Quote from: Nathan. on December 06, 2010, 09:35:06 AM
...I've also felt I was fooling myself...

Oh, yea I've been there. I just think it's one of the many stages many of us go through trying to come to terms with everything.

Quote from: Yakshini on December 07, 2010, 01:25:36 AM
I have indeed feared that I wasn't "trans enough" to be accepted as such by the trans community, as I have seen lots of people being accused if it. I've had other trans guys subtly accuse me of being a "poseur" because I do not fit the stereotype of what a man/transman should be.

Oh I've also noticed, Bluetraveller and someone who shall remain unnamed blog's followers have been calling all the FTM's on YouTube FTBishies now because I guess they don't look masculine enough to her to warrant being trans.

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 06, 2010, 01:21:02 AMNo, but I have wondered whether I was human enough.

Glad to know there's another one in the club.

I'll take it one step farther and I've even wondered if I am human. I think some of that had to do with being trans but thinking there was no one else out there like me. No other transmen anyway, I knew transwomen existed. I sometimes think I suffered (and sometime still do) from periods of dissociation and depersonalisation.

Quote from: Shayne on December 07, 2010, 01:47:34 AM...Bluetraveller... has been calling all the FTM's on YouTube FTBishies now because I guess they don't look masculine enough to her to warrant being trans.

I may get crap for this but I have a theory. I wonder if she's convinced herself she isn't trans but still, subconsciously, thinks she might be.

I'm glad that people reflect and do self-exploration before transitioning. I'm glad when a person thinks they're trans but then discovers they're aren't. I'd hate to think a non-trans person would go through with transition just to find out it was a mistake and become miserable.

I can also understand them sharing their experience to make people think. However, she went too far. She generalized and stereotyped beyond belief. She felt her experience should be read by everybody (per her thread title) and that everybody should question their transness.

She also spread this mindset into every thread she commented in- even when it was off topic. I can understand helping those who aren't sure, but stop being patronizing to those who are sure. It got to the point of obsession.

In my experience when someone's like this it usually means they're questioning themselves but don't want to admit it (not just on trans things but anything).

Quote from: Radar on December 07, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
However, she went too far. She generalized and stereotyped beyond belief. She felt her experience should be read by everybody (per her thread title) and that everybody should question their transness.

Do you mean that she wanted everyone, even people who had already gone past the questioning stage, to question their transness? Because that's the impression I was getting...

Quote from: Radar on December 07, 2010, 08:29:03 AMShe also spread this mindset into every thread she commented in- even when it was off topic. I can understand helping those who aren't sure, but stop being patronizing to those who are sure. It got to the point of obsession.

I made the mistake of reading a couple of her blog entries. All this stuff about how dogmatic the people are on Susan's...we can't accept a dissenting view or any challenges to our obsessive transsexual agenda, stuff like that. I thought that was funny and exasperating. She was literally coming here and telling people that they should accept their bodies as they are; then, when people called her on it, she denied it and pretended that she wasn't telling people what to do or how to feel. And, of course, she reshaped the whole experience for her blog. Delusion? Dishonesty? A little of both?

This sort of over-the-top approach really makes me wonder about her motives and her true self. It was as if she wasn't really all that sure about herself and she needed the reassurance of "converting" other would-be trans people over to her way of thinking (otherwise, perhaps, she would continue to feel unsure about her own decisions?).

I'm still not sure I understand this topic. Maybe because it's late and I am so tired. I guess my main problem is that I am trans at all. I don't worry that I'm not trans enough; any trans is too much. But I suspect that this topic relates more to people who have a trans gender identity, and I really don't. Perhaps it would help if I did, because "male" is problematic; I still have a tendency to essentialize sex/gender, at least with regard to myself, so "male" isn't fully consistent with the body I have right now.

The body I am likely to have for a long time to come.

No.

In fact, I had hoped I wasn't even trans at all. That my therapist(s) would tell me otherwise and that there was some other way to alleviate the anxiety, dysphoria, and depression I'd felt.  Seriously, who would want to go through all of this?!

In fact, my first therapist told me to go back into the closet and stay there, because I would lose my job and my friends and my family and my kids and life would be horrible.  I still need to go back and inform her otherwise!  LOL


Jay

I voted yes.  I made it to my sixties before I transitioned.  I probably could have lived the rest of my life without transitioning.  That made me question whether I was "trans enough".  (I figured I was 'sort of' trans.)

But now that I've transitioned and know the pure joy of living as me, I have no doubt that I was plenty trans.  It's amazing how good we can be at repression and denial just to cope with what we think can't be changed.

One of my favorite quotes: "God save us from what we can get used to." - Walter P. Chrysler

- Kate

Quote from: Arch on December 08, 2010, 04:05:25 AMDo you mean that she wanted everyone, even people who had already gone past the questioning stage, to question their transness? Because that's the impression I was getting...

That's the impression I got from her too.

