now. I lived as a tomboy in real life, I rebelled against some female socialization, I didn't experience other girl stuff at all, I identified heavily with male book and movie characters, and I lived as a boy in my head.

What has stayed the same? I'm twenty-one months into my medical transition, and I'm still making major discoveries about myself and who I am.

Before transition I thought that I just wanted to be able to occasionally cross-dress publicly.  I identified as transgendered.  When I came out to a good friend early in the process, I told him I would not become a woman.  Gradually I realized I was transsexual.  Now I realize that I really am a woman, despite my birth anatomy and previous social role, and that in some sense I always have been one.

Before hormones I was a heterosexual male.  Now I'm a heterosexual female.  I can't explain it and didn't expect it and don't really care why it happened.  I have never had anything against homosexuality or pansexuality or bisexuality or anything else.  But for some reason I was and still am heterosexual.

I thought that I would always be 'out', but as I settle into living as a woman I find that I'd rather not be reminded of how I had to live before.  I don't expect to ever be stealth – for one thing, I'm really lousy at dissembling or lying to people – but I'd prefer to live as much in the woodwork as I can.  (I'm also a blabbermouth, so that works against even woodworking at times. )  My general attitude is that I will admit that I used to have to live as a man, but couldn't we talk about something more interesting?

I tended to think of gender as more fluid than I have found it to be, at least for me.  I am not a woman just because I can live socially as a woman.  A very select few have seen my new configuration, but it has made a huge difference in how I feel.  Why would that be if gender is merely a social construct?

I think transition changes us, just as anything of importance would change us – like going away to college, or moving overseas, or going into the military, or a myriad other things.  We don't know ahead of time the nuances of the changes.

- Kate

My outlook on life is generally a lot more positive...all of a sudden i feel like i have a future stretching ahead of me, rather than a stint in a grey dreary prision cell that would slowly leech every last bit of my sense of self from me. If i'm honest i'd pretty much got to that point anyway...I just didn't know who I was any more and couldn't maintain the act any more.

I always knew i was a woman, really from the onset of puberty but spent so long trying to cope with it or make it go away but now i've truly accepted it I feel a lot happier, and it's noticeable, people keep on telling me how happy I look. I know it's the right choice for me, and I'm truly happy that I had the strength to make that decision rather than take the only other way out.

I thought I'd be more chillax regarding stealth. I thought I'd be cool with some new people knowing about my past, if ever it came up.

Turns out I'm not at all ok with it, and I go as stealth as possible. I'm forever thankful my situation has lined up in a way that I can keep it to only my doctors, family, and an old social circle I rarely see (part good luck, part good management).

I never thought I had such an eccentric side, and I never thought I could or would be willing to let it out. I thought I'd have to put up a big macho act to be accepted. This hasn't been the case (though that said, I'm not girlie by nature - but I am a little more "eccentric" than your average blue-collar working man. I'd say I'm a typical straight acting gay man ).

I'm having the kind of life I thought I'd have. No big surprises other than how damn easy it's become. I thought I'd have more hurdles, to be honest.

One minor change. I went into this intending and expecting never to become involved with another person again - after all - I sure as hell wanted nothing to do with it before transition. That's still true, but I'm finding now I'm a least a little open to the idea of a not-so-serious thing.

On similar lines - I thought I was "in love" once before... but it pales in comparison to the intensity of what I feel now. Only after becoming comfortable in myself, have I developed the emotional capacity to truly feel for another (Though it's not something that's reciprocated. Doubtful I'd act on it, even if it was - so it's really a non-issue).

Everything else is exactly as it was so far. I'm a little surprised how much everything has stayed the same . For such a "big life altering change" it really hasn't had many unexpected effects.

Quote from: K8 on November 05, 2010, 06:49:05 PMBefore hormones I was a heterosexual male.  Now I'm a heterosexual female.  I can't explain it and didn't expect it and don't really care why it happened.  I have never had anything against homosexuality or pansexuality or bisexuality or anything else.  But for some reason I was and still am heterosexual.
- Kate

I think the reverse might happen to me; I've been thinking about it since I decided I would eventually, someday, have to transition and started looking for therapy. I perceive myself as bisexual but I can't imagine myself as a woman with a woman or as a man with a man.

