Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 22, 2010, 10:04:58 PM
because the same people will every now and then drop a male pronoun, often without even realizing they've done it. Someone I've known for a few months did that to me a few weeks ago, very clearly said "his" where she ought to have said "her"; I mentioned it and she didn't believe that she had even said that.

That's interesting. So you think dropping the wrong pronoun doesn't necessarily mean they're consciously identifying us as the wrong gender? I've had instances where everything seemed fine and I didn't feel like they were reacting to me as female until the pronoun. It catches me off guard (well it always does nowadays). But it'd be nice to think every 'she' isn't a total failure on my part.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 22, 2010, 10:04:58 PM
Welcome to the land of liminal gender. On behalf of all the forum members here at Susan's, I would like to wish you a pleasant stay, and a speedy and safe journey to wherever your final destination might be.

"Liminal" is a fantastic word that should probably be used more often in conversations about transgender topics.  I just wanted to say that.

Cool!

Thanks for mentioning the word.  I glossed over it and did not know what it meant.  Yes, I was lazy.


Word Origin & History (courtesy dictionary.reference.com)

liminal

1884, a rare word, from L. limen  "threshold." Related: Liminality

"liminal gender" == "threshold gender".

:-) true.

Nero,

I think it's often with people who read me as trans, but can't actually picture me as a guy. I know I've met people who are like that for me, so that's what I assume it is. I don't know how it would go for people who actually didn't read me as trans at all, because I don't really believe they exist, or it doesn't usually take long for people to put two and two together. ...  ... yeah, starting to research FFS. ...

---

Jen,

JEN!!!!! JENNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Jen is a fantastic person that should be present in more conversations about assorted topics. I just wanted to say that.

[Which is not to say that Nero's not fantastic -- it's just that of late I've seen him around a bit more than Jen. I suppose I've been scarce myself.]

---

Sarah,

You'll be fine, and you can do a lot with the pipes you've got. You can play most violin music on a viola -- it might not be ideal, but it works, it doesn't take too much effort (with some practice), and it sounds pretty darned good. (Voice geek point -- they're vocal "folds," not "cords," and certainly not "chords" -- unless you're doing Tuvan throat singing! -- and a huge part of what matters is the larynx, which determines the overtone sequence, and which I really wouldn't let a surgeon mess with.)

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 23, 2010, 12:17:15 AM
Jen is a fantastic person that should be present in more conversations about assorted topics. I just wanted to say that.

Lol thanks Alyssa. I vote for more of you, not me! <3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminal
Liminality, in the sense that I think the word applies to a lot of topics we discuss here, essentially describes the fuzzy boundary that exists between two defined regions.

Quoting Jen:

Liminality, in the sense that I think the word applies to a lot of topics we discuss here, essentially describes the fuzzy boundary that exists between two defined regions.

I'm pretty sure that I shave that area.

Sorry.

Cindy

Quote from: sarahla on November 22, 2010, 07:07:08 PM
JohnR:  I guess it does, slowly but surely.  I have to see myself that way and that is hard.  I keep seeing (and feeling) the male parts of me (between my legs), my male voice, and more important than body parts, my past, and it is hard to move beyond that.  Is it easier for F2M or is it the same there?

If a guy smiles and starts talking, I know he has read me as female. When women do it, it all depends on the situation at the time and what they do. There are certain looks women reserve only for other women.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 22, 2010, 02:22:09 PM
Women smile at each other, like the men do the head nod thing.  It is a way of greeting each other.

I wouldn't read any more in to it than it is a greeting.

Men don't seem to do this up in the Northeast. I moved here from the South 11 years ago and that is one of the first things I had to get used to.

But to the OP..I get a lot of warm smiles from women often enough. I think it is just a woman smiling at another woman.

Am I weird ? I perfectly understood "liminal" at first glance, but still do not understand "threshold", haha.

I have never nodded at another guy, nor did I realize that men do that.  On the female side, I also never knew that women smiled and looked at each other.  Where exactly have I been?  Maybe women smile at each other here in California, but men do not.  Maybe the nodding thing is a midwestern thing or something like that, but not a California thing.  Then again, I am not a guy, nor do I want to be one, nor do I join in any of the male bonding things, so why would I notice, and I have never until recently been included in the women's club, so why would I notice that.  Makes sense to me.

Quote from: Nero on November 22, 2010, 10:34:29 PM
That's interesting. So you think dropping the wrong pronoun doesn't necessarily mean they're consciously identifying us as the wrong gender? I've had instances where everything seemed fine and I didn't feel like they were reacting to me as female until the pronoun. It catches me off guard (well it always does nowadays). But it'd be nice to think every 'she' isn't a total failure on my part.

I have, on occasion, misgendered cis people. Including my mom. Sometimes, it's just a slip of the tongue.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 22, 2010, 07:44:01 PM
He, he, he although out the report.  Get it right you jackwagon.  It is she.

And who really gives a sh!t what the Houston Area Pastor Council wants, they can kiss my grits.

I don't know why, but "jackwagon" has me cracking up. I'm going to use that one in the future.

To be somewhat on topic...