Quote from: Arch on December 08, 2010, 04:05:25 AMThis sort of over-the-top approach really makes me wonder about her motives and her true self. It was as if she wasn't really all that sure about herself and she needed the reassurance of "converting" other would-be trans people over to her way of thinking (otherwise, perhaps, she would continue to feel unsure about her own decisions?).

Exactly. Thank you for phrasing it better than I did.

Nope! I was the poster child for "trans" in the 1960's - classic Type VI in every way from birth onward and textbook outcome.

I  wish it hadn't been that way but that's the way it was....

Quote from: Kieri on December 06, 2010, 10:29:48 PM
Sometimes I wonder.  I've never been very masculine, but I don't think I've been very feminine either.  Family have noticed my depression in the past, but never knew why, and my parents don't believe me when I tell them the reason.  I don't really have an aversion to being male socially in the nerdy/software sphere, but I feel like I'm from a completely different species with males outside of it.  I do feel much more at home in groups of girls, but still, the social aspects alone don't justify transition to me.

I guess what's really pushing me is that I'm *terrified* of growing old as a man... or even of growing any more physically masculine than I already am.  The thought of it makes me sick to my stomach.  Even if I don't fit in completely as a woman socially, I can't bear wasting my life in a male shell.  I know that transition is what I need now, but in the past I've definitely feared that I wasn't "trans enough."

Your experience strongly resembles my own ... separated by a generation.  At first, I worried that I wasn't "trans enough" by conventional definitions and tried to conform to them.  One fine day I realized that trasness is a spectrum, we are all unique anyway and that there really is no standard of measure of transness. 

That was a very liberating day.  Never worried about it for another moment since then. 

I voted yes because i'm almost 39 and lived with this most of my life yet also managed to get on with my life and push the trans issue to the back of my mind. Well, sometimes i've managed to do that. Other times its been like a monster yelling and roaring to be let out of the cage i put it in. Now i'm doing something about it i worry that i'm not really trans- maybe i'm just a masculine woman who has talked herself into thinking shes trans. Then someone calls me sir and the feeling of rightness convinces me again that i'm doing the right thing

I got over it. 

I've had my moments.  Mostly when I was in my 20's.  I was always afraid I was stuck in some limbo.   Much like Alyssa, I got over it.

You shouldn't put any value in what other people define as Male, Female, Trans, etc.   What's important is how you feel about yourself and what you need to do to be happy with yourself.

That's what I've found, at least.

That seems mostly external, focusing on what other people think.  And it doesn't matter, you're exactly as trans as you are, no more, no less.  It's all you can ever be.

The only time you should really worry about 'not enough' is when you're boss doesn't think you're working hard enough, as that can have an immediate and as well as a long-range negative impact on your life.

I've worried I'm not masculine enough to be a trans man. It took me some time to realize that I could be a girly man and still be a man.

Quote from: Jeh on December 10, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
I've worried I'm not masculine enough to be a trans man. It took me some time to realize that I could be a girly man and still be a man.

EXACTLY RIGHT, BRO!  Personally, I think some girly men are pretty amazing:

Adam Lambert ... hot, hot!


David Bowie ... hot, hot!


George Michael ... hot, hot!



Estrogen IS making me like THIS kind of guy.  This gal LOVES girly men, so ROCK ON, bro!  You'll be awesome!   

Postscript:

Short clip of the original masters here, dude.  Check out lead singer, Robert Plant:

David Bowie=Always Awesome

I've never seen George Michael as a girly man, but I know him just from the 80's. I don't know what he looks like now.

not fitting in with the male stereotypes everyone i surround myself with believes in, makes me feel like i'm not "trans enough". because sometimes i like my girlfriend holding me, sometimes i cry watching movies, sometimes i feel vulnerable, sometimes i feel weak...and it makes me question if i'm not just "trans enough" but "MAN enough" to go thru everything i'd have to go thru to finally feel...normal.
Sometimes i feel just gender queer....or genderLESS.
not having bottom dysphoria also makes me think i'm not "trans enough". I dont think about what i have below the waist....it doesnt bother me. i think i'd live a normal happy life without changing my birth given genitalia. but i DONT think i could go on forever with the chest i was born with
i'm always thinking : what makes a man?

Quote from: Radar on December 10, 2010, 08:00:40 PM
David Bowie=Always Awesome

I've never seen George Michael as a girly man, but I know him just from the 80's. I don't know what he looks like now.

Actually, you're basically right about George Michael.  It does take a bit of imagination to see him that way.  Both he and Adam Lambert are openly gay, but that does not make them girly men.  Either way, his song kicks!   

Quote from: aidengabriel on December 10, 2010, 08:14:10 PM
...and it makes me question if i'm not just "trans enough" but "MAN enough" to go thru everything i'd have to go thru to finally feel...normal.
Sometimes i feel just gender queer....or genderLESS.

This, for me.  I wonder sometimes if I might be FTA instead of FTM.