When I first came out surgery was the only focus I had.
Now I am non-op. (a very complicated personal descision I do not expect anyone to understand)

I started out pre HRT Pansexual with a preferance for males.
Now I am pansexual with a preferance for females. (Seems I have always been primarily gay. lol )

Ironicaly I am now beggining to understand males. (go figure, I had to take E to figure out dudes lol)

I see gender as a spectrum now, I ussed to see it as a binary. (this is Sevans doing. Kinda hard to believe in a binary when one is loving and living with an androgyne.....)

and a ton of little things that are just to numerous to go into

A lot has changed. I always saw myself as a girl/woman, but it's only now I'm beginning to realise how much more I still have to learn, how much I missed while growing up. It feels like chasing a moving target, but in a positive kind of way, by being amazed how much you discover on the way.
Because my body is way out of proportion for being in the gg-range, stealth simply is not an option, but I'm ok with it, after all this is me and my life I'm aiming for, not perfection. But still I have to admit I'm a bit jealous to those for whom stealth is an option...if I could, possibly I would...
When I started counseling, somehow I managed to think that SRS was an option, not a certainty. Now it is a certainty which already has a date attached to it. Then I used to thinks FFS was not necessary, that I would be happy with my face just the way it is. But now I'm starting to feel the woman inside will need more than hormones to come out, and so I'm very seriously considering and researching FFS.
Concerning my sexuality, I always considered myself heterosexual when living as a male, since I only fell in love with women. Now however this all of a sudden does not seem to be such a fixed something. I'm not totally surprised, as I heard stories from others trans-people, and have had these sexual fantasies about men with me in the female role, but still I look forward to where this will lead me :-)
And even on a professional level, I have a feeling (for some years already) that what I was doing is not satisfying. (I used to be working in IT). Because of a move to the UK last summer (yes, even housing is changing), I now have the opportunity to try out something completely different, as I will try to work as a volunteer in a hospital. Somehow I'm convinced I will be far more happy working with people io machines.
Once you start changing fundamental things in your life, I guess everything is up for inspection, to see if it will be allowed to stay or go...

I have always know I was a girl/woman so that never changed.  I did have this fear that I would be stuck in that in between stage.  Then I seriously began to work toward SRS, and things started moving in that direction.

I thought I have guys figured out, having lived on that side of the fence.  And women were a mystery.  But at two years now, I find that women I understand better than I thought I did.  Guys for some reason have gotten to ether be dumber ( Sorry Guys ) or I now have to guess as what they are up to.

My Sexuality is fluid.  Which I guess means I am ether Pan or BI.  Depends on whether you think gender is binary or not.

I am sort of stealth.  I did not deliberately set out to be stealth.  It is just that I blend in and I don't wear a t-shirt that says Transformers sexual.

I just live my life as a woman.  Period.

Wow, great question!  I know a question is good when I think I could write a book about the topic.

So here we go, this is just going to be a brain dump so look out .

I used to be the most introverted person in the world, now I crave talking with people and connecting with them.  I would say that emotional connections with other people drive me more than anything else these days.  Prior to transition, I was highly emotional, for "guy" at least.  I pretty much gave most girls a run for their money in that department.  Now, I wouldn't say I feel emotional more often, because I would be a ridiculous mess of a human being if that were the case, but when I feel emotions, I feel them SO MUCH DEEPER.  I completely fall to pieces.  Along those lines, I used to think I was empathetic in the extreme but now, looking back, I would say I had absolutely no clue back then about the emotional connections people can have with each other.

Babies and other little cute things reduce me to goo, where I would have just gone "awe that's cute" before.  I can't stand a lot of the music I used to like, and I like music now I would have never been able to stand before.  I used to enjoy lively debates about interesting topics.  Now such things drive me from the room.  I used to be a lot more interested in how things work, now I generally couldn't care less.  A lot of that stuff seems stereotypical, I'm sure, but it's just what's happened I can't help it.

I've talked about my sexuality on susans before, here, and other places on this site somewhere lol.

In the end the most surprising thing to me about all of this is how much I feel like I'm a completely different person than I was a few short years ago.  I would have told you going into transition that I was a woman through and through, even back then, appearances notwithstanding, and after I got through the transitional phase of my life I fully expected that I would still be the same person underneath, though maybe looking different and sounding different.  But remembering the person I was back then, I know that I do not think the same way, I do not have the same interests, I do not have the same needs, and I don't even see the world the same way as I did back then.

I thought transition was a superficial undertaking; the act of simply making the outside match the inside, but that has turned out to be completely wrong.  Yes, transition is in part the act of making the outside coincide better with ones gender identity, but it also causes profound changes from within that make ones brain operate more inline with ones gender identity as well.  And, while it surprises me, in most ways I'm glad.  Before transitioning I couldn't figure out for the life of me why such superficial changes seemed to be so important to me, and now I know why... transition isn't superficial at all.  I think transition is every bit about getting your brain and its function to line up with your identity as it is anything else.

I don't feel like I'm literally somebody else, though.  But yet I find that while I want so badly to tell people from my past that I'm the same old me, I'm just sooooo different now that it's hard for me to even believe that anymore.

I have my ups and downs still. (post op post transition btw) part of that is from living in montana.  its a beautiful state but the ppl here in billings different. im looking forward to going to pharmacy school in portland and be somewhere a little more progressive.  I get depressed about being single and get lonely still, but who doesn't.  But overall completing my journey has made me a stronger, more determined individual.