I work in the medical field and interact mostly with females (nurses, receptionists) all day and constantly get/give the look/smile thing. It's amazing how much you information you can gather about a persons personality and mood in those few seconds.

~Sara

I get a kick out of the term "Jackwagon" also and I'm not sure why either... I think it just sounds entertaining for some reason 

I get a total kick out of 'Jackwagon", but of course I love R. Lee Ermey.  I remember his show Mail Call and many of his movies.  And Just a FYI, he is the real deal.

QuoteErmey spent eleven years in the Marine Corps, Two of which were spent as being a Drill Instructor at Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, India Company 3rd Recruit Training Battalion 1965-67, Arrived in Vietnam in 1968 spending 14 months attached to Marine Wing Support Group 17 and 2 tours in Okinawa. He rose to the rank of Staff Sergeant and was medically retired for injuries received. On May 17, 2002 he received an honorary promotion to Gunnery Sergeant (E-7) by Commandant James L. Jones, becoming the first retiree in the history of the Marines to be promoted.

Sorry for the derail.

Miss_Anthropic (Sara): That was nice to hear.  It seems that I need a couch to pick up all these type of things that I never picked up previously in life.

Thanks!

Thanks for the info Janet! I too love R. Lee Ermey, I didn't know that was one of his lines but now that you mention it, totally makes sense. Now I want to rent "Saving Silverman" to see him in action.

Quote from: sarahla on November 24, 2010, 12:53:43 AM
Miss_Anthropic (Sara): That was nice to hear.  It seems that I need a couch to pick up all these type of things that I never picked up previously in life.

Thanks!

Yeah, it's a bit confusing at first, that's for sure! I remember thinking along the same lines as you to begin with, but it slowly began to make sense. One thing I never really thought about was the times it's happened when I've been in male mode, I guess I "vibe" female at those times more than I had realized.

Don't fret, we're all going thru this puberty for the first time; lots of written and unwritten rules to learn, just takes a little time.

~Sara

BTW- I love that top!

Quote from: sarahla on November 22, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
Here is an example of why I am always afraid to use any restroom in public, especially the women's restroom.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7804014

Thsi woman, Majanae Chambers, looks to me like a normal female.  Her face is even quite feminine looking.  I can see why she gets harassed in a men's restroom.  That did not stop the police arresting her for using the women's restroom in a public library in Houston, Texas.  Granted that Texas is a Republican stronghold and home to the GOP, but even Republicans have transgendered individuals.  Besides, the mayor of Houston according to the article passed a non-discrimination policy including transgendered individuals and still she got arrested.

That being said, could not the same thing happen here in Los Angeles or anywhere else?

ABC still doesn't get it. They start out using the appropriate gender references then go to calling her a man. Please leave comments about that!

Quote from: Dana Lane on November 23, 2010, 06:01:37 AM
Men don't seem to do this up in the Northeast. I moved here from the South 11 years ago and that is one of the first things I had to get used to.

But to the OP..I get a lot of warm smiles from women often enough. I think it is just a woman smiling at another woman.

I grew up in the Northeast. People are generally more stand-offish in the Northeast, but I definitely recall the head-nod.

Quote
Miss Anthrop:  BTW- I love that top!

Thanks.  I like it too, just certain family members, when they see me wearing female anything go ballistic, and I am so not exaggerating.  If anything, I am being mellow and calm.  I like the top too.

I can hardly wait till I get hair transplant, some more money, my legs rid of hair, and start to wear skirts and dresses, and I do not mean at home.

I just do not see why I have to fight and claw my way to being a female, while others are naturally the way that they want.  I just want to be myself.  Every day is like a fight in one way or the other.

One day, I would like to see the opposite.

Small photos hide a lot of sin.  My arms and hands still have a lot of hair, just for whatever reason it does not show on the photo.  That is interesting, considering my face is free of hair (it still has peach fuzz, though) and my arms have hair, but on the photo it looks the same.

Being female used to be natural.  I remember once in junior high school (middle school now) I was sitting.  A boy came up to me and said that I am sitting like a girl that boys do not sit like that.    I can honestly tell all of you that up until that time, I never knew that boys and girls, at least in school, sit differently.  I just sat the way that it was natural for me to sit.  I paid zero attention on the topic, none.  I was happy to hear the remark.  I forget what I said in response.

Sadly, years of screwing myself by not being myself but rather living a lie takes its toll and not just in picking up small things like who should smile.  I just to be a much happier person with dreams of being a cheerleader (female of course), dancing, and pretty much being a normal happy girl.  Years if punishment, whether self inflicted or by society does not matter, takes its toll.

I see women around me being bubbly and happy and I am totally not like that.  I am not saying that all women are bubbly nor had I been born properly that I would have been, but the pain would not be there.

Sarah,
I had to learn how to sit, walk and talk like a guy. My dad keep on me, correction me, until I did it right.
In fact he even had to show me what kinds of toys, games and sports boys played.
I think because of it I still don't like most of them.
Dad made sure I had no dolls for me only toy guns, solders and the like would do.
Mom broke down and got me a plush monkey for Christmas but
  my sister and I fought over it so much that we ripped the ears off of it.
Sorry I'm off topic.
Jillieann