Audrey: Sorry Nero but I had to say it. Oh my god pug!!!!! Your pug is gorgeous!

That being said, interesting topic Nero, everyone's responses are awesome.

I'm finally me.

It took forever (4 months to be exact) for my lower surgery to completely heal.

Like Arch, I just want to fit into someplace, and never have I ever felt more at home than with gay men.  I also fear outing in that group, even though I do have appropriate equipment.  I just want to live as me and not have the trans thing hanging over my head.

I'm talking to a guy right now that may lead to dating, but it's hard to do that whole get to know you thing without a bunch of awkward questions esp. regarding my kids; answering is difficult without outing myself.

I have never been happier in my own skin.  I just want to get on with the rest of my life as ME.

Jay

Quote from: Jen on November 09, 2010, 10:51:03 PM
I used to think I was empathetic in the extreme but now, looking back, I would say I had absolutely no clue back then about the emotional connections people can have with each other.

I know what you mean, Jen.  I would always wonder how women could sit for hours and talk to each other about their families and friends and others.  Now I find that I love doing it, too.

Quote from: Jen on November 09, 2010, 10:51:03 PM
I thought transition was a superficial undertaking; the act of simply making the outside match the inside, but that has turned out to be completely wrong.  Yes, transition is in part the act of making the outside coincide better with ones gender identity, but it also causes profound changes from within that make ones brain operate more inline with ones gender identity as well.  And, while it surprises me, in most ways I'm glad.  Before transitioning I couldn't figure out for the life of me why such superficial changes seemed to be so important to me, and now I know why... transition isn't superficial at all.  I think transition is every bit about getting your brain and its function to line up with your identity as it is anything else.

I don't feel like I'm literally somebody else, though.  But yet I find that while I want so badly to tell people from my past that I'm the same old me, I'm just sooooo different now that it's hard for me to even believe that anymore.

This has made me think.  I've insisted all along that I am the same person, just more free and repackaged, but I think Jen has a point.  For me, the differences seem subtle, but I'm struggling to figure out who I am now.  I'm the same person but in some ways very different.  I just haven't yet figured out what those differences are.

- Kate

Quote from: K8 on November 10, 2010, 08:22:02 AM
I know what you mean, Jen.  I would always wonder how women could sit for hours and talk to each other about their families and friends and others.  Now I find that I love doing it, too.

This has made me think.  I've insisted all along that I am the same person, just more free and repackaged, but I think Jen has a point.  For me, the differences seem subtle, but I'm struggling to figure out who I am now.  I'm the same person but in some ways very different.  I just haven't yet figured out what those differences are.

- Kate

Jen does bring up some very good points. I also think the change is more than gender/sex related. You can't go through such a soul searching experience and body overhaul without being changed inside. You're also now someone who has cheated destiny in a way. That has to change how you see the world and your role in it.

I agree with Jen, too.  I'd posted before reading responses.

I am still me, but I have changed.  Funny how you ladies like to talk; that didn't bother me much pre-transition, now it drives me crazy how much women talk!!  Today at the dentist I'm waiting to check in and the receptionist and a client (both women) were going on and on and on and on. And the women at work.      LOL

And I'm growing and changing by finally able to be myself, and to be seen as  myself.


Jay

Wow, that's a LOT of far-reaching questions! 

I "transitioned" in 1974 at the age of 24 so here are my responses from 'over the horizon':

-- Do you have different feelings on being out vs stealth* since starting out?

Stealth was the only option back then - it was expected and, frankly, the ability to go stealth was one of the requirements. I have never had any desire to be "out" (anymore than I am by participating in these forums) - I transitioned to lead a normal life and my desire has never changed.

-- Different feelings on surgery?

I always felt I was a woman/girl and lived part of my teens en femme. Being physically female was an absolute necessity for me to continue to grow and develop as a person and the years I was stalled (age 18 to 24) were absolute hell and led to me being dangerously suicidal. Had SRS not become available when it did, my funeral would have been in 1973.

-- What about feelings on manhood/womanhood?

I always felt that I was a girl but it was just a feeling, a suspicion. After SRS/transition I found out I was absolutely RIGHT! It fit like a comfy old slipper. Everything was perfectly natural and comfortable and I realized that prior to that I had been an AC appliance trying to run on DC - it just didn't work. For me, it is where I needed to be!

Having spent my entire adult life as a woman, there are many things that irk me, like discrimination in the work place, being dismissed by men, not being as strong as a man, and there are things GG's have that I sorely missed, primarily motherhood. There are things about men that annoy me - but they are just being men LOL! But where I am is where I fit. This is MY life and I enjoy it because this is where I "fit".

-- Did you start out thinking you were going to be a straight man/woman and it turned out differently?

ROFLMAO! OH YEA! I was absolutely straight as a teenager (attracted exclusively to boys) - which made it difficult explaining to medical practitioners of the 1960's that I WASN'T "Gay" LOL! Three years after surgery and after the dissolution of my first marriage I was drinking quite a bit and woke up one morning in the bed of another woman. Oh man did that screw up my head!!!  I had NEVER been attracted to girls but that experience had been enjoyable and I found myself wondering why the hell I had gone through all I had gone through to end up in bed with another woman! It took me awhile to realize that I  was finally comfortable with myself and that opened up other possibilities in my own sexuality. (I am still predominantly straight and don't find myself sexually attracted to other women but often do find myself emotionally very close with my women friends.)

-- Or even the kind of life you want to live as a man/woman?

Wow! That was the biggest surprise of my life.

All I ever wanted, from childhood on, was to grow up, get married, and raise a family. That was still my expectation when I married the first time, but life didn't go that direction. Through circumstances and fate, I ended up being a career girl and I went WAY farther in my career than I ever could have dreamed. It still makes me sad that I never got to live that dream but when I look back at my life in general all I can think is "WOW!"

This is an excellent thread Nero, I hope it gets a lot of responses. I'd be interested in reading them all.

I'm only partially through transitioning. But I can already say my outlook is much more positive. I cut my hair, got a binder, passed, and all of a sudden it seemed like 40% of my social phobia disappeared. I've discovered I actually don't hate people. I just hated how they acted towards me, and I hated the painful awareness of being female when around them. I hated that I couldn't so much as walk next to someone without wincing at how it felt to walk, at my moobs bouncing. So I was a recluse before, an antisocial hermit. I was sure I was going to go through my life totally alone. I was pretty sure I wouldn't live long past 20, and I didn't want to live much longer. Now? I'm still a huge introvert, but with a binder and some confidence born of people actually acknowledging me as male, I can cope with people. I don't walk into a room full of people, have them call my name, and feel like hitting someone or running away. I'm so much more optimistic. I still have clinical depression that can get really bad, but even with that I see myself living happily into my 70s, and I can imagine some future.

On stealth - I used to want to hide being biologically female from everyone. When I was young and imagining it, I was in another country and nobody knew. I wanted to forget all memories of puberty and pretend I never was a girl. Now, I've spent time learning about the trans community, reading about hate crimes, coming out to people and explaining things to them. If I could give up status of stealth in order to significantly help the community and make a difference in how people perceive transsexuals and gender in general, I would. I'm still trying to decide how, and to what extent I'm willing to reveal my past. And right now I just want the experience of stealth. But in the future it doesn't have to be necessary.

Surgery - I've always wanted top surgery. Nothing's changed there. Bottom surgery is something I never thought about before, but in sexual situations I've found some discomfort with my anatomy that I hadn't experienced before, and if the technology improves I'll consider it.

Sexuality - From puberty to the age of 13, I think I was mostly attracted to men. Then I was attracted to women, saw the lesbian community, saw that butch women were accepted, and decided I could be a lesbian. I have gone through periods of being primarily straight, but transitioning I find I'm equally comfortable with the idea of a gay relationship now. On T I expect I may even prefer one, since part of my hesitation before has been that I automatically compare myself physically to men, and when my body is so female I would feel ugly, even inferior next to a man with a fully male body. Having an ftm boyfriend has been a good compromise - I still see him fully as male and can connect emotionally to him in a way that with women is harder for me, and though he is physically much less feminine than me, I know he's facing the same kind of insecurities about his appearance. So I don't feel as threatened - that's probably some reflexive caveman instinct, now that I think about it.

With my life, I touched on it before. Until I decided to transition, or maybe later on when I was partially transitioned, I tried to think of my future as a woman and saw myself alone in an apartment after vet school with a cat. Then in the office, probably doing a brilliant job intellectually, but no interactions with coworkers. Those were the only images I could conjure. No friends, no family, no partner, no joys. I knew perfectly well I couldn't be in a relationship as a woman, and I was so depressed and cynical I foresaw myself cutting off all ties so I wouldn't have to deal with the panic in social situations. I could never function socially as a woman, so I actually reached a point where I tried to decide how I would methodically isolate myself while still maintaining income for survival. As I mentioned in my introductory post, I had no idea I could transition until last year, so this was me for about 5 years - I was suicidal when I was 12 and it didn't get much better from then on. I am entirely astonished I avoided killing myself. And now, I'm in a relationship partially due to being honest about who I am. I have too many ideas for careers and my future life to know what to do with, this is all a new world to me. I'd never thought about kids, marriage, who I would befriend, and now all of these possibilities are flooding me. I've switched from pessimist to optimist. Most importantly, I can imagine myself, the person I see in a mirror, as being in the future and connected to the world. So for me, transition has changed my life more than just my outlook. And as I'm sure has been the case for others before, I think it literally saved my life.